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Is it really that hard to change oil pump?

 
Old 06-18-2017, 11:17 AM
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rajahhindi
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Default Is it really that hard to change oil pump?

Hello Everyone,
I have a 2008 vette base with the wet sump. I am having a cam installed by a local performance shop. But since I live in Australia, nobody knows much about working on vettes. Anyway, the cam kit I got from the US included everything including the high pressure melling oil pump. I talked to the shop owner and he says the sump has to be removed to change the pump? I checked on this forum and previous threads said people have changed it without touching the sump and others by lowering the sump a small amount. What are the chances of damaging the sump gasket and/or pinching the pickup tube o ring? Is it really that difficult to do it this way? How many people would remove the sump to do it this way? I'm obviously trying to get out of unnecessary labor costs, if the risk of damaging either the pan gasket or the o ring is not that great? Thanks, Brian
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Old 06-18-2017, 12:11 PM
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you DO NOT repeat DO NOT have to drop the sump, it can/has been done with just the timing cover off, if they can't see how you picked the wrong shop. send me your email and I will send you a pictorial of a camswap including the pump change. and a Melling M295 would have been just fine for a new pump
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Old 06-18-2017, 02:15 PM
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Ya, no need to remove the oil pan. You will need to put some silicon on the lower corners of the timing cover where it seals to the block and oil pan cover. When replacing the oil pump if the pump is rotated into the the pickup tube snout you won't pinch the O ring. Just make sure it seats all the way. If you can find the "blue" colored O ring it's the thickest and seals really well. As CMY say's I would replace the factory pump with the Melling since your in there.

Hardest part of the job is moving the rack and r&r the balancer. Since CMY is sending the procedure, I won't go into it.

You should also replace your valve springs when installing an aftermarket cam along with (at least) 5/16" chrome molly push rods. Depending on the cam "size" the stock size (7.4) may still work if the cam is not too big and the heads haven't been shaved. But always be safe and check the length.

It's also a good habit to degree the cam (to make sure correct profile). Lot's of people don't with LS engines and get away with it though.

Good Luck!

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Old 06-18-2017, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bmfvette View Post
Ya, no need to remove the oil pan. You will need to put some silicon on the lower corners of the timing cover where it seals to the block and oil pan cover. When replacing the oil pump if the pump is rotated into the the pickup tube snout you won't pinch the O ring. Just make sure it seats all the way. If you can find the "blue" colored O ring it's the thickest and seals really well. As CMY say's I would replace the factory pump with the Melling since your in there.

Hardest part of the job is moving the rack and r&r the balancer. Since CMY is sending the procedure, I won't go into it.

You should also replace your valve springs when installing an aftermarket cam along with (at least) 5/16" chrome molly push rods. Depending on the cam "size" the stock size (7.4) may still work if the cam is not too big and the heads haven't been shaved. But always be safe and check the length.

It's also a good habit to degree the cam (to make sure correct profile). Lot's of people don't with LS engines and get away with it though.

Good Luck!

I agree about the springs, Comp cam says with "bee hive" springs 75000 is about enuff on stock springs, depending on lift you don't need dual springs, I went with Comps recommended "bee hive" for my set-up, I have been using Crane's "gold race" roller rockers for years{came as a whole kit, RR studs guide plates and push rods} and couldn't be . no degreeing here no room with the motor in car, C5R chain and about 80 times around with my head stuck in front of the motor to make sure the dots lined up, started like it was NEVER apart.

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Old 06-19-2017, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rajahhindi View Post
Hello Everyone,
I have a 2008 vette base with the wet sump. I am having a cam installed by a local performance shop. But since I live in Australia, nobody knows much about working on vettes. Anyway, the cam kit I got from the US included everything including the high pressure melling oil pump. I talked to the shop owner and he says the sump has to be removed to change the pump? I checked on this forum and previous threads said people have changed it without touching the sump and others by lowering the sump a small amount. What are the chances of damaging the sump gasket and/or pinching the pickup tube o ring? Is it really that difficult to do it this way? How many people would remove the sump to do it this way? I'm obviously trying to get out of unnecessary labor costs, if the risk of damaging either the pan gasket or the o ring is not that great? Thanks, Brian
Brian, check the Magnuson thread that I posted some details of my cam change on. As stated already, you don't need to touch the oil pan, just use a little silicone in the corners to seal the timing cover against the block and oil pan where those two join when you're putting it back together. You won't damage the sump gasket unless you're really careless.
BTW: There's a special procedure for installing the Melling pump (if that's what you have) using three feeler gauges. I think I posted photos of that too. Let me know if you have any questions or need help, pictures, etc.
BTW: Which kit did you get and what components are included?
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by CMY SIX View Post
you DO NOT repeat DO NOT have to drop the sump, it can/has been done with just the timing cover off, if they can't see how you picked the wrong shop. send me your email and I will send you a pictorial of a camswap including the pump change. and a Melling M295 would have been just fine for a new pump
Thanks for the pictorial. Really appreciate it.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by CI GS View Post
Brian, check the Magnuson thread that I posted some details of my cam change on. As stated already, you don't need to touch the oil pan, just use a little silicone in the corners to seal the timing cover against the block and oil pan where those two join when you're putting it back together. You won't damage the sump gasket unless you're really careless.
BTW: There's a special procedure for installing the Melling pump (if that's what you have) using three feeler gauges. I think I posted photos of that too. Let me know if you have any questions or need help, pictures, etc.
BTW: Which kit did you get and what components are included?
Hey Sammy,
I almost pmed you about the oil pump, but for some reason,
I did not think you changed your pump. I will go back through
your SC thread. The cam kit I got is from Shane Hinds/Fap. It is a proven stock stall cam with great driveability, nice lope and
makes good power. Shane tunes remotely so I bought hp tuners pro
and a wideband, so he can tune it for me. He posted up a dyno run 2 days ago of a chev ss, ie Australia's Commodore that is exported to the US. It had long tubes, cold air and the same cam. Made 450/414 rwhp/torque on a mustang dyno. yeah, I know dynos are all different. The kit Shane puts together includes everything including springs, push rods, chain, sprockets, oil pump, gaskets and trunion upgrage kit. The cam is from Cam Motion. I'm pretty excited about it. Now I have to read up on how to flash his e-mail tune with Hp tuners. Then starts the real study of learning the basics of tuning.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:32 AM
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You have to pull the Melling pump apart to install it correctly. I'll find the Melling video that schpenxel posted up somewhere showing how it's done. That made life much easier for me. It's nothing to fret over. Just take your time. Here's a picture of mine when going on my car:
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Last edited by CI GS; 06-19-2017 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by CI GS View Post
You have to pull the Melling pump apart to install it correctly. I'll find the Melling video that schpenxel posted up somewhere showing how it's done. That made life much easier for me. It's nothing to fret over. Just take your time. Here's a picture of mine when going on my car:
I found the video on youtube. Looks quite simple. The parts will be another week away. Thanks, Anyway. Did you put the standard or high pressure unit in?
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CI GS View Post
You have to pull the Melling pump apart to install it correctly. I'll find the Melling video that schpenxel posted up somewhere showing how it's done. That made life much easier for me. It's nothing to fret over. Just take your time. Here's a picture of mine when going on my car:
Sammy, Did you use red Loctite on the cam bolts?
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rajahhindi View Post
Sammy, Did you use red Loctite on the cam bolts?
I used red Loctite on mine and I also had the ARP bolt lock plate but the one thing I forgot was too bend the tabs over before I closed it up, the stock bolts are barely torqued, I got mine really tight by hand and don't think there will EVER be a problem.
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by rajahhindi View Post
Sammy, Did you use red Loctite on the cam bolts?
Yes. Cleaned the holes out first with a Q-tip soaked in acetone and then blow dried them with compressed air. Ditto for the oil pump and pickup bolts. I think I used blue locative on the oil pump and pickup tube bolts. actually.
I'm a bit paranoid about bolts coming loose inside an engine.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:00 PM
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BTW: the easiest way to work on everything up front is to put the car up on jackstands or the lowest setting on a lift, so that the nose of the car is about waist high, so that you can lean over the front of the car with the hood off. Then take everything out the front, including the AC core (it's easy to recharge your AC later). Once you got all of that crap out of the way, then you can tackle the steering rack.
Here's how it did mine - twice:
Take the rack bolts out and disconnect the links from the spindles, take off the PS lines from the head of the rack, disconnect the steering wheel shaft - MAKE SURE THAT THE SHAFT DOESNT GET TURNED AROUND AFTER YOU PULL THE RACK OUT- and then slide the rack over slightly to the passenger side and rotate the "head" of the steering rack so that you can get it over far enough to lift the drivers side steering link upwards as high as it can go. To do this operation, I first took some big cable ties and tied all the hoses and wire harnesses together to keep them out of the way from hooking up on the rack when you're pulling it out. Once you have it over far enough to lift the end link up all the way, then you can haul the whole damn thing out the top of the car by carefully pulling it over the drivers side fender.
That worked great for me. By the second time around, I had it down pat.
With that rack and everything else out of the way, working on the cam, oil pump, etc., was a pleasure, compared to the last time I did it, hanging upside down like a bat in my truck.
Not sure how it works on your right hand drive Vette though...
Look at all the space:
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Last edited by CI GS; 06-19-2017 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by CMY SIX View Post
you DO NOT repeat DO NOT have to drop the sump, it can/has been done with just the timing cover off, if they can't see how you picked the wrong shop. send me your email and I will send you a pictorial of a camswap including the pump change. and a Melling M295 would have been just fine for a new pump
Could I possibly get he same pictorial? [email protected]
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by CI GS View Post
BTW: the easiest way to work on everything up front is to put the car up on jackstands or the lowest setting on a lift, so that the nose of the car is about waist high, so that you can lean over the front of the car with the hood off. Then take everything out the front, including the AC core (it's easy to recharge your AC later). Once you got all of that crap out of the way, then you can tackle the steering rack.
Here's how it did mine - twice:
Take the rack bolts out and disconnect the links from the spindles, take off the PS lines from the head of the rack, disconnect the steering wheel shaft - MAKE SURE THAT THE SHAFT DOESNT GET TURNED AROUND AFTER YOU PULL THE RACK OUT- and then slide the rack over slightly to the passenger side and rotate the "head" of the steering rack so that you can get it over far enough to lift the drivers side steering link upwards as high as it can go. To do this operation, I first took some big cable ties and tied all the hoses and wire harnesses together to keep them out of the way from hooking up on the rack when you're pulling it out. Once you have it over far enough to lift the end link up all the way, then you can haul the whole damn thing out the top of the car by carefully pulling it over the drivers side fender.
That worked great for me. By the second time around, I had it down pat.
With that rack and everything else out of the way, working on the cam, oil pump, etc., was a pleasure, compared to the last time I did it, hanging upside down like a bat in my truck.
Not sure how it works on your right hand drive Vette though...
Look at all the space:
Yeah, Thanks man. I'LL be talking to the shop this week. the cam is another 2 weeks away to Australia. The car is stripped down to the cam cover. They pulled your drivers side header out to get the air con compressor out, that had the wiring plug to it damaged by the air con belt tearing to shreds. So, ill pick up the header and have a bung welded into it near the collectors for my new wide band. I have a good mate who is a boiler maker.
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by C U IN REARVEIW View Post
Could I possibly get he same pictorial? [email protected]
you should have received it
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Old 10-02-2018, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by CMY SIX View Post
you DO NOT repeat DO NOT have to drop the sump, it can/has been done with just the timing cover off, if they can't see how you picked the wrong shop. send me your email and I will send you a pictorial of a camswap including the pump change. and a Melling M295 would have been just fine for a new pump
Just wondering if you still have those pictures for the pump swap?? [email protected] cheers
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:09 PM
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Would the Melling M295 be the same pump to put in a 2012 Grand Sport M6 with dry sump? I emailed Melling and they replied they don't sell a "dry sump" oil pump for that year and LS3? I find that hard to believe since I see people referencing it all the time.
I just don't like to order the wrong parts
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Old 10-03-2018, 03:17 PM
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that balancer seems HUGE compared to the ati stock dia that i just installed during my cam swap LOL
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Old 06-09-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by CMY SIX View Post
you should have received it
Do you still have this information available CYA? [email protected]
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