Diamond/friction washer necessary on LS3 harmonic balancer replacement?
08-17-2018, 02:54 PM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Diamond/friction washer necessary on LS3 harmonic balancer replacement?
I'm about to replace my harmonic balancer on my '08 LS3. It's wobbling and walking belts above 5k RPM right now. (I'm supercharged with a centri.) I'm replacing with ARP bolt and Powerbond balancer.
Do I NEED to use a diamond embedded / friction washer behind the new HB?
Does the stock LS3 come with this washer installed from the factory?
I am going to pin the crank, so I'm not concerned about spinning on the snout. I'm concerned about belt alignment issues with my supercharger. I've already dealt with a bunch of alignment issues and belt shredding so I'm wondering if that thin washer behind the HB will alter my alignment enough to cause me issues.
Any advice is appreciated.
Do I NEED to use a diamond embedded / friction washer behind the new HB?
Does the stock LS3 come with this washer installed from the factory?
I am going to pin the crank, so I'm not concerned about spinning on the snout. I'm concerned about belt alignment issues with my supercharger. I've already dealt with a bunch of alignment issues and belt shredding so I'm wondering if that thin washer behind the HB will alter my alignment enough to cause me issues.
Any advice is appreciated.
Last edited by theandrewo; 08-17-2018 at 02:54 PM.
08-17-2018, 03:18 PM
#2
Yes, use the DEW (#223), since it's part of the HB alignment front to back. The DEW is needed for alignment off the front of the oil pump drive gear (207) that the HB is sistering to, and to give the Pinning extra help so you don't shear the added pin.
Last edited by Dano523; 08-17-2018 at 03:24 PM.
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theandrewo (08-17-2018)
08-18-2018, 08:41 AM
#3
Safety Car
I'm about to replace my harmonic balancer on my '08 LS3. It's wobbling and walking belts above 5k RPM right now. (I'm supercharged with a centri.) I'm replacing with ARP bolt and Powerbond balancer.
Do I NEED to use a diamond embedded / friction washer behind the new HB?
Does the stock LS3 come with this washer installed from the factory?
I am going to pin the crank, so I'm not concerned about spinning on the snout. I'm concerned about belt alignment issues with my supercharger. I've already dealt with a bunch of alignment issues and belt shredding so I'm wondering if that thin washer behind the HB will alter my alignment enough to cause me issues.
Any advice is appreciated.
Do I NEED to use a diamond embedded / friction washer behind the new HB?
Does the stock LS3 come with this washer installed from the factory?
I am going to pin the crank, so I'm not concerned about spinning on the snout. I'm concerned about belt alignment issues with my supercharger. I've already dealt with a bunch of alignment issues and belt shredding so I'm wondering if that thin washer behind the HB will alter my alignment enough to cause me issues.
Any advice is appreciated.
Last edited by irok; 08-18-2018 at 06:48 PM.
08-19-2018, 12:36 PM
#4
Instructor
I didn't reinstall mine since I went with the OEM-style Powerbond which doesn't have the machined lip. I didnt pin either, but I'm just NA. Held up so far, so we'll see.
Last edited by JonnyCap; 08-19-2018 at 12:38 PM.
08-23-2018, 10:53 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
You’ll never ever shear the pin (unless you used a wooden dowel instead of the steel pin and even then you might not 
)
the washer is incredibly thin. It won’t throw alignment off to not have it.
but I would definitely pin it. No reason not to. I can loan anyone my kit. Just buy a pin. They’re cheap.
Also, don’t forget to clean the keyway and fill with rtv or similar to prevent oil from leaking.
)the washer is incredibly thin. It won’t throw alignment off to not have it.
but I would definitely pin it. No reason not to. I can loan anyone my kit. Just buy a pin. They’re cheap.
Also, don’t forget to clean the keyway and fill with rtv or similar to prevent oil from leaking.
08-23-2018, 12:35 PM
#6
Pro
Thread Starter
You’ll never ever shear the pin (unless you used a wooden dowel instead of the steel pin and even then you might not )
the washer is incredibly thin. It won’t throw alignment off to not have it.
but I would definitely pin it. No reason not to. I can loan anyone my kit. Just buy a pin. They’re cheap.
Also, don’t forget to clean the keyway and fill with rtv or similar to prevent oil from leaking.
)the washer is incredibly thin. It won’t throw alignment off to not have it.
but I would definitely pin it. No reason not to. I can loan anyone my kit. Just buy a pin. They’re cheap.
Also, don’t forget to clean the keyway and fill with rtv or similar to prevent oil from leaking.
I haven't heard that suggestion before - to fill the keyway with rtv. Wouldn't that be a non-issue since the crank seal/timing cover seal should do that job?
08-23-2018, 02:35 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
The cover has a seal that interfaces with the outside of the balancer snout. But the keyway is on the insIde and if you have no key, it is a straight shot into the motor. The bolt and washer cover it but aren’t fluid-tight
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theandrewo (08-23-2018)
08-30-2018, 12:08 PM
#8
Any update to how the washer install went? It seems that it's part number 12674588 (going on ls3 with dry sump) and until this thread, haven't heard of anyone else using it so was just curious. I'm going with the powerbond 1503SS and an arp bolt. Just trying to get everything in order before starting the job. Any advice on an install tool? I know summit sells one but not sure how well it works. Thanks!
08-30-2018, 10:36 PM
#9
Pro
Thread Starter
Any update to how the washer install went? It seems that it's part number 12674588 (going on ls3 with dry sump) and until this thread, haven't heard of anyone else using it so was just curious. I'm going with the powerbond 1503SS and an arp bolt. Just trying to get everything in order before starting the job. Any advice on an install tool? I know summit sells one but not sure how well it works. Thanks!
i ordered the DEW just in case, and once I received it I realized irok was right: it will have no effect on belt alignment. It's literally paper thin.
I used a 3-jaw puller, HB installer, and A&A pin kit, all of which I purchased from a forum member. I bought a flywheel lock from eBay. Not sure on the brand of the 3-jaw or HB installer, but they worked flawlessly.
When i opened up the Powerbond 1117SS, it had brief install instructions that specifically said I did not need to use an OEM friction washer, as it was not designed for it. So I didn't.
When are you doing the job? I'll happily lend ya all the specialty tools. I should be finishing Monday or Tuesday.
Last edited by theandrewo; 08-30-2018 at 10:38 PM.
08-31-2018, 01:13 PM
#10
I actually just started the job today. I had a lift but was working by myself so it was slow going and I did lots of checking on the steps. I found a very detailed tutorial in the c5 section that was extremely helpful (which is a nearly identical process).
i ordered the DEW just in case, and once I received it I realized irok was right: it will have no effect on belt alignment. It's literally paper thin.
I used a 3-jaw puller, HB installer, and A&A pin kit, all of which I purchased from a forum member. I bought a flywheel lock from eBay. Not sure on the brand of the 3-jaw or HB installer, but they worked flawlessly.
When i opened up the Powerbond 1117SS, it had brief install instructions that specifically said I did not need to use an OEM friction washer, as it was not designed for it. So I didn't.
When are you doing the job? I'll happily lend ya all the specialty tools. I should be finishing Monday or Tuesday.
08-31-2018, 02:54 PM
#11
Pro
Thread Starter
Wow that would be awesome! I was in on the Dewitts group buy so I'm waiting for my radiator to come in also and do it all at once. I'm in no hurry as it's not my daily driver. Was debating on whether or not to do a small cam while I was in there. I'm guessing it's not much more work but need to do a lot more research before I'd feel comfortable pulling the trigger on one. What HB did you decide to go with? Thanks again for the offer!
I was also considering a cam, because 75% (or so) of the work is already being done to get to it, but I opted not to. The price tag just got too high. Cam also means high pressure oil pump, hardened pushrods, timing chain, timing cover gasket (and timing cover seal alignment tool), stronger springs (and spring compressor tool), cam bolts, etc. NOT including any labor from a shop, this all added up to around $1k by my calculations. AND you'll need a tune immediately following the cam install, that's another $400-700. And if I'm doing cam, well, I'd also need to add injectors (with my setup), which tacks on another $1k. So the overall package is just too pricy for me right now. But I definitely encourage it if you can swing it! It'll save you some time and money in the future.
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Beef97 (09-05-2018)
09-05-2018, 10:44 AM
#12
Good call, going to pass on the cam. How did the install eventually go for you? Did you replace the timing cover crank seal? I've read somewhere that it's recommended to replace it while in there. I'm still gathering parts (Radiator, arp bolt, HB) and I'm looking up the seal part number and a pin kit right now. Anything else i'll need besides the installation tool and HB puller? Thanks again, super helpful!
09-05-2018, 02:26 PM
#13
Pro
Thread Starter
Worked about 6 hours by myself the first day, reading instructions carefully and taking my time. I'm supercharged too, so there are a few extra steps for me.
Worked about 5 hours with a friend the second day and it's pretty much done. 80% of the work is done under the car. The steps are pretty easy, just time consuming (e.g. removing part of the exhaust so you can remove the starter so you can lock the flywheel. Which, might I add, made it extremely easy to torque the crank bolt to 235lbs. Took all of 5 seconds once the socket was on it.)
Yes, replace the timing cover seal/crank seal. From what I've read, it can essentially wear to the crank and existing HB, so it won't seal properly anymore with a new HB. I replaced mine (easy), and the old one was a little stretched, although there were no leaks by the crank.
Everything was easy and straightforward except removing/reinstalling the rack. That was hard, and took a significant chunk of the time. Very tricky to remove that thing, but doable. Once you get to it, removing the old balancer, pinning the crank, and installing the new balancer was seamless. Piece of cake.
Necessary tools:
-3-jaw puller that's small enough (can rent the Chrysler 3-jaw puller from Autozone for free)
-250lb ft torque wrench (rent from Autozone for free). Remember to torque everything correctly during reassembly.
-HB install tool
-pin kit (w/ 1/4" drill bit, assuming you have the same one as me)
-Red loctite to put on the crank bolt during reassembly
-high-temp RTV to fill in the keyway built into the HB that you don't use
-good box wrench set, ranging from 7mm up to 22mm
-a good socket set, with extensions of all sizes, in 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" drive. You'll need some deep well sockets as well.
-a 27mm 12-point impact socket to torque the ARP bolt (take note - 12-point, not 6-point! I got mine on sale for cheap at Harbor Freight)
-plastic bags or solo cups and a sharpie. Bag the hardware from each step and label the step by name and number. Makes reassembly much easier.
-patience. Don't rush it. Don't stress. It WILL take time, but it is pretty straightforward (except for the rack. the rack was a PITA.)
-power steering fluid
-pry bars of various sizes.
-drain pan, rags
-flashlight or mobile worklight
Optional: (that will make the job easier)
-a dial caliper is recommended to check the appropriate depth of the HB on the crank snout
-18mm crows feet wrenches are recommended for the 2 power steering lines that go into the rack (I didn't use them, but they would've saved me about 15-30min and some cuts on my hand).
-laptop/computer to reference while working. I would stop and pull up videos by "Froggy" and check my to-do list frequently.
-latex gloves that don't tear too easily. It is DIRTY and tight down in there. You'll be weaving your hands into weird places.
-a table/rolling cart to set tools while working on the car. Walking back and forth to the tool box got old QUICK.
-kitty litter for the inevitable mess you'll make with power steering fluid
-bungee cords (to hold hard brake lines out of the way when removing the rack)
-patience (this is not optional)
Take special care with the plug that is mounted on the steering rack. I don't even recall touching it, and the wires were ripped out of it. Had to pull the plug apart and re-solder the wires into it. That added another 30-40min to investigate and fix.
That's all I can think of. Wasn't too bad, and a lift was especially nice. Let me know if you have any other questions. I did a LOT of research on this job and it's all still fresh on my mind. I followed this tutorial pretty closely. It's on a C5 but the process was nearly identical, save for a few different tools/bolts.
Worked about 5 hours with a friend the second day and it's pretty much done. 80% of the work is done under the car. The steps are pretty easy, just time consuming (e.g. removing part of the exhaust so you can remove the starter so you can lock the flywheel. Which, might I add, made it extremely easy to torque the crank bolt to 235lbs. Took all of 5 seconds once the socket was on it.)
Yes, replace the timing cover seal/crank seal. From what I've read, it can essentially wear to the crank and existing HB, so it won't seal properly anymore with a new HB. I replaced mine (easy), and the old one was a little stretched, although there were no leaks by the crank.
Everything was easy and straightforward except removing/reinstalling the rack. That was hard, and took a significant chunk of the time. Very tricky to remove that thing, but doable. Once you get to it, removing the old balancer, pinning the crank, and installing the new balancer was seamless. Piece of cake.
Necessary tools:
-3-jaw puller that's small enough (can rent the Chrysler 3-jaw puller from Autozone for free)
-250lb ft torque wrench (rent from Autozone for free). Remember to torque everything correctly during reassembly.
-HB install tool
-pin kit (w/ 1/4" drill bit, assuming you have the same one as me)
-Red loctite to put on the crank bolt during reassembly
-high-temp RTV to fill in the keyway built into the HB that you don't use
-good box wrench set, ranging from 7mm up to 22mm
-a good socket set, with extensions of all sizes, in 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" drive. You'll need some deep well sockets as well.
-a 27mm 12-point impact socket to torque the ARP bolt (take note - 12-point, not 6-point! I got mine on sale for cheap at Harbor Freight)
-plastic bags or solo cups and a sharpie. Bag the hardware from each step and label the step by name and number. Makes reassembly much easier.
-patience. Don't rush it. Don't stress. It WILL take time, but it is pretty straightforward (except for the rack. the rack was a PITA.)
-power steering fluid
-pry bars of various sizes.
-drain pan, rags
-flashlight or mobile worklight
Optional: (that will make the job easier)
-a dial caliper is recommended to check the appropriate depth of the HB on the crank snout
-18mm crows feet wrenches are recommended for the 2 power steering lines that go into the rack (I didn't use them, but they would've saved me about 15-30min and some cuts on my hand).
-laptop/computer to reference while working. I would stop and pull up videos by "Froggy" and check my to-do list frequently.
-latex gloves that don't tear too easily. It is DIRTY and tight down in there. You'll be weaving your hands into weird places.
-a table/rolling cart to set tools while working on the car. Walking back and forth to the tool box got old QUICK.
-kitty litter for the inevitable mess you'll make with power steering fluid
-bungee cords (to hold hard brake lines out of the way when removing the rack)
-
Take special care with the plug that is mounted on the steering rack. I don't even recall touching it, and the wires were ripped out of it. Had to pull the plug apart and re-solder the wires into it. That added another 30-40min to investigate and fix.
That's all I can think of. Wasn't too bad, and a lift was especially nice. Let me know if you have any other questions. I did a LOT of research on this job and it's all still fresh on my mind. I followed this tutorial pretty closely. It's on a C5 but the process was nearly identical, save for a few different tools/bolts.
The following 2 users liked this post by theandrewo:
Beef97 (09-05-2018),
Underachieved (02-02-2019)
09-05-2018, 11:36 PM
#14
Dude you've probably saved me hours of work! You are awesome! I'll be referring back to this for sure as well as some of the other suggestions and pictures in this forum. I love this place! Seriously I can't thank you enough for taking that much time to write back, you get my vote for president of the corvette forum!
09-11-2018, 03:21 PM
#15
Pro
Thread Starter
Dude you've probably saved me hours of work! You are awesome! I'll be referring back to this for sure as well as some of the other suggestions and pictures in this forum. I love this place! Seriously I can't thank you enough for taking that much time to write back, you get my vote for president of the corvette forum!
09-21-2018, 03:22 PM
#16
Pro
Thread Starter
Dude you've probably saved me hours of work! You are awesome! I'll be referring back to this for sure as well as some of the other suggestions and pictures in this forum. I love this place! Seriously I can't thank you enough for taking that much time to write back, you get my vote for president of the corvette forum!
09-24-2018, 09:58 AM
#17
Not yet! I got an install bolt off of ebay for around $15, got the arp bolt, seal, balancer and radiator ready to go......just thinking of if I want to do anything else while I'm in there! I'll be probably getting a turn one billet power steering pulley and maybe a katech tensioner also. Noticed that Katech usually does a sale right around black Friday but thinking I could just install that at a later time. Thanks for checking up on me, I'll let you know when I start tearing it down!
