Quiz: which is "faster"?
Thread Starter
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From: CA
Quiz: which is "faster"?
With all the extreme focus on 1/4 mile ets, I have a
quiz I'd like to pose.
1. Which would you rather have: a vette which runs
consistent 12.5s @ 111 mph or a vette which runs
consistent 12.9s @ 117 mph? Assume same tires,
track, car weight, etc.
2. Which vette pulls harder down the track?
Pat
quiz I'd like to pose.
1. Which would you rather have: a vette which runs
consistent 12.5s @ 111 mph or a vette which runs
consistent 12.9s @ 117 mph? Assume same tires,
track, car weight, etc.
2. Which vette pulls harder down the track?
Pat
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From: I was a young troubadour when I rode in on a song, and I'll be an old troubadour when I'm gone.
St. Jude Donor '08
117 is faster than 111.
12.5 is quicker than 12.9.
Quick and fast are two different things.
That being said, I would think that as close as those numbers are, you would notice little, if any, difference in seat of the pants feeling at a track.
12.5 is quicker than 12.9.
Quick and fast are two different things.
That being said, I would think that as close as those numbers are, you would notice little, if any, difference in seat of the pants feeling at a track.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Short Hills, NJ
Originally Posted by X-FireChance
Trap speed is typically a better indicator of horsepower than is E.T.
The truth is, as alluded to above, a 117 mph trap speed is easily an 11 second car with some tires under it.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Houston, TX
117. The truth is, damn few people run for ultimate acceleration from a dead stop on the street. The 117 would indicate that the car is significanlty faster once rolling.
If drag racing is your thing, the lower et wins every time. But if street driving is your thing, the higher trap speed is a better indicator of how the car will really run in typical driving. BTW, I'm not above an impromtu run against someone esle on the street if conditions permit, and I can say that 98% of the time is while already rolling - not from a dead stop.
If drag racing is your thing, the lower et wins every time. But if street driving is your thing, the higher trap speed is a better indicator of how the car will really run in typical driving. BTW, I'm not above an impromtu run against someone esle on the street if conditions permit, and I can say that 98% of the time is while already rolling - not from a dead stop.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by X-FireChance
117 is faster than 111.
12.5 is quicker than 12.9.
Quick and fast are two different things.
That being said, I would think that as close as those numbers are, you would notice little, if any, difference in seat of the pants feeling at a track.
12.5 is quicker than 12.9.
Quick and fast are two different things.
That being said, I would think that as close as those numbers are, you would notice little, if any, difference in seat of the pants feeling at a track.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
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Originally Posted by jschindler
The difference between 111 and 117 is huge. You damn sure would feel that!
You'd feel it for sure. And going down the track it would look different from behind the wheel too. 6mph difference in trap speed represents a big difference in horsepower. I would also consider new tires to take advantage of that kind of power.
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From: Granada Hills CA
I rarely drive only a quarter mile.
I guess you could look at it this way:
It only took 12.5 sec to reach 111 mph for the first car in the 1/4 mile while it took 12.9sec for the second car to reach 117 in the same distance.
How much faster is the first car going in that same 12.9 sec. I bet a lot faster than 117mph.
I'll take the first.
Bye Bye.
It only took 12.5 sec to reach 111 mph for the first car in the 1/4 mile while it took 12.9sec for the second car to reach 117 in the same distance.
How much faster is the first car going in that same 12.9 sec. I bet a lot faster than 117mph.
I'll take the first.
Bye Bye.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,284
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From: Southwest Florida
Originally Posted by bangbgC6
I guess you could look at it this way:
It only took 12.5 sec to reach 111 mph for the first car in the 1/4 mile while it took 12.9sec for the second car to reach 117 in the same distance.
How much faster is the first car going in that same 12.9 sec. I bet a lot faster than 117mph.
I'll take the first.
Bye Bye.
It only took 12.5 sec to reach 111 mph for the first car in the 1/4 mile while it took 12.9sec for the second car to reach 117 in the same distance.
How much faster is the first car going in that same 12.9 sec. I bet a lot faster than 117mph.
I'll take the first.
Bye Bye.
This one is pretty simple:
12.5 @ 111: car that is set up well and getting good traction
12.9 @ 117: car with more power that needs tires.
Mike
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From: CA
Yes, the higher mph car is the one which "pulls"
harder. 117mph in the 1/4 means the car is pulling
significantly harder than the 111mph car.
Think of it this way: low ets are a function of how hard
the car launches. Trap speeds are the best indicator of
the power to weight ratio of the car.
Imagine sitting at a christmas tree. The light goes green.
You sit there for 2 seconds then launch. That same 12.9
car will now be running a 14.9 et but will still hit 117mph.
This is analogous to what happens when your wheels spin
at the launch. You are essentially "wasting" time at the
start but it won't significantly affect your trap speed.
Or look at it another way: if you spin your tire like crazy
for the first 30 feet then hook up, you are basically only
accelerating at max potential for 1320-30 feet. You lose
30 feet of track. How will that affect the trap speed? Well,
how much mph gain do you expect over the final 30 feet
at the end of the 1/4 mile? Remember you're travelling
over 115 mph. Even if you weren't accelerating any more,
you'd cover than space in 0.17 seconds. You aren't going
to add to your trap speed in 0.17 seconds when you're
already doing 115mph.
I'd take the 117mph car. It will pull much harder.
Pat
harder. 117mph in the 1/4 means the car is pulling
significantly harder than the 111mph car.
Think of it this way: low ets are a function of how hard
the car launches. Trap speeds are the best indicator of
the power to weight ratio of the car.
Imagine sitting at a christmas tree. The light goes green.
You sit there for 2 seconds then launch. That same 12.9
car will now be running a 14.9 et but will still hit 117mph.
This is analogous to what happens when your wheels spin
at the launch. You are essentially "wasting" time at the
start but it won't significantly affect your trap speed.
Or look at it another way: if you spin your tire like crazy
for the first 30 feet then hook up, you are basically only
accelerating at max potential for 1320-30 feet. You lose
30 feet of track. How will that affect the trap speed? Well,
how much mph gain do you expect over the final 30 feet
at the end of the 1/4 mile? Remember you're travelling
over 115 mph. Even if you weren't accelerating any more,
you'd cover than space in 0.17 seconds. You aren't going
to add to your trap speed in 0.17 seconds when you're
already doing 115mph.
I'd take the 117mph car. It will pull much harder.
Pat
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From: Exit 89 GSP,Lakewood,NJ The Land Of Mojo
Cental/South NJ Events Coordinator
CI 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12 Vet
CI-II Burnout & Drag Champ
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07
Take into consideration the 60'. My '95 six speed is faster, but my '93 auto is quicker. The difference? How about 3 tenths in the 60'. We're talking nearly yanking the front wheels off the ground.
Your et's can vary, this past weekend, I had 5 runs, 4 were 12.50 one was 12.60, the MPH were all 107.75 with one run at 108.
Your et's can vary, this past weekend, I had 5 runs, 4 were 12.50 one was 12.60, the MPH were all 107.75 with one run at 108.
Team Owner
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From: Short Hills, NJ
Originally Posted by catpat8000
Yes, the higher mph car is the one which "pulls"
harder. 117mph in the 1/4 means the car is pulling
significantly harder than the 111mph car.
harder. 117mph in the 1/4 means the car is pulling
significantly harder than the 111mph car.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,284
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From: Southwest Florida
Originally Posted by LS1LT1
Well apparently NOT, up to 111mph at least.
Another way to look at it... if you do a rolling start where both cars are already going 25 MPH (or more), the 117 MPH car wins every time.
Mike
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From: Short Hills, NJ
Originally Posted by mikeyc6
The difference is that the 111 MPH car "slammed" hard off the line for the first few yards (maybe 10 yards). For the rest of the ride (over 4 football fields), the 117 MPH car pulled harder. So which will you notice more? Depends on what you are looking for. The 111 MPH car pulled harder for the first 1.5 seconds of the ride while the 117 MPH car pulled harder for the last 11 seconds. Would you prefer the initial 1.5 second jolt, or the sustained 11 seconds after that where the 117 MPH car is accelerating faster?
Another way to look at it... if you do a rolling start where both cars are already going 25 MPH (or more), the 117 MPH car wins every time.
Another way to look at it... if you do a rolling start where both cars are already going 25 MPH (or more), the 117 MPH car wins every time.
But regardless of all that, in the end, who won the drag race?
........
...
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From: Virginia
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII Veteran
St. Jude's Donor '06
The car with the higher trap speed is superior.
Not only will it kick the crap out of the other car from a roll, but its E/T can be improved simply with better shifting and/or tires.
Not only will it kick the crap out of the other car from a roll, but its E/T can be improved simply with better shifting and/or tires.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Granada Hills CA
??
Originally Posted by mikeyc6
You think the first car is going to go from 111 MPH to [a lot faster than] 117 MPH in 0.4 seconds? That's one helluva car! Pulling .64 G's of acceleration at 110 MPH. Now THAT'S a car!
This one is pretty simple:
12.5 @ 111: car that is set up well and getting good traction
12.9 @ 117: car with more power that needs tires.
Mike
This one is pretty simple:
12.5 @ 111: car that is set up well and getting good traction
12.9 @ 117: car with more power that needs tires.
Mike
In the additional .4-.5 sec the car continued accelerating to 115-116 mph. Top speed timed run 12.9 sec 115-116 mph.
So is the difference appears to be 1 mph at the same et 12.9 sec.
The distance covered would be 1,406ft for the first car or 85 feet further in the same elapsed time.
Last edited by bangbgC6; Nov 19, 2004 at 01:48 PM.
