Ragtop 99

Haven't seen the lobe profiles, but I'm surprised that .610 lift on a 223 lobe is not also considered aggressive.

mcm95403

Exactly!

Owenco

So as another update to my thread, given the ample time I have had to research and make wiser choices, I have now switched to ANOTHER different cam profile. Oh boy, wasting money. I bit the bullet and spoke with Pat G for a cam selection. After explaining all of my prioritized desires, I was recommended his custom grind 226/232 .598"/.598" 113LSA +2 on his own custom lobe design. Its going to be ground through Cam Motion on polished 8620 chrome moly steel core. His custom lobes are designed for longer spring life, quiet operation with stock ratio rockers, and outstanding valvetrain stability. I chose to go with a slightly larger cam since I also decided to pull the heads off and upgrade the lifters/trays and do a valve job. Figured it wasn't worth trusting 50kmile valvetrain components on a new cam setup. Reliability/longevity has always been my biggest concern, so I'm going to freshen everything up one time for peace of mind. Im going with Johnson 2110 drop in lifters and factory replacement trays, GM Performance MLS head gaskets, ARP bolts, BTR .660 dual springs, chrome moly push rods, trunion upgrade, melling oil pump, new chain, plugs, etc...I will update the thread when the car is heading into the shop.

I also ordered a FAST 102 from Maryland Speed 3weeks ago without any update, so that will potentially be another story for another separate thread...

mcm95403

Interesting. I'll be curious to see how it idles and runs. .598" seems pretty lifty for "longer spring life" - unless that's just a relative term. If you have to wait too long for the FAST, just get an MSD instead. Mine works great on my LS2.

cv67

Jeez he doesnt need a custom cam, theres a plenty that will work (most "custom" grinds are really off the shelf pieces!)

Look up Bill Boudreaux at ZF Doc bet you can work something out with him being a DIY guy. Hes in Cave Creek, builds a nice trans, too.
Not a fan at all myself, prefer stuff that lasts.


OP does AZ do the sniffer test or just the visual & plug into your port?

Owenco

I guess its too late to change my mind on doing the work myself. I left a 400$ deposit on the date for the work and its, "non-refundable". As long as they do good meticulous work i'm ok with it. They are pretty reasonable. As for emissions, its just an OBD style scan/visual I believe. I know I went with a slightly bigger cam than I originally was shooting for, but I figured since I'm pretty much doing the entire top end(lifters-up) might as well. Most guys just throw a cam/springs/pushrods in and do nothing else. I don't trust my factory lifters getting abused forever. Might as well do it all now and not have to worry about it. Hopefully Mr. Pat G gave me a good recommendation. I should have results by the end of next week.

Owenco

Well, now I am sending my heads to AI to have them ported. Figured since it costs 500$ to do a valve job, might as well just spend an extra 600-700 and have them ported at the same time. Now it will be a couple months to get it all together. Money pit, haha

HOXXOH

Am I missing something here? August 8th was last Wednesday and I was expecting to see a baseline dyno sheet, but now you're talking a couple more months???

Also, you didn't like the suggestion to do LS3 heads (brand new ~$560 stock or $760 ported + rockers ~ $240) and use a LS3 IM (new ~ $230) $1230 total?
But $500 + $650 to do your cathedral port heads and a FAST $950, totaling $2100 is a better deal?
I don't get it, but it's your money and choice.

Owenco

So I did do a baseline. 365hp @6000 359ttq@4500. Car was on a 93octane tune running on AZ 91octane @108deg ambient temp, and heatsoaked for 20min doing 5 total runs because his dyno wasn't communicating with the computer. The final run was the result, which I wasn't too happy with, but given the conditions it makes sense. I am also running through 3.90's, so I'm assuming with stock gearing, no heatsoak, and the correct gas tuned in, Id likely be over 380hp. But who cares about speculations. On to your other mentions!!

So, funny thing is I actually had asked Pat G if I were better off with the LS3 head setup since overall it seemed to cost less money. Its actually only a 3-400$ difference in total, but I'll get to that. I emailed Pat and he replied, "LS3 heads are actually a poor choice compared to some ported 243 heads. The cathedral port heads when properly ported will walk all over the LS3 heads". So this is where my decision was made. In my email I pointed out, same as you, that the LS3 heads seemed more cost effective after selling stock parts. Here...

bare ls3 heads $1120
milled .030 $125
rockers $240
ls3 injectors(longer) $150
intake manifold $230$
TOTAL ~$1850
minus selling ported stock intake man ~$200
minus selling stock 243's ~$300
GRAND TOTAL ~$1350

-VS-

AI Ported 243's(shipped) ~$1100
FAST 102 $700(deal)
TOTAL $1800
minus selling ported stock intake man ~$200
GRAND TOTAL ~$1600

So overall it has absolutely been a learning curve. I'm sure if I were more patient I could have put everything together for much less. Plus I should have waited to hear if anyone could have helped me out with a location to do the work myself since I am new in the area. Overall I think I've made a decent choice without going haywire on spending.

HOXXOH

Now I'm surprised for a couple things. Apparently I missed that you had a tune, ported IM, and 3.90 gears and maybe other mods that accounted for several HP over a stock LS2. But the real surprise was that Pat claimed a ported LS2 head was superior to a LS3 head (I assume unported). If that was correct, you'd think the LS3 guys would be dumping their heads to get ported LS2 heads, yet in my nearly 11 years on this and other forums, I don't remember anyone doing that or even discussing it. Did he mention the IM required to match the heads or who would do the porting?

Owenco

I mentioned my current mods/goals in my original post. Honestly I am also surprised with some of the mixed info from different reputable sources as well. I literally had all the LS3 parts picked out and thought I had done my research. Apparently there are lots of different variations of setup to reach the same power number. I have already sent my heads to AI and their turnaround is 6-8 weeks, hence the longer wait. Pat did not mention which IM was required, but I assumed a FAST 102, and that's what I had ordered even before deciding to do heads. I also assumed he meant for the heads to be ported by a reputable proven shop, and Advanced Induction certainly has made a good mark on the community with plenty of documented success. All in, considering my cam choice, I don't think I am at any loss in head route. I do believe I could've saved a couple hundred going the LS3 route, and I am certain that even if one of these heads flows better than the other, its negligible considering my cam choice. I think better choices could always be made, but I am confident enough in the route I've ended up with to sleep at night. Hopefully the end result is a good mesh of top quality parts that work well together to make some reliable power.

cv67

$500 for a valve job? Is it gold plated?
Good move on not using the XE pieces...any high lift cam should be checked periodically (springs)
Were spoiled today where 600 lift is common/mundane. Remember when anything over .500 was "big" lol.

Owenco

Finally FINISHED!!!
Finally finished!! First run is with the full C6 Z06 exhaust manifolds to mufflers, big difference when I switched to headers. Here is a list of all the modifications...

Pat G. custom cam on his own soft PGN lobes and 8620 grade core. 226/232 .598/.598 113+2
Advanced Induction 226CC ported heads milled .015 less P2V(~62cc) Calculated Comp. ratio of 8.4DCR and 11.2SCR with this cam/head setup tuned on 91OCT
Factory thickness MLS head gaskets
Johnson 2110 drop in style lifters with new trays
Custom Manton pushrods for exactly .048 preload on all lifters(Used checker tool and digital calipers)
Brian Tooley dual valve springs
BTR trunion upgrade
Vengence Racing ported FAST 102
Vararam intake
Speed Engineering 1-7/8 headers(high temp painted) & 3" X-pipe, with C6 Z06 axle back mufflers(with muffler mod and bi-mode valves setup)
Mishimoto radiator
Zip Corvette HD 3.90 differential
ATI balancer
Melling 10295 high pressure oil pump
Ls2 timing chain
ARP head bolts/balancer


Special thanks to Joe @ Cordes Performance Racing in Phoenix for all his help and patience, Nic D for tuning, Pat G for his time and recommendations, Al @ Manton and his team, and Phil at Advanced Induction for his engineering expertise and thorough communication.

I will post some videos as soon as my brother is in town to help record.

Owenco

Here is the original baseline dyno versus the heads/cam before the headers were installed

The baseline mods were only a Vararam and full C6 Z06 exhaust from manifolds to mufflers. ALL RUNS HAVE THE 3.90 gears

rsb213

Congrats. My car will be on the same dyno soon.

Cordes Performance Racing

Glad you're happy man!

mcm95403

Awesome! Do you have a video of the idle quality?

Owenco

Here's a cold start idle video activating the dual mode Z06 modded mufflers. I'll post a driveby video next week when my brother is in town.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjmo...ature=youtu.be

9T3VETTE

Sounds great! Nice build.

Owenco

2 higher rpm loaded exhaust clips for anyone interested as a reference point. Both are with the valves open and one is up a steep-ish hill slow shifting and rolling into it. It sounds great in person, both at full throttle and normal acceleration.