hah. It is my dream to stuff a giant blanket into my engine bay one day. Careful observers will note that plastic insulating manifolds and covers have been accumulating on internal combustion engines as the years increase.

If people want the most energy from the fuel we must spend money on, it is necessary. Otherwise heat lost is as a grill with an open lid, takes more gas and more flame to keep the food cooking with the lid open, heats all the air around it with your gas, and that gas is expensive. Or not. If gas is free then it doesn't matter for a grill - but you still wouldn't want energy from gas that is going heat underhood electronics. Just because in the event their life expectancy is only reduced a few years doesn't make it 'negligible difference' as some seem to suggest.

 

Stay skeptical. I have a feeling a lot of this talk is based on engineering stats and concept,
Again o am not saying insulation is not of value, but I think people really overthink things and create problems in their head that does not exist.
If not for anything else, the internet is good at fostering too deep thinking and making non critical issues critical.

 

Nobody is talking. Everybody is doing. Every auto manufacturer in the world is increasing engine insulation. Every power plant in the world is going up in temperature and retaining more heat and more energy. That is engineering and math. And it is happening. And if you ignore it then... you get what you get. You will never be at the top. Ignoring math and engineering because you lack the ability to do the math and engineering isn't a counter argument. lmao

If you eat whatever you want because you lack the ability to count calories and assess basic protein requirements.... does not mean you will be healthy and immune to the negative consequences. What you can't see, can hurt you

 

Every car manufacturer is also neutering the experience of their cars with the added weight and insulation. Not only for heat, but probably mostly for sound deadening.

I won’t even say we agree to disagree, because I agree extra heat insulation provides a value, I just don’t fully agree this to be such an issue as the engineers in the thread are making it to me, esp in a C6

 

there is no real argument/discussion on this subject without math. When we look at an OEM engine with insulation, we are looking at math. Engineers have calculated heat loss and residual component heating. We can see thick manifolds and OEM heat shields on exhaust tubes in almost every vehicle.
If you want to make a valid argument you either
A. Need to do your own math , setup equation and present the argument in an engineering sense in terms of kW of heating
B. Point to at least 3x samples of OEM installations from various(different) manufacturers with insulation to make general observation
C. Produce examples using empirical testing in your own applications, e.g. IR thermometer readings around a custom engine bay

For example we saw a picture of several engines with heavy insulation here in this thread. Some of them are OEM insulations. That is clearly heat insulating, not sound proofing, around the exhaust system rofl

You can alternatively calculate your own heat loss by carefully going from fuel @ BSFC, to heat product @ efficiency (year/technology dependent), and setup an equation to determine whatever fraction of power isn't at the tires, the rest is heat lost to fluids & materials. I've done it a couple times on this forum for oil cooling and water cooling examples. Its just time consuming.

The learning pace accumulates after performing such calculations over many years and after examining various OEM installations and finally building your own vehicle and taking IR measurements around the engine bay and getting to understand the Flow work and Energy equations which govern applied mathematics of exhaust gas conservation of energy. After 25 years of turbo cars and flow work I always insulate no matter what, it is common sense now, even on a normal daily driver there is benefits.

And here is an example video I made of 3. IR readings

Its not the best video production but you can easily see the temperature of the coils and valve cover is much too high without inulations.
It should be near the temp of hot engine oil 210*F~ in a daily driver, or there will develop reliability issues.

Therefore, I have shown in MY application using an empirical investigation that insulation is absolutely mandatory at the very minimum to protect the engine and electronics.
If you wish to make a similar argument against said insulation you would also need an empirical measurement to collect data and present your argument... and it would only apply to that exact copy of your installation as mine does, which is why I never bothered showing the video in this argument because it only applies to my install. Its more of a thought, thinking process, a sequence, than a specificity

 

Wrapping your pipes ain't all lollipops, sunshine, and rainbows. They will wear out faster. Even stainless will. Try warranting your headers after they've been wrapped and corrosion has set in. Good luck with that. Not saying there aren't apps where wrapping is the smart thing to do. Your average street Vette doesn't belong in that category though.

 

I wouldn't even waste your keystrokes arguing with this dude. any post, ever, over the years is the exact same MO

 

Yeah don't listen to any doctors or engineers using math. Its got to be wrong. Im sure of it. i can't do math but I sure as hell can disagree with it. And inflict others with my fear of the unknown

 

I didn't post this to start arguments, I simply wanted to see if others have found creative ways for heat management on these cars. Kingtal0n, you definitely gave me some ideas for future projects. Getting materials from the local pull apart is a great idea.

 

That is absolutely true from what I've researched. I was about to wrap them with DEI Titanium wrap but decided against it and wanted something safer and more permanent. The shields I use only cover to top half of the pipe, it lets them breathe and avoid all the issues of the traditional wrap.

This video convinced me, you can see how much more effective the material is over the wrap and without all the drawbacks

 

I've never seen wrap ruin a quality exhaust tube in an engine bay. Its not possible, simply given the time and deterioration rate at the correct thickness. Cheap paper thin stainless junk has an issue, of course. The cars I tune have turbochargers and thick wall manifolds. People think stainless is the ideal exhaust material for some reason but if its thin paper its junk and will crack and deteriorate whether you've got wrap or not. When exhaust metals are heated they are easily attacked by oxygen from the air, that is why all exhaust eventually rusts faster than surrounding materials, chemistry. Look at a turbine housing even with some quality ceramic coatings eventually it too begins to rust. There is no way to stop that from happening if you actually drive the car every day, wrapped or not. But they survive because they are thick walled metals, the metal rusts and deteriorates but its so thick it lasts 50 years anyways. That is the kind of exhaust you want for a daily driver. Wrap it, rust it, heat it, react it, doesn't matter, too thick.

Wrap is garbage anyways. All this talk of wrap like its the only option, the only way, that is just crazy. I can't stand wrap. I only use it because I am forced to. Its an amazing insulator, cheap fast and easy to use that I can trust for 10 to 15 years on thick walled turbo manifolds. Natural aspiration confuses me, I'm not sure why anybody would want that in the first place, I can run 1psi of boost or 25psi of boost with the turn of a ****, I am N/A when I wish, but I would never turn it down that far, even 87 octane supports a third of an atmosphere additional on modern chambers for almost any engine ever produced, you are leaving 30% power on the table across the board without an air pump somewhere.

If you can afford to actually do things right on an engine you won't even consider wrap or natural aspiration- the 'right' way is a quality ceramic coating and a series of heat shields with an air gap. It is nearly as effective as wrap and you get to avoid the itching messy flakes of skin piercing dust that collects around the vehicle while it sits. Its just infinitely more difficult to customize, apply, organize, shape, those shields, if you are not a machinist facility with the necessary tools. Most seem not to have the time or perhaps tools necessary to complete such a task, they'd rather bolt something in. But there are no complete bolt-in shielding systems for myriad assorted exhaust systems, at least not usually. It isn't common. But the alternative of doing something yourself, making an attempt, having motivation, clarity, ideas, ... is just doing nothing? That is what they want you to believe... that doing nothing is an answer. To be satisfied with nothing since he has nothing, so everybody might as well also have nothing. They want to limit you, level the playing field with anecdotal bullshit because they lack the courage, motivation, vision to do more for themselves. You know what? If you can't be bothered to pick up a thermometer and have an idea you deserve what you get

 

I'm not even disagreeing with your points. That said, you have a tendency to zero in on a specific technical angle in a way that can derail the broader conversation. It shifts the thread from an exchange of ideas to a deep-dive into theoretical metrics, which typically dilutes the overall usefulness of the discussion, or at the very least takes it in a direction the OP did not intend. So, while I am genuinely interested in hearing creative solutions that people have come up with, the thread is starting to veer into BSFC values and intricate thermal calculations. You're clearly a smart guy, but given the opportunity to overanalyze something, you take it 10/10 times.

That said, I actually agree with your end goal—

I’m looking to insulate my engine bay even further as well. At the moment, I’ve got my fuel lines, catalytic converters, starter, and intake all insulated, but the headers still dump a tremendous amount of heat into the engine bay. Beyond any performance concerns (even just IATs), we're talking about a nearly 20-year-old car. This kind of heat isn’t doing any favors to the longevity of the surrounding components and materials. I’m fairly certain the stock manifolds didn’t radiate quite this much heat, but I can't really remember to say for sure. As for the setup in the OP - I just wish the components were a bit longer. As it stands, it looks a bit unfinished or cheap. Maybe with a bit more time with a hammer and zip ties, it could work. Though I really like the idea.

 

If money was no factor, I would have went with Inconel but it's pricy and doesn't look much different from mine. The "incomplete look" is for clearance. I only put it where it was important for the engine bay heat, the headers sit so close to the frame, they wouldn't fit if I covered everything. Once they are installed, you shouldn't be able to see any exposed piping unless you are under the car.

As for IAT's, I made my own cowl and modified the plastic in front of the radiator so it would funnel air directly into the air filter. This really helped in keeping IAT's consistent.

.

 

I have the beehive from halltech which is functionally the same, have you measured your IATs? It's been a while, and I don't remember what mine are. I think it's easily the single biggest thing that will dictate power as IATs can very quickly adjust timing. I know some have asked about opening the NACA duct to the sealed off area so that ambient air can enter but halltech warns it could cause surgining with their intake.

I looked a little more into the stamped steel/aluminum heat shields. I like the concept. How malleable is it? If you are trying to influence IATs I do agree that you don't need to go all the way to the collector, the primaries are the biggest offenders. Now, I understand the man in this video is spot welding, but if you were patient you could end up with a decent looking piece. I would be seeking to use metal zip ties, but wouldn't be opposed to adding a spot weld here or there to create tension.


There also is header armor which comes with the insulation backed stamped aluminum which can withstand continuous 1800F, (but much more expensive) whereas aluminum alone has a melting point of around 1200F. Would make me nervous on a dyno run or pushing the car....... even below melting point it could compromise the integrity of the piece.

The peastorm was on my radar before, and the reviews are very strong. At $30-$40 it is likely worth testing out, as it comes with the insulating material as well. peastorm advertises continuous 1000F capability. I don't think im allowed to link it here.

 

Well, to anyone thinking of doing this, be ready to fight trying to get them in. I had to lower my subframe to fit the headers with my heatshields and after that struggle, my entire engine bay was covered in fiberglass. Also, like rsb213 mentioned, the finish wasn't great and it didn't look professional once installed. I pulled them out again and ended up getting a ceramic coating. The bare 1 7/8" ARH slipped right in without even needing to remove the starter.