C6s with vacuum pumps
08-16-2018, 06:04 AM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
C6s with vacuum pumps
Anyone here run a legit vacuum pump setup on their c6? I was thinking about installing the mighty mouse wild setup on the car but wanted to allow this boosted motor run as efficient as possible. Any suggestions? Post pics of your setup if you have them.
08-16-2018, 07:10 PM
#2
Considering that your not going to be on boost all the time to keep the intake under pressure all the time, standard set up with twin cans, and even back check blow off filter on the dirty side can so you can draw a vacuum through it while the motor is not on boost is all that is needed.
Hence if you where on boost all the time with the intake manifold under pressure all the time to not have a vacuum source to begin with, then added vacuum pump is really not going to matter, since with the amount of additional blow-by past the pistons under boost/ the additional carbon in the oil from such, that will require the oil to be changed a lot more frequent, and not the other vapors your trying to sucking out to try to keep the oil clean instead.
So manifold intake ports gets a one way valve it will not blow pressure out of it, that goes the catch can on the out side, that can gets a filter with check valve on it that only pressure can go out the filter, and in side of the can goes to the valley cover port.
Clean side catch is off the vavle covers if wet sump, or out of tank if dry sump to the in side of the car (don't need a filter blow off system on this can, the out side of the can to the port in front of the TB.
Hence under WOT under boost, the excess blow by pressure will be pushed through the clean side to be caught before it pushed to the intake before the TB, and dirty side catch can will have the blow off filter is too much blow-by pressure is set to the clean side can, to be blow out of the filter of the dirty side can. At less than WOT when the intake is not under pressure, dirty side is working normally, since the intake manifold is under vaccum, and the one way vavle on the intake manifold port is allowing the vacuum to pull the valley port vapors through the dirty side can.
So this, but we are adding a check valved filter on the dirty side can to allow excess pressure to blow off it, so the clean side can and hoses are not over pressured to blow off, with high boost levels. major amounts off pistol blow-by isntead.
Just a FYI, but if you are going to push major boost, and not running a meth kit to prevent heat soak to the pistons/rings to cause the rings go to zero gap from the heat stretch and snap the heads off the pistons, make dam sure you increase your piston ring gaps!!!!
And yes, we want to use the valley cover port, and the valve cover ports, since they have OEM oil baffles just before these ports to trap oil in the first place!!!
Hence if you where on boost all the time with the intake manifold under pressure all the time to not have a vacuum source to begin with, then added vacuum pump is really not going to matter, since with the amount of additional blow-by past the pistons under boost/ the additional carbon in the oil from such, that will require the oil to be changed a lot more frequent, and not the other vapors your trying to sucking out to try to keep the oil clean instead.
So manifold intake ports gets a one way valve it will not blow pressure out of it, that goes the catch can on the out side, that can gets a filter with check valve on it that only pressure can go out the filter, and in side of the can goes to the valley cover port.
Clean side catch is off the vavle covers if wet sump, or out of tank if dry sump to the in side of the car (don't need a filter blow off system on this can, the out side of the can to the port in front of the TB.
Hence under WOT under boost, the excess blow by pressure will be pushed through the clean side to be caught before it pushed to the intake before the TB, and dirty side catch can will have the blow off filter is too much blow-by pressure is set to the clean side can, to be blow out of the filter of the dirty side can. At less than WOT when the intake is not under pressure, dirty side is working normally, since the intake manifold is under vaccum, and the one way vavle on the intake manifold port is allowing the vacuum to pull the valley port vapors through the dirty side can.
So this, but we are adding a check valved filter on the dirty side can to allow excess pressure to blow off it, so the clean side can and hoses are not over pressured to blow off, with high boost levels. major amounts off pistol blow-by isntead.
Just a FYI, but if you are going to push major boost, and not running a meth kit to prevent heat soak to the pistons/rings to cause the rings go to zero gap from the heat stretch and snap the heads off the pistons, make dam sure you increase your piston ring gaps!!!!
And yes, we want to use the valley cover port, and the valve cover ports, since they have OEM oil baffles just before these ports to trap oil in the first place!!!
Last edited by Dano523; 08-17-2018 at 03:31 PM.
08-17-2018, 06:56 AM
#3
Pro
Thread Starter
Considering that your not going to be on boost all the time to keep the intake under pressure all the time, standard set up with twin cans, and even back check blow off filter on the dirty side can so you can draw a vacuum through it while the motor is not on boost will all that is needed.
Hence if you where on boost all the time with the intake manifold under pressure all the time to not have a vacuum source to begin with, then added vacuum pump is really not going to matter, since with the amount of additional blow-by past the pistons under boost/ the additional carbon in the oil from such, that will require the oil to be changed a lot more frequent, and not the other vapors your trying to sucking out to try to keep the oil clean instead.
So manifold intake ports gets a one way valve it will not blow pressure out of it, that goes the catch can on the out side, that can gets a filter with check valve on it that only pressure can go out the filter, and in side of the can goes to the valley cover port.
Clean side catch is off the vavle covers if wet sump, or out of tank if dry sump to the in side of the car (don't need a filter blow off system on this can, the out side of the can to the port in front of the TB.
Hence under WOT under boost, the excess blow by pressure will be pushed through the clean side to be caught before it pushed to the intake before the TB, and dirty side catch can will have the blow off filter is too much blow-by pressure is set to the clean side can, to be blow out of the filter of the dirty side can. At less than WOT when the intake is not under pressure, dirty side is working normally, since the intake manifold is under vaccum, and the one way vavle on the intake manifold port is allowing the vacuum to pull the valley port vapors through the dirty side can.
So this, but we are adding a check valved filter on the dirty side can to allow excess pressure to blow off it, so the clean side can and hoses are not over pressured to blow off, with high boost levels. major amounts off pistol blow-by isntead.
Just a FYI, but if you are going to push major boost, and not running a meth kit to prevent heat soak to the pistons/rings to cause the rings go to zero gap from the heat stretch and snap the heads off the pistons, make dam sure you increase your piston ring gaps!!!!
And yes, we want to use the valley cover port, and the valve cover ports, since they have OEM oil baffles just before these ports to trap oil in the first place!!!
Hence if you where on boost all the time with the intake manifold under pressure all the time to not have a vacuum source to begin with, then added vacuum pump is really not going to matter, since with the amount of additional blow-by past the pistons under boost/ the additional carbon in the oil from such, that will require the oil to be changed a lot more frequent, and not the other vapors your trying to sucking out to try to keep the oil clean instead.
So manifold intake ports gets a one way valve it will not blow pressure out of it, that goes the catch can on the out side, that can gets a filter with check valve on it that only pressure can go out the filter, and in side of the can goes to the valley cover port.
Clean side catch is off the vavle covers if wet sump, or out of tank if dry sump to the in side of the car (don't need a filter blow off system on this can, the out side of the can to the port in front of the TB.
Hence under WOT under boost, the excess blow by pressure will be pushed through the clean side to be caught before it pushed to the intake before the TB, and dirty side catch can will have the blow off filter is too much blow-by pressure is set to the clean side can, to be blow out of the filter of the dirty side can. At less than WOT when the intake is not under pressure, dirty side is working normally, since the intake manifold is under vaccum, and the one way vavle on the intake manifold port is allowing the vacuum to pull the valley port vapors through the dirty side can.
So this, but we are adding a check valved filter on the dirty side can to allow excess pressure to blow off it, so the clean side can and hoses are not over pressured to blow off, with high boost levels. major amounts off pistol blow-by isntead.
Just a FYI, but if you are going to push major boost, and not running a meth kit to prevent heat soak to the pistons/rings to cause the rings go to zero gap from the heat stretch and snap the heads off the pistons, make dam sure you increase your piston ring gaps!!!!
And yes, we want to use the valley cover port, and the valve cover ports, since they have OEM oil baffles just before these ports to trap oil in the first place!!!
Last edited by bp92gsr; 08-17-2018 at 06:57 AM.
08-17-2018, 03:59 PM
#4
Without S/C, when you are at less then WOT, the intake manifold is under vaccum, and will be drawing the vapors out of the motor from the Valley port, into the intake manifold port to keep the motor oil clean.
At WOT, intake manifold losses it vacuum, and the clean side has enough of a vaccum in front of the TB to pull the vapors that way into the intake manifold (in front of the Throttle body).
Now with a S/C in play, when you are under boost pressure, the intake manifold will be under pressure, so the one way check valve is used on the intake manifold port so pressure is not blown out of that port.manifold. So the dirty side works normal when you are not under boost since the intake will be at vacuum, and the only time the Manifold is under boost, it when the Blow off vavle is closed when you are deep in to the gas pedal pushing boost to the motor. Hence cruising around at say highway speeds with your foot steady on the gas pedal, the BOV is open so the S/C is not dumping boost into the motor.
Now with motor under boost pressure, this is going to increase blow-by past the piston rings, meaning that the motor will have a lot more pressure coming out of it. This is why we use a blow off filter with it own check vavle on the dirty catch can, and the reason that we want the blow off filter to only allow pressure out of the can, not a vacuum back in isntead. Hence no boost pressure to the intake manifold, and the catch systems are working like a non S/C motor.
To add, current super chargers have Blow off valve/gates, and are not like the old 8-71 roots blowers that did not. Hence on new super chargers, the only time the motor sees boost, is when you are deep into the gas pedal accelerating. As soon as you come out of the pedal, or holding the pedal steady for crusing, the BOV's open up so the motor is not still being pressured.
Hence on the old 8-71 super chargers, if the motor was spilling, the blower was pushing boost to the motor. You ring the motor up to 6K and come off the gas pedal, and even with the carb plates closed, the blower is still pushing boost, and the Revs drop slowly instead. ON the new S/C's with Bov's, when you come off the gas, the blow off valve opens up to blow off the pressure that the S/C is producing so it not sent to the motor still, and the revs drop down quickly instead.
So this is why the standard dual catch can set up works for a N/A motor, will still work with the new S/C's. hence we just add in the one way check vavle at the intake manifold port so we don't loss pressure out of the intake manifold during boost to the motor/intake manifold. Also we add in the one way check vavle filter to the dirty catch can, so as that catch cans does see a lot more pressure at boost from the valley and valve cover ports due to piston blow by into the motor, the check valve filter allows that excess pressure to be blow out of the can (instead of blowing the cans or lines).
If you are still lost, then tell me what S/C your going to run, and I can do a drawing and list of the needed parts to build the system; including using the OEM ports since these ports have very good oil baffles in them to start with.
Hence metco has a good blow off filter with check valve, and it plumbed into a dual catch can set up like the radium cans that allows you to check the amount of the oil in cans quickly, works out very well.
http://www.radiumauto.com/Universal-...-Can-P189.aspx
https://www.metcomotorsports.com/pro...p?prod=MBR0012
Hell, if we are not dealing with a lot of excess pressure in the first place, then smaller check vavle with filter would be fine isntead,
http://lubrication-equipment.oilrite...nd-check-valve
CFM has a breather with check vavle that can be placed on the valve cover cap port on the dry sump motor if you don't want the blow off filter with check vavle near the cans, but ends up making a mess with it around the injector covers isntead.
https://www.c-f-m.com/performancepar...m#.UtWrU_teGVg
And again, all depends on the amount of boost your pushing and if you need a blow off filter system or not.
If you are only pushing around 8lbs of boost, filter not needed and the cans will keep up with the pressure to them. If you are making say 700hp+, then filter system will be needed, since the motor is going to see a hell of lot more boost pressure, going to have a hell of lot more pistol blow by pressuring coming out the bottom end, and the sealed catch system may not be able to hold without blowing a line or can instead.
At WOT, intake manifold losses it vacuum, and the clean side has enough of a vaccum in front of the TB to pull the vapors that way into the intake manifold (in front of the Throttle body).
Now with a S/C in play, when you are under boost pressure, the intake manifold will be under pressure, so the one way check valve is used on the intake manifold port so pressure is not blown out of that port.manifold. So the dirty side works normal when you are not under boost since the intake will be at vacuum, and the only time the Manifold is under boost, it when the Blow off vavle is closed when you are deep in to the gas pedal pushing boost to the motor. Hence cruising around at say highway speeds with your foot steady on the gas pedal, the BOV is open so the S/C is not dumping boost into the motor.
Now with motor under boost pressure, this is going to increase blow-by past the piston rings, meaning that the motor will have a lot more pressure coming out of it. This is why we use a blow off filter with it own check vavle on the dirty catch can, and the reason that we want the blow off filter to only allow pressure out of the can, not a vacuum back in isntead. Hence no boost pressure to the intake manifold, and the catch systems are working like a non S/C motor.
To add, current super chargers have Blow off valve/gates, and are not like the old 8-71 roots blowers that did not. Hence on new super chargers, the only time the motor sees boost, is when you are deep into the gas pedal accelerating. As soon as you come out of the pedal, or holding the pedal steady for crusing, the BOV's open up so the motor is not still being pressured.
Hence on the old 8-71 super chargers, if the motor was spilling, the blower was pushing boost to the motor. You ring the motor up to 6K and come off the gas pedal, and even with the carb plates closed, the blower is still pushing boost, and the Revs drop slowly instead. ON the new S/C's with Bov's, when you come off the gas, the blow off valve opens up to blow off the pressure that the S/C is producing so it not sent to the motor still, and the revs drop down quickly instead.
So this is why the standard dual catch can set up works for a N/A motor, will still work with the new S/C's. hence we just add in the one way check vavle at the intake manifold port so we don't loss pressure out of the intake manifold during boost to the motor/intake manifold. Also we add in the one way check vavle filter to the dirty catch can, so as that catch cans does see a lot more pressure at boost from the valley and valve cover ports due to piston blow by into the motor, the check valve filter allows that excess pressure to be blow out of the can (instead of blowing the cans or lines).
If you are still lost, then tell me what S/C your going to run, and I can do a drawing and list of the needed parts to build the system; including using the OEM ports since these ports have very good oil baffles in them to start with.
Hence metco has a good blow off filter with check valve, and it plumbed into a dual catch can set up like the radium cans that allows you to check the amount of the oil in cans quickly, works out very well.
http://www.radiumauto.com/Universal-...-Can-P189.aspx
https://www.metcomotorsports.com/pro...p?prod=MBR0012
Hell, if we are not dealing with a lot of excess pressure in the first place, then smaller check vavle with filter would be fine isntead,
http://lubrication-equipment.oilrite...nd-check-valve
CFM has a breather with check vavle that can be placed on the valve cover cap port on the dry sump motor if you don't want the blow off filter with check vavle near the cans, but ends up making a mess with it around the injector covers isntead.
https://www.c-f-m.com/performancepar...m#.UtWrU_teGVg
And again, all depends on the amount of boost your pushing and if you need a blow off filter system or not.
If you are only pushing around 8lbs of boost, filter not needed and the cans will keep up with the pressure to them. If you are making say 700hp+, then filter system will be needed, since the motor is going to see a hell of lot more boost pressure, going to have a hell of lot more pistol blow by pressuring coming out the bottom end, and the sealed catch system may not be able to hold without blowing a line or can instead.
Last edited by Dano523; 08-17-2018 at 04:27 PM.