Help me understand E85 and Meth injection.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 125
Likes: 3
From: Jacksonville FL
Help me understand E85 and Meth injection.
Car is a bone stock ZL1 2009 with 2k miles. Ordered the Lingenfelter 710 kit and LG headers. IDE like the idea of more power but not trying to compromise the tame ness of the car as well as keep the general happy when she’s riding along. She’s not a fan of really loud drone while cruising. My question is everyone’s talking about getting tuned for E85 and adding meth injection. Is this all really worth it?? I know e85 can be a pain to get but we have a lot of places locally that carry it and the car isn’t a daily driver. The only concern would be road trips. Anyways pardon my ignorance but any help and advice is appreciated. Thanks
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 24,035
Likes: 2,342
From: Gilbert AZ
IMO no reason to go "e85" only. These cars and ECUs have flex fuel capability from factory. Just set the car up with flex fuel, and you can run 91-E100, and anything in between, and not worry about driving anywhere.
You do it for octane/power. E85 or ethanol blends are much higher octane and knock resistant, which means more timing, more power. Meth injection is basically done for same reason, along with intake temp cooling. Unless you setup is extreme you do not need both. Just setup the car for flex fuel, and enjoy. Call DSX tuning and get setup with everything you need.
You do it for octane/power. E85 or ethanol blends are much higher octane and knock resistant, which means more timing, more power. Meth injection is basically done for same reason, along with intake temp cooling. Unless you setup is extreme you do not need both. Just setup the car for flex fuel, and enjoy. Call DSX tuning and get setup with everything you need.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,502
Likes: 3,629
Although you can make more power initially, and for longer hits of boost with a meth kit involved with a over spun TVS-2300, it really comes back to the maintenance of meth mix in the tank to begin with isntead.
E-85 alone will have you covered on then needed octane rating to prevent detonation instead of having to run a very high octane of petro/add a meth kit into the mix, but your going to be burning about 30% more of E-85 than petro, even when cruising and not on boost, and when you get into prolonged hits of boosts, will start to get heat soak from the over spun TVS that will start to retard the timing to pull power back instead.
Hence meth mix is 50 methanol, and 50% water. When under boost, this is atomized spraying into the intake to make sure that you have the octane requirements to prevent detention under boost (meth part), cools the pressurized air/TVS to prevent heat soak via prolong boost events (water part), help to keep the intake manifold and runners clean (meth part), allows for the atomized water to turn to steam (expansion) during cylinder ignition to increase power during the down stroke (water), and the steam created also help to keep the top end of the motor clean long term as well.
Note, since you know that meth mix is, very easy to make if by the gallon for about $4 via your local chemical supply store for methanol and distilled water from the local grocery store; verses trying to buy it premixed at $40 a gallon as boost juice isntead.
But, I'm with Unreal on this one for you, since it does not sound like you are trying to ring even drop of HP out of the motor, nor going to be into boost long enough to get to the point of heat sink, and you would be better off just converting the car to flex fuel to run it on E-85 for ease of convince instead. Worst case, can't get
e-85, and the ecm will just kick the tune back down to the octane amount you are running on petrol to keep the motor safe instead.
E-85 alone will have you covered on then needed octane rating to prevent detonation instead of having to run a very high octane of petro/add a meth kit into the mix, but your going to be burning about 30% more of E-85 than petro, even when cruising and not on boost, and when you get into prolonged hits of boosts, will start to get heat soak from the over spun TVS that will start to retard the timing to pull power back instead.
Hence meth mix is 50 methanol, and 50% water. When under boost, this is atomized spraying into the intake to make sure that you have the octane requirements to prevent detention under boost (meth part), cools the pressurized air/TVS to prevent heat soak via prolong boost events (water part), help to keep the intake manifold and runners clean (meth part), allows for the atomized water to turn to steam (expansion) during cylinder ignition to increase power during the down stroke (water), and the steam created also help to keep the top end of the motor clean long term as well.
Note, since you know that meth mix is, very easy to make if by the gallon for about $4 via your local chemical supply store for methanol and distilled water from the local grocery store; verses trying to buy it premixed at $40 a gallon as boost juice isntead.
But, I'm with Unreal on this one for you, since it does not sound like you are trying to ring even drop of HP out of the motor, nor going to be into boost long enough to get to the point of heat sink, and you would be better off just converting the car to flex fuel to run it on E-85 for ease of convince instead. Worst case, can't get
e-85, and the ecm will just kick the tune back down to the octane amount you are running on petrol to keep the motor safe instead.
Last edited by Dano523; Nov 19, 2017 at 05:06 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 125
Likes: 3
From: Jacksonville FL
Although you can make more power initially, and for longer hits of boost with a meth kit involved with a over spun TVS-2300, it really comes back to the maintenance of meth mix in the tank to begin with isntead.
E-85 alone will have you covered on then needed octane rating to prevent detonation instead of having to run a very high octane of petro/add a meth kit into the mix, but your going to be burning about 30% more of E-85 than petro, even when cruising and not on boost, and when you get into prolonged hits of boosts, will start to get heat soak from the over spun TVS that will start to retard the timing to pull power back instead.
Hence meth mix is 50 methanol, and 50% water. When under boost, this is atomized spraying into the intake to make sure that you have the octane requirements to prevent detention under boost (meth part), cools the pressurized air/TVS to prevent heat soak via prolong boost events (water part), help to keep the intake manifold and runners clean (meth part), allows for the atomized water to turn to steam (expansion) during cylinder ignition to increase power during the down stroke (water), and the steam created also help to keep the top end of the motor clean long term as well.
Note, since you know that meth mix is, very easy to make if by the gallon for about $4 via your local chemical supply store for methanol and distilled water from the local grocery store; verses trying to buy it premixed at $40 a gallon as boost juice isntead.
But, I'm with Unreal on this one for you, since it does not sound like you are trying to ring even drop of HP out of the motor, nor going to be into boost long enough to get to the point of heat sink, and you would be better off just converting the car to flex fuel to run it on E-85 for ease of convince instead. Worst case, can't get
e-85, and the ecm will just kick the tune back down to the octane amount you are running on petrol to keep the motor safe instead.
E-85 alone will have you covered on then needed octane rating to prevent detonation instead of having to run a very high octane of petro/add a meth kit into the mix, but your going to be burning about 30% more of E-85 than petro, even when cruising and not on boost, and when you get into prolonged hits of boosts, will start to get heat soak from the over spun TVS that will start to retard the timing to pull power back instead.
Hence meth mix is 50 methanol, and 50% water. When under boost, this is atomized spraying into the intake to make sure that you have the octane requirements to prevent detention under boost (meth part), cools the pressurized air/TVS to prevent heat soak via prolong boost events (water part), help to keep the intake manifold and runners clean (meth part), allows for the atomized water to turn to steam (expansion) during cylinder ignition to increase power during the down stroke (water), and the steam created also help to keep the top end of the motor clean long term as well.
Note, since you know that meth mix is, very easy to make if by the gallon for about $4 via your local chemical supply store for methanol and distilled water from the local grocery store; verses trying to buy it premixed at $40 a gallon as boost juice isntead.
But, I'm with Unreal on this one for you, since it does not sound like you are trying to ring even drop of HP out of the motor, nor going to be into boost long enough to get to the point of heat sink, and you would be better off just converting the car to flex fuel to run it on E-85 for ease of convince instead. Worst case, can't get
e-85, and the ecm will just kick the tune back down to the octane amount you are running on petrol to keep the motor safe instead.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 12,502
Likes: 3,629
No worries, adding a flex fuel sensor in, is on the cheap side in the grand plan of it all, and once installed, then just becomes part of the tuning process for the car to run on either petrol if needed, or flex fuel/e-85 as your main fuel instead.
https://www.dedicatedmotorsports.com...he-p/c6ffk.htm
If down the road you want to add meth kit into the works too prevent heat soak on long or repeat boost hits, this will will get you started, while stilling running e-85 at the same time.
https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showt...ol-kit-details
https://www.dedicatedmotorsports.com...he-p/c6ffk.htm
If down the road you want to add meth kit into the works too prevent heat soak on long or repeat boost hits, this will will get you started, while stilling running e-85 at the same time.
https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showt...ol-kit-details
Last edited by Dano523; Nov 20, 2017 at 05:27 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 24,035
Likes: 2,342
From: Gilbert AZ
https://dsxtuning.com/collections/fl...-15-camaro-zl1
You want to go to the original source of flex fuel stuff. Use DSX not the others.
You want to go to the original source of flex fuel stuff. Use DSX not the others.
