LS7 Crankshaft rod journal width
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LS7 Crankshaft rod journal width
Hello Fellow Enthusiasts; Purchased a set of LS7 titanium connecting rods to use in a 351 Cleveland engine build for my 1972 Pre-L DeTomaso Pantera.
I need to know the inside width measurement of the crankshaft journal that the two connecting rods bolt to.
Trying to figure out how much machining is required on the 351C crankshaft being that the LS7 connecting rods are quite wider on the big end than the 351C connecting rods.
THANKS for you help!!!...Mark
I need to know the inside width measurement of the crankshaft journal that the two connecting rods bolt to.
Trying to figure out how much machining is required on the 351C crankshaft being that the LS7 connecting rods are quite wider on the big end than the 351C connecting rods.
THANKS for you help!!!...Mark
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Opelika Alabama
wouldn't you need the width of the 351 crank journal? put the two rods toghther and measure that?or look up the crank specs like anyone else would? Google it.
Last edited by CMY SIX; May 8, 2016 at 03:56 PM.
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I ALWAYS try & find my own information, prior to asking for other's help, especially considering non-helpful, smart-A** replies like yours!!!
I KNOW the width of a 351C connecting rod crankshaft journal & I HAVE the LS7 connecting rod width dimensions, I NEED the crankshaft connecting rod journal width of a LS7 crankshaft.
Obviously you would rather be a "Smart A** as opposed to being "helpful"...Mark
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Thanks Erick, I have that measurement...wanted to know with the connecting rod side clearances added..."What the factory machines the crankshaft journal connecting rod width at ?"...Mark
Racer
Joined: Apr 2016
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From: Arlington Wa
Sorry for side tracking but I am curious.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2014
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From: Kissimmee Florida
St. Jude Donor '16
I wish I had useful information but I don't, I am curious however as to how and why you are using LS parts in a ford engine? I grew up on fords and the Cleveland rods are pretty robust to begin with. The block is the weak link. Even without boring, torsional rigidity and blown head gaskets. That is why Jack Rousch designed girdles for the lifter valley and mains. I once had a 71 drag pack mustang that had a Tamm reman Cleveland short block. I put my quench heads on it and when I pulled the open chamber heads off, it had been bored 90k. I couldn't keep head gaskets in it.
Sorry for side tracking but I am curious.
Sorry for side tracking but I am curious.
I also thing the expansion at temperature of titanium versus steel is different so I think that might be why he's looking for the total width.
That's all just a guess. I don't have the answer for the size.
But also am interested.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 2013
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From: San Francisco Bay Area Ca
I wish I had useful information but I don't, I am curious however as to how and why you are using LS parts in a ford engine? I grew up on fords and the Cleveland rods are pretty robust to begin with. The block is the weak link. Even without boring, torsional rigidity and blown head gaskets. That is why Jack Rousch designed girdles for the lifter valley and mains. I once had a 71 drag pack mustang that had a Tamm reman Cleveland short block. I put my quench heads on it and when I pulled the open chamber heads off, it had been bored 90k. I couldn't keep head gaskets in it.
Sorry for side tracking but I am curious.
Sorry for side tracking but I am curious.
A stock 351 Cleveland connecting rod weights, 700 grams...a LS7 titanium connecting rod weights 466 grams!...that's a weight savings of 234 grams per rod...times that by "8"...and that's a reciprocating weight savings of OVER 4 POUNDS!!!!...now combine that with a lighter piston with a improved design/profile because of having a reduced compression height & using a lightweight profiled/knifed edged crankshaft & a 351 4V closed chambered heads, ported & polished & CFM flowed using titanium valves/keepers/retainers Jesel roller rockers, Morel bushed & pressurized oiled lifters, etc, etc & I believe I have a winning formula for a HIGH REVVING 351 Cleveland engine.
Had 4 351 Cleveland 4 bolt main blocks sonic tested for cylinder off-sets/shifting & cylinder walls thickness &choose the thickest most centered cylinder bores in a block.
The LS7 engine is a beautifully designed & crafted engines, just utilizing some of it's parts for my needs!...Mark
Last edited by sidepipe seeker; May 8, 2016 at 07:09 PM.
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Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 2013
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From: San Francisco Bay Area Ca
I think he might be trying to run lighter rods.Not more robust.
I also thing the expansion at temperature of titanium versus steel is different so I think that might be why he's looking for the total width.
That's all just a guess. I don't have the answer for the size.
But also am interested.
I also thing the expansion at temperature of titanium versus steel is different so I think that might be why he's looking for the total width.
That's all just a guess. I don't have the answer for the size.
But also am interested.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 287
Likes: 55
From: Arlington Wa
I'm interested in building the lightest reciprocating assembly I can for my 351 Cleveland build, & that process began with acquiring the lightest set of connecting rods, those connecting rods being LS7 titanium connecting rods.
A stock 351 Cleveland connecting rod weights, 700 grams...a LS7 titanium connecting rod weights 466 grams!...that's a weight savings of 234 grams per rod...times that by "8"...and that's a reciprocating weight savings of OVER 4 POUNDS!!!!...now combine that with a lighter piston with a improved design/profile because of having a reduced compression height & using a lightweight profiled/knifed edged crankshaft & a 351 4V closed chambered heads, ported & polished & CFM flowed using titanium valves/keepers/retainers Jesel roller rockers, Morel bushed & pressurized oiled lifters, etc, etc & I believe I have a winning formula for a HIGH REVVING 351 Cleveland engine.
Had 4 351 Cleveland 4 bolt main blocks sonic tested for cylinder off-sets/shifting & cylinder walls thickness &choose the thickest most centered cylinder bores in a block.
The LS7 engine is a beautifully designed & crafted engines, just utilizing some of it's parts for my needs!...Mark
A stock 351 Cleveland connecting rod weights, 700 grams...a LS7 titanium connecting rod weights 466 grams!...that's a weight savings of 234 grams per rod...times that by "8"...and that's a reciprocating weight savings of OVER 4 POUNDS!!!!...now combine that with a lighter piston with a improved design/profile because of having a reduced compression height & using a lightweight profiled/knifed edged crankshaft & a 351 4V closed chambered heads, ported & polished & CFM flowed using titanium valves/keepers/retainers Jesel roller rockers, Morel bushed & pressurized oiled lifters, etc, etc & I believe I have a winning formula for a HIGH REVVING 351 Cleveland engine.
Had 4 351 Cleveland 4 bolt main blocks sonic tested for cylinder off-sets/shifting & cylinder walls thickness &choose the thickest most centered cylinder bores in a block.
The LS7 engine is a beautifully designed & crafted engines, just utilizing some of it's parts for my needs!...Mark
So does anyone besides Edelbrock make aluminum heads for that Cleveland?
I know a lot of guys are going Windsor basesed, for weight and fit and also cubes. There's some big cube windsors out that don't weigh as much as a big block or the Cleveland. You don't see many Cleveland performance builds so I'm curious to see how yours turns out. Is there a Pantera forum your logging your build on that I can follow along?
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So does anyone besides Edelbrock make aluminum heads for that Cleveland?
I know a lot of guys are going Windsor basesed, for weight and fit and also cubes. There's some big cube windsors out that don't weigh as much as a big block or the Cleveland. You don't see many Cleveland performance builds so I'm curious to see how yours turns out. Is there a Pantera forum your logging your build on that I can follow along?
I know a lot of guys are going Windsor basesed, for weight and fit and also cubes. There's some big cube windsors out that don't weigh as much as a big block or the Cleveland. You don't see many Cleveland performance builds so I'm curious to see how yours turns out. Is there a Pantera forum your logging your build on that I can follow along?
http://www.chiheads.com.au/product-c...ylinder-heads/
http://www.strokerengine.com/ClevelandHeads.html
http://www.scmenginedevelopments.com/
Here is a DeTomaso Pantera website, although I won't be posting the build there, the owner of the website & myself don't share the same ideologies...so his "sand box"..."his rules"...
LOTS of engine builds on the website...just go to the engine forum section...
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve
Racer
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 287
Likes: 55
From: Arlington Wa
Interestingly the Australian market is in the cutting edge of 351 Cleveland advancements as well as others, here's a few links...
http://www.chiheads.com.au/product-c...ylinder-heads/
http://www.strokerengine.com/ClevelandHeads.html
http://www.scmenginedevelopments.com/
Here is a DeTomaso Pantera website, although I won't be posting the build there, the owner of the website & myself don't share the same ideologies...so his "sand box"..."his rules"...
LOTS of engine builds on the website...just go to the engine forum section...
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve
http://www.chiheads.com.au/product-c...ylinder-heads/
http://www.strokerengine.com/ClevelandHeads.html
http://www.scmenginedevelopments.com/
Here is a DeTomaso Pantera website, although I won't be posting the build there, the owner of the website & myself don't share the same ideologies...so his "sand box"..."his rules"...
LOTS of engine builds on the website...just go to the engine forum section...
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 617
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From: San Francisco Bay Area Ca
I have a 85 mustang gt that I started working on a few years back. I scoured Craig's list and found a guy getting rid of a bunch of Windsor based pieces because he was being deployed. I got a brand new set of Edelbrock performer heads and 2 Holley avengers, and a performer rpm intake. I didn't realize until I got home that the heads have the 2.02" intake valves. I was looking at them thinking they sure looked bigger than 1.94, I measured and to my surprise they were. I'll never be able to use them to the full flow they could deliver and I'm only running a E303 cam with 1:6:1 ratio rockers which nets a lift of 498", way under the capabilities, but when the cam comes on, my top end is amazing.
The 351C 4V closed chambered heads are the most coveted as a "factory" cylinder head along with the Blue Thunder & Holley "Strip" NOT "Street" Dominator intake manifolds...BOTH are sold for relative BIG $$$...about $500.00 apiece as the Holley Strip Dominator hasn't been manufactured for decades & the Blue Thunder are months back ordered!...Mark
Racer
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 287
Likes: 55
From: Arlington Wa
EASY way to distinguish 351 Cleveland heads from 351 Windsor heads is that Windsor heads use "6" valve cover bolts & Cleveland uses "8" valve cover bolts.
The 351C 4V closed chambered heads are the most coveted as a "factory" cylinder head along with the Blue Thunder & Holley "Strip" NOT "Street" Dominator intake manifolds...BOTH are sold for relative BIG $$$...about $500.00 apiece as the Holley Strip Dominator hasn't been manufactured for decades & the Blue Thunder are months back ordered!...Mark
The 351C 4V closed chambered heads are the most coveted as a "factory" cylinder head along with the Blue Thunder & Holley "Strip" NOT "Street" Dominator intake manifolds...BOTH are sold for relative BIG $$$...about $500.00 apiece as the Holley Strip Dominator hasn't been manufactured for decades & the Blue Thunder are months back ordered!...Mark
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I've had 3 sets of those heads. I put my last set on the mentioned drag pack mustang. I put a call into Cam Research and had them grind up a cam to go with the car. It had the 391 31 spline noduler 9", top loader close ratio 4 speed, 4V 351 Cleveland. My brother in law had taken it to the dealer and had a crate engine put in and I'd be willing to bet the core they kept had 4 bolt mains. The replacement had open chamber heads and I had my last fresh set of heads laying around so I pulled the opens, to my horror I found the engine bored 90 over. At least they were all 90 over. Tam was notorious for mixed bore sizing. I could not keep head gaskets in it. Just way to much material removed from the block.
I CAN'T believe A COMPETENT machinist ( the key word being competent) would even bore a 351C block .060 over!...let only .090
!!!Would be interesting to know the cylinder wall thickness at the thinnest point...
I wonder what the piston parts guy thought when you ordered a set of 351C pistons at +.090
...Mark
Racer
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 287
Likes: 55
From: Arlington Wa
Accepted/Proven & the industry standard is a 351C block should NEVER be bored more than .030!...especially with core shifting common from the factory...thus the reason/s I had 4 351C 4 bolt main blocks sonic tested & picked the best centered & thickest cylinder wall block.
I CAN'T believe A COMPETENT machinist ( the key word being competent) would even bore a 351C block .060 over!...let only .090!!!
Would be interesting to know the cylinder wall thickness at the thinnest point...
I wonder what the piston parts guy thought when you ordered a set of 351C pistons at +.090...Mark
I CAN'T believe A COMPETENT machinist ( the key word being competent) would even bore a 351C block .060 over!...let only .090
!!!Would be interesting to know the cylinder wall thickness at the thinnest point...
I wonder what the piston parts guy thought when you ordered a set of 351C pistons at +.090
...MarkLast edited by Rjhctrapp; May 11, 2016 at 03:23 PM.
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St. Jude Donor '11
