Shavings in new engine
06-13-2017, 09:17 PM
#1
Shavings in new engine
Hows it going, guys!! Ok, so I have a 2008 C6 base. I just had a brand new LQ9 408 stroker built for it and had about 150 miles on it and it lost oil pressure. Luckily I was at a gas station and the warning light came on before I moved it, so I turned the engine off and called the shop that did the work. They came and picked up the car and after looking at it the mechanic stated that the pick up tube in the oil pan was almost stopped up with assembly lube and shavings.........So he cleaned the pick up tube and put it all back together, put oil in it and started the car and still no oil pressure. Now he states that the oil pump is bad. Now he has to replace the oil pump, and is going to charge me labor to do so.
I have multiple concerns here, first; is it normal for a new engine like that to have shaving that could possibly clog the pick up tube? Assembly lube and shavings? Mind you, EVERYTHING in this motor is brand new. All Texas Speed parts (forged internals) and a stage 5 cam, along with LS3 PRC heads. It has a 500 mile break in procedure and I HAVE NOT dogged on it at all. Second; the car has now been started 3 times for about 4 seconds each time with no oil pressure. Should I be worried about engine damage because of this? And third; should I be paying for labor for him to put a new oil pump in the car? He stated that it's not his fault that the oil pump went out, if this is the case, and that he's gonna have to charge me labor, $800.00. All said and done, I have now paid a little over $11k to have this build done. Please let me know what y'all think. The car is still in the shop and I'm wanting some feed back before I pick it up on Saturday. Thanks in advance.
I have multiple concerns here, first; is it normal for a new engine like that to have shaving that could possibly clog the pick up tube? Assembly lube and shavings? Mind you, EVERYTHING in this motor is brand new. All Texas Speed parts (forged internals) and a stage 5 cam, along with LS3 PRC heads. It has a 500 mile break in procedure and I HAVE NOT dogged on it at all. Second; the car has now been started 3 times for about 4 seconds each time with no oil pressure. Should I be worried about engine damage because of this? And third; should I be paying for labor for him to put a new oil pump in the car? He stated that it's not his fault that the oil pump went out, if this is the case, and that he's gonna have to charge me labor, $800.00. All said and done, I have now paid a little over $11k to have this build done. Please let me know what y'all think. The car is still in the shop and I'm wanting some feed back before I pick it up on Saturday. Thanks in advance.
06-13-2017, 09:40 PM
#3
CMY SIX, are you saying that after his job is done and the car drives off, that he can wash his hands of it and be done? This is a performance shop that I would hope would like a good reputation and would want to take care of their customers.
06-13-2017, 10:33 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
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You my friend are what they call "Between a rock and a hard place"
From what you have described I would be hard pressed to trust the same place that did the initial work. That sucks
Good Luck
NSF
From what you have described I would be hard pressed to trust the same place that did the initial work. That sucks
Good Luck
NSF
06-13-2017, 10:49 PM
#5
Race Director
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First things first..................... the correct engine assembly lube is compatible with engine oil, and would also dissolve and mix with the engine oil due to normal operating temperatures................
shavings and grease to plug up a pick-up tube indicate possibly incorrect assembly grease which didn't dissolve and mix, but may have "washed off" the components it was initially put on and then gathered in the sump where it may have become "picked up."
The "shavings" are worrisome. It is normal and natural to get some fine particles on a new build, but nowhere near any amount to plug up a tube, unless something drastically was wrong. Shavings typically are from abnormal "metal to metal" contact, and that should be relatively noticeable upon inspection.
As far as "calling a lawyer" it was meant in the manner so you can go after the shop who did the work to make sure it was done properly, and limit anymore financial impact on you.
Any guaranty or warranty? Need a few more details in that regard, but the shop should be responsible for their work, especially if it has been only 150 miles, and no abuse on your part.
He had to run it to tune it I would think, especially with the mods?
shavings and grease to plug up a pick-up tube indicate possibly incorrect assembly grease which didn't dissolve and mix, but may have "washed off" the components it was initially put on and then gathered in the sump where it may have become "picked up."
The "shavings" are worrisome. It is normal and natural to get some fine particles on a new build, but nowhere near any amount to plug up a tube, unless something drastically was wrong. Shavings typically are from abnormal "metal to metal" contact, and that should be relatively noticeable upon inspection.
As far as "calling a lawyer" it was meant in the manner so you can go after the shop who did the work to make sure it was done properly, and limit anymore financial impact on you.
Any guaranty or warranty? Need a few more details in that regard, but the shop should be responsible for their work, especially if it has been only 150 miles, and no abuse on your part.
He had to run it to tune it I would think, especially with the mods?
06-14-2017, 12:21 AM
#7
Here are some pictures that he sent me of the oil. The care already had a stage 4 cam in it, so there was no need for a tune, at this time. I will be getting it tuned after the 500 miles, though.
06-14-2017, 06:10 AM
#8
Team Owner
All the bearings/etc need to be pulled, and inspected or replaced. You have a major issue and something failed.
06-14-2017, 06:24 AM
#9
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
I agree; you have major issues. Also, you stated everything in the engine is brand new---except the car already had a stage 4 cam in it and thus no tune. How can you not need a tune with a built, new engine---am I missing something here?
And why did the NEW oil pump fail, if as you say, EVERYTHING in the engine being new includes the oil pump?
And why did the NEW oil pump fail, if as you say, EVERYTHING in the engine being new includes the oil pump?
06-14-2017, 08:11 AM
#10
Le Mans Master
Looking at that oil pan, that would freak me out if it was mine. This is far beyond normal.
06-14-2017, 09:12 AM
#11
Agree with all of the above and absolutely NOT normal...and type of guarantee or warranty? I always thought when you have a new motor that the oil pump was replaced as well??? I would have them inspect all the bearings as well and you should not have to pay the $800 for the oil pump.
Good luck!!!
Good luck!!!
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06-14-2017, 09:21 AM
#12
I agree; you have major issues. Also, you stated everything in the engine is brand new---except the car already had a stage 4 cam in it and thus no tune. How can you not need a tune with a built, new engine---am I missing something here?
And why did the NEW oil pump fail, if as you say, EVERYTHING in the engine being new includes the oil pump?
And why did the NEW oil pump fail, if as you say, EVERYTHING in the engine being new includes the oil pump?
06-14-2017, 09:25 AM
#13
First things first..................... the correct engine assembly lube is compatible with engine oil, and would also dissolve and mix with the engine oil due to normal operating temperatures................
shavings and grease to plug up a pick-up tube indicate possibly incorrect assembly grease which didn't dissolve and mix, but may have "washed off" the components it was initially put on and then gathered in the sump where it may have become "picked up."
The "shavings" are worrisome. It is normal and natural to get some fine particles on a new build, but nowhere near any amount to plug up a tube, unless something drastically was wrong. Shavings typically are from abnormal "metal to metal" contact, and that should be relatively noticeable upon inspection.
As far as "calling a lawyer" it was meant in the manner so you can go after the shop who did the work to make sure it was done properly, and limit anymore financial impact on you.
Any guaranty or warranty? Need a few more details in that regard, but the shop should be responsible for their work, especially if it has been only 150 miles, and no abuse on your part.
He had to run it to tune it I would think, especially with the mods?
shavings and grease to plug up a pick-up tube indicate possibly incorrect assembly grease which didn't dissolve and mix, but may have "washed off" the components it was initially put on and then gathered in the sump where it may have become "picked up."
The "shavings" are worrisome. It is normal and natural to get some fine particles on a new build, but nowhere near any amount to plug up a tube, unless something drastically was wrong. Shavings typically are from abnormal "metal to metal" contact, and that should be relatively noticeable upon inspection.
As far as "calling a lawyer" it was meant in the manner so you can go after the shop who did the work to make sure it was done properly, and limit anymore financial impact on you.
Any guaranty or warranty? Need a few more details in that regard, but the shop should be responsible for their work, especially if it has been only 150 miles, and no abuse on your part.
He had to run it to tune it I would think, especially with the mods?
No updated tune, just yet. The car had a stage 4 cam with a tune already in it, and it runs fine right now. I know it will need a tune after the break in period.
06-14-2017, 09:29 AM
#14
Agree with all of the above and absolutely NOT normal...and type of guarantee or warranty? I always thought when you have a new motor that the oil pump was replaced as well??? I would have them inspect all the bearings as well and you should not have to pay the $800 for the oil pump.
Good luck!!!
Good luck!!!
06-14-2017, 10:13 AM
#15
Race Director
Like it was said, between a rock and a hard place.
If the shop that did the initial work will not stand by any warranty ( was there one offered prior) I would seek a new shop out. Get your wallet out again and be sure to find a competent shop, it will cost though.
Gotta find the source of the metal.
Speed shops....usually hard to find a really customer oriented one. Seems like they usually will do the work but not stand behind i when it goes south because after all it is a modified engine. Kinda of a Catch 22.
They will come back and say in the 150 miles you abused it.
Usually with engine internal mods you are on your own, so it seems.
If the shop that did the initial work will not stand by any warranty ( was there one offered prior) I would seek a new shop out. Get your wallet out again and be sure to find a competent shop, it will cost though.
Gotta find the source of the metal.
Speed shops....usually hard to find a really customer oriented one. Seems like they usually will do the work but not stand behind i when it goes south because after all it is a modified engine. Kinda of a Catch 22.
They will come back and say in the 150 miles you abused it.
Usually with engine internal mods you are on your own, so it seems.
Last edited by Boomer111; 06-14-2017 at 10:17 AM.
06-14-2017, 02:15 PM
#16
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St. Jude Donor '05
Thats more than an oil pump problem who is this shop?
Id be dropping that thing off on their doorstop, get a dianosis from another shop and file small claims asap. Its cheap easy and usually effective.
This industry I tell ya...too many guys with tools and an internet connection learning at your expense.
OP just go file, they will put you off forever. Once they know you mean business they may change thier tune.
No motor needs a 500 mi break in either.
Id be dropping that thing off on their doorstop, get a dianosis from another shop and file small claims asap. Its cheap easy and usually effective.
This industry I tell ya...too many guys with tools and an internet connection learning at your expense.
OP just go file, they will put you off forever. Once they know you mean business they may change thier tune.
No motor needs a 500 mi break in either.
06-14-2017, 03:02 PM
#17
Team Owner
It also gets complicated if he provided any parts, or bought the motor elsewhere. If the shop sourced everything, and put together and installed the motor, they should fix the mistakes. If you purchased the motor, then installed it elsewhere, and put other used parts in it, your probably SOL unless it turns out to be some gross error situation.
06-14-2017, 06:55 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
The metal on the pump screen doesn't look normal.
Debris on magnetic plug doesn't seem ab-normal.
Grease/ assembly lube build up = BS IMO.
Post # 17 offers some good insights.
I would be hesitant to use the same shop base on reading this thread.
Good luck.
Debris on magnetic plug doesn't seem ab-normal.
Grease/ assembly lube build up = BS IMO.
Post # 17 offers some good insights.
I would be hesitant to use the same shop base on reading this thread.
Good luck.
06-14-2017, 07:20 PM
#19
Safety Car
are you NEW to the English language? his job was to deliver a running engine that one would hope wouldn't blow up any time soon, I'm saying I would sue him, 11 grand and they didn't hot tank the block before assembly? I know TS work, but if you get a bare block form any body you hot tank it first, that amount of crap in the pan means something wasn't done right! and who told you not to "tune it" after this work it gets tuned right away.
Last edited by CMY SIX; 06-14-2017 at 07:21 PM.
06-14-2017, 09:46 PM
#20
Racer
What color was the metal in the pan? Everything points to the main bearing. That motor will need a full rebuild to the bottom end either way with that much metal going through it. I would cut open the oil filter also.
Last edited by beavisr1; 06-14-2017 at 09:48 PM.