clearwaterms

I did my first track day this past weekend. Except for high oil temperatures; the car ran great. It is certainly more capable than I am. So far the car is a stock 08 base model. I already upgraded the brake fluid and pads.

In each of the sessions towards the 2nd half of the session the car started to state "high oil temperature" when that happened I backed off and did a cool down lap or two until it went away. The coolant temperature got hot into the 250's but i let it cool down to 220 and then went back at it. What other must do upgrades should I start planning for to ensure the car is reliable.

Oil Cooler; which one does everybody recommend; DRM, Z06 retrofit, universal kit /w thermostat block?
Do brake ducts help?

what else?

Dano523

Base module does not have an oil cooler, so kept that in mind to start with. Also, does not have trans coolers, must less diff coolers, so more coolers that need to be add on to high speed road course the car for longer peroids.

So depending on how deep your want to go down the HPDE rabbit hole, may be better selling the base model than modifying it, and picking up a Z06 that is high speed road course built to start with isntead. Hence on a wet sump motor and high enough long G turns, first order of business is a Accusump so the motor does not oil stave.

The Z06 runs a dry sump motor, and you will hard fetched to oil stave that motor in a high G long corner. And this is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the items on the Z06, since again, it was factory built to run as a high speed road course car from the start:: and will cost you much more to bring a base model up to the needed mods, then to sell it and pick up a Z06 isntead.

If you don't want to go Z06, then at least a GS model since it will have at least most off the stuff is needs to run high speed road coarse (GS is factory built as an autocross).

jonjoy

VERY easy to kill two birds with one stone, get a DeWitts rad with EOC and wa-la very much lower temps both water and oil , ALL LS motors have the EOC tap right above the oil filter on the side of the block.

sccaGT1racer

Ron Davis radiator with oil cooler. Doug rippie Motorsports sells the whole kit.

clearwaterms

To Dano's point will that upgrade be enough for HPDE? I don't even know how to track transmission temps, differential temps, etc. Also, will a beginner on 320TW tires even cause enough issues on those components? Would I be better suited to upgrade the entire car? I don't mind spending the money but would rather spend it once rather than $1000 here / $1000 there only to find that I should have just upgraded the entire car. Also, how hard is the radiator job in a garage with no lift? I believe it involves pulling the bumper cover.


Can somebody confirm this is the radiator?
http://dougrippie.com/products/ron-d...hand-side-eoc/
It's that /w the line kit?

What about brake cooling ducts? Are those needed? The brakes got hot/smelly during my sessions but never didn't work

clearwaterms

I actually really like the targa top capability. When I run autocross I like to keep the top off as it means I can sit a bit more upright and have better visibility over the front of the car with out having to worry about my helmet hitting the roof. in order to have clearance for my helmet, I need to either recline the seat ever so slightly or slouch my shoulders.

Also, I thought the z51 was the autocross from the factory car (shorter gearing, extra cooling, stiffer suspsension, etc.) and the GS was the hybrid between the z06 and z51 (z06 brakes, z51 driveline, mishmash of z51 and z06 suspension, wide body exterior, steel frame)

kgh06688

My 2 cents is it depends on what your goal is. I knew I'd be tracking mine, so I got a Z51 (couldn't afford a Z06). If you want to smash track records, then get a Z06 or at least a Z51, probably less expensive than upgrading a base coupe to that level (of course it depends on what you can afford). If you are just going out to have fun and work on your track driving skills, then a few upgrades on your base coupe should be okay. Keep in mind though, the more you track it, the faster you'll get, the more you'll need higher performance bits. Go with an oil cooler. It should also help keep your coolant temps down too, but get a larger capacity radiator too, just to be safe. Upgrade at least your front brakes to J55. That shouldn't be too expensive. All you'll need are the larger rotors and J55 caliper brackets. The calipers are the same as a base. And, as you touched on, go ahead and do brake cooling ducts. Least expensive and easiest is to get Z06 ducts. My local Chevy dealer actually had them in stock, $18.00 each. You have already upgraded the pads. If you didn't have any problems with what you put on, stick with them.

Fishy Dave

I have a 2007 base and use it on road, trackdays and sprinting. I have upgraded the radiator to this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/64MM-for-...oAAOSw32lYwBM7
It's a thicker core and has kept water temps down nicely.
Next I fitted the oil cooler kit from Improved racing, it's not cheap but is high quality and I've never seen track temps higher than 255: http://www.improvedracing.com/oil-co...600-p-768.html
Adding the cheap Z06 brake ducts will help, I've kept an eye on temps using AP caliper strips and paint https://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-2013-C...-/281605705202. You will probably still melt the standard caliper seals though.

I don't have a diff or gearbox cooler yet as they are pretty pricey things to add, so tend to limit my sessions to short intervals with a couple of cool down laps before going again hard for a few laps and then cooling down etc.


This clip was before I added better tyres, a geo set up, Z51 sway bars and Z06 dampers, it's certainly better now.

Cheers, Dave

clearwaterms

What are the normal air temps and what is your oil and coolant temps during a day? The z51 cooler looks like around $225 and the line kit another $140 so for around $400 I can get a factory z51 oil cooler. The cost of

Which brake pads do you run? I had installed EBC yellow stuff pads but i fear that I overheated and glazed/destroyed the front pads so I put the factory pads (which have plenty of life left) and initial bite is restored. Have you upgraded the rotor size to the z51 /w the larger bracket? That would cost me around $200 for the rotors and brackets but I just replaced the rotors so if I can get another season out of the rotors that I have with just track specific pads that would be ideal.

Do you find the z51/z06 setup sufficient if you could do it again would you still do the z06 shocks or would you look at aftermarket? I still have the original sway bars and stock shocks (which are now 11 years old and have 45k miles on them)

Fishy Dave

We have a fair range of weathers in the UK, the hottest I've driven it on track was 88F ambient. Having researched oil cooling on here I read enough reports that many find the limits of the Z51 oil cooling on track, plus you'd need to add the cost of a thermostat, so went for a big one right away.

Mintex kindly made pads just for my car, using the F4R compound on the front and 1155 on the rear. I was using standard sized discs in that video, but have Z51 brackets and EBC Z51 sized discs now, no noticeable difference in stopping power but these haven't cracked yet. You may be fine with standard discs, just don't buy drilled ones.

As for the suspension, it's definitely better with the Z51/Z06 set up and is still comfortable on the road, but is still too soft on an undulating track. For the bargain cost I'm happy, but perhaps the Z51 sway bars and an adjustable damper is the better way to go. Part of me is stubborn in wanting to keep the monoleafs, there is a certain sentimentality in keeping the original set up rather than opting for the probably superior coil overs. Any change is probably better than the standard set up you have.

KNSBrakes

You can find a more track oriented brake pad than EBC yellow. There are lots of good choices.

And get the biggest oil cooler you can. I had a 'kit' at first and it only took them from 270ish to 250 ish at VIR. I put a full with Setrab in front of my radiator and it won't go above 230 now.

If you do the front Z51 brakes you are front biasing the car some.

-Ken

clearwaterms

Thanks for the tips; A few questions if you don't mind.

Is my diagnosis of the pads correct? The current pads are glass smooth in the middle and the outer edges of them have crumbled and are very soft to the touch (my finger nail digs in with the slightest effort) In looking at pictures online of other overheated pads they appear similar.

Are the EBC brake pads just not that good that I overheated a set as a beginner in just 3 sessions? Is this a result of the higher weight and higher horsepower of the corvette combined with little directed airflow? It appears that only the front pads were effected.

Track nights in america is passing through next week and I was hoping to participate. Would it be okay to run a few session on the OE pads or given the experience that I had /w the EBC's I am asking for trouble and should find a set of pads.

Thank you in advance.

KNSBrakes

Some crumbling/cracking is normal especially on the small base / C5 sized brakes.

The glazing however causes the loss of brake power - no good.

The OEM base pads are street pads so if used hard at some point a similar result would be expected.

Driving hard on track confidently does seem to be more fun with good brakes. I'd do track fluid and probably a pad swap and rotor cleanup.

-Ken

clearwaterms

thank you - i will post a photograph of the pads later today/tonight and you guys can tell me if they can be safely sanded down and reused or if I should expect that the pads will need to be replaced.

SkittlesRgood

For brakes:
Definitely get the z06 ducts and then add hose to bring the air to the caliper. I got my base brakes so hot, it was hard to stand next to the wheels to air down the tires after one session. I'm using raybestos pads and swapping them to some regular pad, that doesn't squeal like a banshee, when I'm not on the track. I have glazed brake pads before and I wouldn't recommend sanding them. you wont have a flat surface anymore and will reduce your contact area with the rotor, until you wear down the pads and the rotor to match. I drove with my glazed pads for a while and they eventually returned to normal, though that was on a car with slotted rotors so that might have helped shave the glazed layer off.

Cooling:
Definitely do as much as you can. I installed a Z51 cooler cause it has an EOC and transmission cooler built in but ultimately went with dedicated coolers and wish I had gotten a real performance radiator. I got a cheap ebay kit for an EOC but its about half the size of the radiator. Also used a thermostat adapter that bolts to the engine block (replacing the stock loop-back plate, allowing oil cooler lines). The second half of my radiator is mostly covered by a transmission cooler now. Those two have worked well, temps stay much lower, and I didn't break the bank on setrab coolers or a z06 cooler. But there's one more thing to keep cool, your power steering fluid. Mine boils over every track day, and a z06 cooler didn't help. We're pretty fucked on the rear diff as far as cooling goes.

Oil starvation:
a baffled oil pan would be great, but just remember to add an extra quart of oil when you go to the track and you should be fine.

As for the car, I disagree that you can't have an awesome car for less than a z06. I've made the cooling upgrades, bought z06 springs, aftermarket sway bars, and bilstein shocks for probably not much more than you'd lose on the tax you paid for the base C6. Then tires and brakes will be a lot more expensive with the z06 and those are your main consumables. That being said, if you track your car you'll be breaking and fixing things all the time and when nothing broke you'll be looking for more performance parts to go faster. That'll be true no matter what car you buy lol.

godzilladude

At some point you'll have to think about tires. If you just run your street ones, you will really shorten their life. The old rule of thumb was a weekend HPDE would take maybe 20-25% of the tread life. And how soft and sticky do you want them? I run Michelin PS4S, pull over 1 g all day long. But they cost a few bucks. See if I can get two years out of them.

Lots of folks keep a spare set of wheels with track tires. Go look at the Racing section of this forum, always folks selling off used tires that might not be good enough for competition, but should work for a while as an upgrade over street.

For that matter, if you are going to be pushing it hard, the factory wheels are not a very good choice. They are pressure cast, which is better than cast, but not nearly as good as forged. Don't want to have a wheel snap on you out there.

Purple92

So - the "standard" answer as far as what to put money into with respect to tracking the car is:

Safety Gear First
Brakes 2nd
Then Tires / Suspension
Last - Power

With respect to braking - the C6's have Good to Great Brakes. You need to get a pad that will survive the abuse you'll be giving them on the track. I won't suggest what brand to run - but pick a pad that can take the temp, and ANY extra cooling you can feed to the rotors will help. Take an IR gun and actually measure the rotor temp after a session. BUT - you also have to learn to use the brakes. Get on them, get the car slowed down - then get off them !!! Yes, trail braking is a thing, and Yes - it's one of the tools in the toolbox for the semi-pro and pro driver, but you're a beginner. Get the basics down - then worry about learning the more advanced stuff. So ... Work on using the brakes at the right time, using them aggressively enough to get the car whoa-ed down, and the application and release rates, but your foot shouldn't be on the WHOA pedal any more than is absolutely necessary.

Tires are probably the single biggest thing in reducing lap times. However - understand that when you start running Street Legal "R" compound rubber - you are pretty much not going out any time there is standing water (and that includes driving back home after a track event). Those "R" Compound tires grip amazingly well - but they typically have about 4/32" tread and I'd bet another 1/32 of that goes away on the first lap (this is one to minimize the tread "squirming" under heavy cornering loads - which causes the tires to heat very fast, and to wear very fast). If you hit standing water with that little tread - it's barely different from hitting water with full on slicks - you are almost guaranteed to hydroplane.. . I generally tell students - stick to street type rubber until you see that you're generating slip angles that are hurting the tires (both Front AND Rear). Then - go to the "next level" (typically "R" Compound) tire. But - be aware what the compromise you're making there involves !!!!

Shocks, anti-sway bars and springs are going to impact how the car handles - - particularly at the limit, but they also impact how much "Fun" the car is to drive on the street. There is a reason that they put rubber in suspension bushings for street driven cars. I'd suggest spending the money on yourself, and getting more seat time will be a far better investment than springs and shocks...

IMHO - do a better Radiator and and either a built in oil cooler, or a separate external oil cooler. You don't want oil much over 260, and keeping the coolant at under 220 is also a good thing... A decent Rad and an oil cooler should be able to accomplish that without breaking the bank.

clearwaterms

this thread has turned mostly into a thread about track days

so i decided to start one specifically for autocross
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-a-street.html