My 06 Vert is equipped with stock heads (LS2), Eforce and Crane Quick lift roller rockers. I spray meth through the intake, progressive spray, beginning at about 3 thousand RPM for its octane value. Each of these upgrades resulted in an improvement over stock. I also added a 2800 Yank Converter which was good for 3 or 4 tenths in the quarter mile. Looking at adding a cam to the mix if it will result in improving my quarter mile performance. With the Eforce and stock heads, I'm not sure there is a cam that will actually improve my quarter mile time. If I can lower my ET by 2 or 3 tenths by adding a cam, I can say I've found my winter project. I know the flow rate of the stock heads and the Eforce as well as the converter and spraying meth all impact cam selection and perhaps my current configuration limits any improvement that may be gained by adding a cam. I need someone much more knowledgeable in the area of cam selection who can answer the question of whether or not adding a cam to this mix will offer any improvement in performance.

 

I am not going to attempt to answer your question ... but, I just want to warn you about spraying meth into the intake when you have a roots type blower (E-Force, Heartbeat or Whipple) supercharger.

As I have heard from many different people, spraying meth will cause longevity problems with the rotors in the supercharger.

If you need higher octane, I would recommend modifying the engine to run on E85 and not spray meth into your intake (so it won't damage your SC rotor group).

Maybe someone else here will comment on this ...

 

Thanks for the heads-up concerning spraying meth through the intake. No problems yet or over these past several years of spraying. the last time I had a look at the blower, everything looked good. No drop off in performance or any indication of a problem with spraying so far. But I know and have seen pictures of people who have reported of problems. I just haven't experienced them or have had any indication of any problems associated with spraying.

 

How are you set up now? What size blower pulley? Is the crank pulley stock size or different? With the converter you have, you can certainly accommodate more camshaft.

I've had six p/d blowers since 2005. All of them have had either meth or WW fluid injected. The WW fluid usually was a 50/50 mix of meth and water (the well below 0 F mix) None have had any problems. Yes, I've seen the pics Magnuson floated about to dissuade folks from using meth, water, etc. It looked like someone ran sand and gravel through the blower. I had one blower in particular that had over 250K miles before a bearing let go. Rotors were blue, but still looked good. I haven't run into one single person on the net that has had damage from meth or various combo's of meth and water.

If you want to go faster and do it safely, add flex fuel into the mix. With E85, you get more octane and also intake air cooling. All p/d blowers should have this if trying to make more power safely.

 

Old Motorhead, I'm currently making about 10lbs of boost with I believe the 3.5" pully. Not interested in increasing boost beyond current 10lbs. I have ALKY Controls Methanol Injection system using 100 percent Meth. Injecting Meth has allowed for advancing timing without knock and faster quarter mile times. I have not investigated using E85. My current set up has been in play for the past 5 years without any problems. I was just looking for a performance upgrade that could possibly give me 2 or more tenths in the quarter mile. I was wondering if a cam would do this or if my current set up would not benefit from changing out the stock cam.

 

You add a blower cam and power goes up a little and boost goes down. You pulley down a notch and boost gets back to where it was before the cam swap and power goes up again. Whether that's worth 2 tenths? I know you see plenty of TVS2300's making mid 600's with a mild blower cam and less than 10psi. I've had two. I don't know of any TVS2300's making over 600 with the stock cam. And you don't need a big ill mannered blower cam to do it.

Now add E85 into the mix and IAT's go down, power goes up, and the safety net is better.

 

Are you running headers? If not, they should help quite a lot.

As for a cam, even a small blower cam will definitely help.

 

I am running headers, Cooks long tubes, full exhaust with Corsa Sport. Edelbrock does offer a smaller pully than I am currently running so I can pully down to regain boost lost by adding a cam. I have not looked into E85 but am interested in its potential. IAT's are always an issue with the Eforce. I work at keeping IAT's between 115 and 130 degrees by adding ice to the intercooler reservoir at the track. My set up's best ET is 11.1 with a DA of 8,000. Typical DA's at Bandimere run between 7,500 and 9,500. Perhaps a blower cam and E85 conversion will lower my ET,s into the 10,s.

 

I would think so. How many miles on your engine?

 

Not sure if e85 would help if you are already running meth. Others can chime in on that as I am not very knowledgeable in that area.

For IAT control and faster recovery, I am running a Cordes Performance larger reservoir and the larger Edelbrock radiator that the ZR1 guys use. Helps a lot.

Even if you lose some boost with a blower cam, the increased volumetric efficiency from the cam will more than make up for it and as has been said, you can also pulley down.

But remember, LS engines respond extremely well to even small cams. One of the many reasons the LS platform is so good.

 

My 06 Vert with removable hard top has 33,000 miles. I am the only owner and put on approximately 20,000 before adding the Eforce. For the past several years mileage is basically to the track and home or 2,000 miles per year. I end up changing oil about every 2K miles or sooner because of Track use. I have a large Moroso Aluminum intercooler reservoir and larger DeWitts Radiator with transmission and oil coolent lines. I added the oil coolent line option to my LS2. I also have manual control of my fans and manual control of intercooler pump so I can pump Ice water through the interooler between runs in an effort to bring down IAT's.

Will going E85 eliminate the need to spray meth or can you do both?

 

After a bit of research, it appears that my current stock LS2 fuel pump and BAP will not support E85. If I am to go E85 I would loose the Alky System and upgrade to the appropriate fuel pump. I have an A6 which complicates the fuel pump upgrade a bit and am not sure I want to tackle that project at the same time I'm changing out the cam. Will check into an appropriate blower cam for my configuration and go from there.

 

Not No, but Hell No on the 100% methanol with a TVS2300. Hence at the lower boost your are running, only need a little bit of meth to increase the octane levels, and what you really need is the 50% distilled water in the mix to prevent heat soak, so hit after hit does not end up with the TVS becoming a heat pump to heat soak the engine instead.

As for if you are running 2-7/8" tube headers (and even high flow cats), then just increase the booth pressure, and again, switch over your mix to 50% meth, and 50% distilled water with the new tune.

Even at 15lb boost (will run ls9 at 26lb boost since they have lower compression to start with), 50/50 mix will cover you for the needed octane increase on pump fuel, and regarding the water, so much positives that is not funny.
First off, the water will prevent heat soak in the first place.
Second, with the mix of water and meth down the TVS, runners, and past the intake vavles, keeps then clean. Hence got to remember that the PCV system is throwing oil mist into the engine, so the meth/water mix helps to clean that mess out as well.
Third, since the water will turn to steam on the cylinder ignition stroke, your gaining more HP on the down stroke as well.
Lastly, since we are talking steam in the cylinder during ignition stroke and exhuast stroke, it's cleaning not only the top of piston and bottom of head, but the exhaust valve as well. Hence the most oil and carbon you have in the cyclinder, the more you can get detonation problems requring higher overall octane ratings.

So bottom line, cam is all about how an engine breaths to make power, and when you are force feeding an engine isntead, not much to be gained with different cam, when you still have so much more boost that you can gain power via just changing out the TVS pulley.
So stock motor with headers and TVS, should be at slightly over 650hp at the crank, which is way safe for the stock LS2.
If your looking to push 700hp +, can still get you there, but we need to upgrade a few things on the motors, due to the increased amount of pressure your pushing through it. Down and dirty, just thicker head gaskets solves the problem for say 700hp since it lowers the motor's compression, and allows us to use more boost to bring the HP up higher.

As for past 700hp, then we get into heat soak problems with the TVS2300 due to the speed we are spinning it to make boost, and even meth kit will water will have a hard time keeping up with the heat. Due to the increase in motor heat, the .006 gap on the piston rings will not work, since the increased heat will cause them to grow in length, go to zero gap, and end binding to the cylinder walls to snap the head off the pistons. also, that a lot of pressure to throw at stock piston rods, so really want to upgrade the piston and connecting rods as the same time. Crank, good for 1K Hp, so it's Golden. Heads, porting is a must, since it not the flow into the heads the problem so much since we are using boost to feed the cylinders, but getting the exhaust out the heads instead. Also since we are talking boost, the more volume you have in the heads and the lower the compression, the more boost we can use to gain more power So increasing the volume of the heads is a good thing as well.

As for pushing 800hp and over, forget the TVS2300, since it too small/will created to much heat spun to that boost level, and we need to be in the TVS-2650. Think the differance between a 6-71 and 8-71, and with the smaller TVS blower, your having to spin it dam near up to wash, and just making way too much heat since it not effective at that speed/pressure per volume.

 

To add, if you are looking to gain speed/time on the 1/4 mile, just work with what you have now, and dial in TM instead.
Hence there is no way that your not using Torque management with blower to begin with, and would dare to guess that its still on the heavy side to begin with from the Dyno tune in the first place.

 

Dano523, Thank you for all your suggestions and information. Still trying to digest it all. I have done all my own tuning via HP tuners at the track, Test and Tune nights, data logging, analyzing and changing tune for optimum performance with no knock. Have never tried a 50/50 mix but I follow what you are suggesting. I assume the TVS 2300 is similar to the E-force in performance characteristics. However, I have not changed my tune for the past 3 years so you have given me a whole new approach to my current configuration. Unfortunately, our season is over and will have to wait for spring to give the 50/50 mix a test. I do my tuning at the track and not on a Dyno. I will look into changing out my 3.5" pully to a smaller one for more boost but first I will optimize with a 50/50 mix.

 

Boost is a measure of the engine's resistance to getting air into the cylinder and, to some extent, out of the cylinder. Blower cam, ported cylinder heads, and a free flowing exhaust all will lower boost. Lowering boost will also lower intake air temps. No matter how much meth, water, whatever, you inject, you're still fighting IAT's if you're running any type blower where the "whatever" is injected before the air is compressed. It's just not an efficient use of the "whatever". And "whatever" won't eliminate heat soak. Heat soak comes from areas other than just the compression of intake air.

If you already have a free flowing exhaust (as in long tube headers, no or high flow cats, and a decent cat back), the easiest way to reduce boost is with a blower cam. With the cam upgrade, there's less resistance getting air into the cylinder and less resistance getting it out. Less resistance = less boost = less heat = mo powa. When you add a blower cam, you also make more power without boost. That means there's that much less intake air compression (heat) you need to add to hit your power goals. A set of ported heads would be the icing on the cake. I wouldn't port them unless you had to take them off for a lifter change or other reasons. If they had to come off, port them. If they don't have to come off, leave them as is.

Reducing static compression ratio is about the last thing I would do on a street driven TVS blown LS engine. You only have so much blower capacity. Reducing static CR means you need to turn the blower faster to make the same power. Turning the blower faster = more heat = less powa.

Do what you can to help the intercooler system. Better heat exchanger, bigger tank, upgrading the coolant pump will all help with IAT management. Magnuson claims that a 10 degree improvement in IAT's = a 1% improvement in power. Also a cooler running engine will help with IAT's. If you start your run with a cooler engine, everything the air touches on the way into the cylinder and including the cylinder is going to be cooler.

 

Thanks to everyone for a lot of great helpful information. Upgrading to a blower cam is not out of the question and is still in play. I will be looking for a supplier who can spec a cam based on my configuration. I plan to stick with my Methanol Injection system but change to a 50/50 mix. I have gone through 3 pully configs and currently running the 3.25" pully. It has been so long since I have changed anything, I forgot that I changed from the 3.5" pully for the 3.25" pully. Blower cam, pully down and 50/50 mix is what I am considering for now. Always open to suggestions.

 

750whp on e85, at 10 psi boost. Many set ups in this range, IMO.

 

Roots type blower is your first and biggest problem. Should have went pro charger

 

So helpful.