Looking for advice on how to bring up the car, in stages or go for broke.

Present state:
2012 M6 stock LS3

Purchased mods sitting in a pile in the garage:
Kooks 1-7/8" 3" catted x-pipe with AEM 30-0333 WB setup
Paxton Novi SL1500
Blower cam kit
Alky kit
ID1000s
Stage 1 fuel system.

I can install everything at once, go with a "safety tune" I've been working on to get going, then bring everything together slowly but frankly this scares
the **** out of me. I'm new to FI and HPT and not confident enough to do that so thinking about doing things in stages. Cold weather is coming and there's no rush.

Step 1:
2bar SD
Install headers and injectors.
Setup and tune fueling. WOT+PE using WB, LT+ST trims, etc..
Run this around a while, get confident with tuning, focus on efficiency, performance is secondary.

Step 2:
Install cam kit + blower. Since this is a flip drive, just leave the blower belt off for now.
Tune what's needed for the cam.
Run this around a while, focus on driveability, performance again secondary.

Step 3:
Install fuel system
Install Alky
Start bringing in boost
Probably have to garage run and tune this because of winter..

Step 4:
Alky + timing + boost....rinse and repeat

This might seem stupid to some who have done this many times before, but I get as much enjoyment as doing the work and mods as driving the end result. Just not sure of things like running the blower without a belt and want to avoid taking the car apart twice.

 

I would post this question also in the Forced Induction forum section. May get quicker and more responses there...

 

Too complicated. Install it all and get a decent base tune from ecs. Will be perfectly safe and later you can tweak it for a bit more power.

Flip drive doesn't mean you can run without a blower belt unless you have an electric water pump. Blower belt still runs water pump

 

Good thing I asked...Thanks
There's so many different approaches to setting up the car and setting the injectors up and well worth the $150 to get me going. Just need to pull the ECM out and send it since they use EFIlive and I have HPTuners

 

Same situation I had when I looked at ECS. I am on the VCM platform and they use EFI. If they took my ECM (which I would no not do with any vendor), then I would have a tune I couldn't view or manipulate.

 

You can view, manipulate, and do whatever with HP tuners even if they use EFI live to load a base tune. If you have HP tuners, there are so many base maps available just grab one of those. Setting up the injectors is ~4-5 tables, that you copy and paste in. <2 minutes to do it. If you can't goto IDs site, and copy and paste the injector data into your ecu, I strongly suggest not tuning it and getting a professional.

And sending your stock ecu in is no big deal. If you don't want to do that, buy a $50 ecu off ebay. I have a 2010 malibu ECU in my car off ebay. Basically all GM ecus are the same within the model years. There is no reason to hold on to your own as sacred or special.

 

From what I'm seeing, there are not only a few different ECMs for the same model (C6), but even different OS for the same ECMs which use different scales and limits. Some maxing out diff pressure at 640, others at 768. I'm at 768. Both versions have flow limits of 127 lb/hr so scaling down is needed. Best to do 50% on flow, doubling commanded AFR and halving IVT. And that's just one of the possible ways to do it. Is that the "best" way?, depends on who you're talking to. Some say don't scale and run 100% since the car will never see 127 lb/hr anyway. Seems like getting the injectors to work properly isn't a problem, selecting which approach to use is the confusing thing for me. Can't tell you how many times I've read up on something and understood it, then read something to the contrary saying something else was better...or understood the changes to the tune described on v2.x of HP tuners only to find a completely different approach was used in v3.x. Not wanting to become an expert or even understand every way to setup fuel and airflow, just want to fully understand the way my car is setup.

Since ECS uses EFI, they may set up something not visible within HPT and that could screw up tweeking the tune later with HPT. Just need to find the right HPT guy to start me going

 

You have <127lb injectors, so why are you even concerned if you limit is 127lb...? You don't even have to think about scaling.

They are not going to screw with anything that would be of concern.

 

My sentiments too. Mine is a 2009. From everything I've read (and I can relate to the conflicting reading sources), the ECMs in 09s were a transition ECM, then something different in 10 and on, so the 09s apparently are pigen holed; and, another reason I don't want mine out of the car and sent somewhere.

 

This is the way I understand it:
Scaling down 50% doesn't clip the max limit to 127 and gives the computer 32 values between 128kPa and 768kPa to work with rather than 20 values since everything above 508kPa is limited to 127 when not scaled. The computer uses interpolation to find the proper injector duty cycle between the 2 values and the 50% scaling provides more info to make the final injector duty cycle more accurate. The side affect of scaling is other tables like AFR and IVT need to be mess with.

Not sure if I got this right or need to start smoking weed again to full understand it, nor do I know how important the BS really is...Just know that different people set it up differently and everyone swears by their approach.

 

Thought I was going nuts seeing different settings and tables on other tune files supposedly for the same E38 ECM.. Thanks

 

Once again, you do not have larger than 127lb injectors, so there is no scaling needed.

 

No need to scale.

Even if the injector flow rate was too high, just double the stoich table and half the inj flow rate values and you're done. No reason to scale.

And unreal is right, you're making it way too complicated.

 

Not speaking for Phill. I appreciate the advice you guys are willing to give and always will, so please have patience and don't stop!!

I am an engineer like you are. The difference is, I am still on a learning curve and nowhere at your level. Like most engineers, until I am completely confident in what and, more importantly, WHY I am doing something, I will be cautious and won't go forward. Simply saying "step off the plank...no problem...you're not going to fall" isn't going to get me there. Overthinking stuff is the way I've learned everything in my career as a mechanical Engineer, and my way around cars. So...I APPRECIATE your patience guys...keep teaching!

 

Carson.. You're one of the few tuning experts I trust to take advise without questioning it. What you suggested, in addition to changing offsets and short pulse adder, is exactly what I did last week and thought I was done....Then I read this: http://injectordynamics.com/articles...ation-scaling/. From what I got after reading this is a lot more than 2x stoich needed to be changed and then started to question if I was in over my head.

Sounds like the info in that article doesn't apply to me and all I have to do is copy flow rate at 100%, offset and adder and it's good to go?

 

LOL. We so think alike

 

That is another way of doing it and will work, but unless you are maxing out something like the MAF airflow values then there's no reason to go through and scale everything. It's a PITA and you lose a lot of resolution on spark tables and everything else that references airflow. Just my take.

The double stoich/half IFR way effectively cuts the injector PW in half (when doubling stoich value) then doubles it when you half the injector flow rate, so it works out the same. 1/2 * 2 = 1

Multiple ways to do it.. either can work, this way is the easiest IMO and works for most setups. I like easy.

On some of the older computers the airflow limits were a lot lower so you'd see guys in the 600rwhp range maxing MAF airflow tables out and then they'd need to scale anyways. Not so much anymore as GM has higher limits now starting with the LS3's. They used to max out at like 512 g/sec. The limits are now something like 4000 g/sec which no one here is going to max out.

So, short version is either way will work, double/half is easier and a whole lot less chance of missing something, in my opinion anyways

 

Easy is good for me also. So let me see if I got this straight. The flow rates on IDs data are based on differential pressure across the nozzle. Since I run around 60 psi (Green arrow) flow is about 116 lbs/hr which is under the 127 lb limit for my ECM. I would start to get into trouble at 72 psi (Red arrow) because that gets close to the 127 limit so in that case I would half the flow and double the AFR without any other changes required.

 

You'll never actually get to the 72psi portion of the table, so in your case no reason to do either.

At absolute most you'd be at 58psi fuel pressure + say 9psi of vacuum = 67psi effective fuel pressure at injector tip. Even if you got to 14psi of vacuum that's 72psi at the injector tip so that'd be the most you'd ever see if somehow you saw a whole lot more vacuum than I do.

So, it doesn't really matter in your case. You can just put in the original 100% unscaled values and be good to go. Some of the upper cells in the table will be maxed out, but it doesn't matter because you'll never get there. They are really only used on setups with fuel pressure control modules that increase the base pressure beyond 58psi, but the tables are there regardless.

 

ECS has sent me a tune in the past that I could install with HP Tuner software.