[Z06] Heads guides wore out again...
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Heads guides wore out again...
Just checked my heads guides are toast, ok not toast but have some wear..... lucky I decided to check them after 20k miles theses dis not have bronze guides so that theory is true no pm guides. Oil analysis sent off yesterday car is not drag raced so Gm guides affect only what years again smh ill keep everone updated on my new set up....luckily I have a extra set of heads ready and cam.....
Last edited by RamAir972003; 09-03-2016 at 02:08 PM.
Popular Reply
09-02-2016, 12:19 PM
Intermediate
Guides not wore out.
Just checked my heads guides are toast lucky I decided to check them after 20k miles theses dis not have bronze guides so that theory is true no pm guides. Oil analysis sent off yesterday car is not drag raced so Gm guides affect only what years again smh ill keep everone updated on my new set up....luckily I have a extra set of heads ready and cam.....
I received the heads in question yesterday, tore them down and measured the guides. When they where brought in years ago they where almost new. They had .0015 clearance with about .0005 taper. They now have .0016-.0018 with .0015 taper on the worst guide and the rest have about .001. Yes, they are wore but they are not totally "wear out". I will note that the end exhaust ports are always the worst because of lack of water circulation in that part of the head. #2 #8 exhaust ports always wear more than the rest.
These are stock guides and at the time of rebuild many years ago I did not replace the guides because the guide issue was not a proven fact at that that time and the guides where great. These heads came from 21st century and they did a great job on them! I just freshened them up and sent them down the road. Now days when it come to guide wear on the ls7, we know better and we understand that the exhaust guides can have accelerated wear especially in conjunction with high lift cams. I now replace ALL guides on LS7 heads. I use the CHE high Nickle bronze which is more than sufficient for street use. All bronze guides are not the same!!!!!!! There are over 70 different formulations of bronze guide material! If you buy the cheapest Chinese Bronze ****, its going to wear FASTER than a stock guide! I can buy bronze guides for 1.02 each or pay for the ones that will hold up and pay 5.50 to as much as 8.00 each. If its cheap, its cheap for a reason! When someone complains about how fast there bronze guides wore out, ask them if they even know what type or manufacture they used because if you use CHE and give them adequate oil flow, you wont see that ****. I dont see my heads coming back with guide wear using CHE guides as should be the case!
On another note:
How many of you guys take a razor and slice the seal on the exhaust guides? If you do this they will get the oil they need but WILL NOT contaminate the cylinder. It will also cut your guide wear in HALF no matter what material you use. I also take off the springs at the top of the seal because its a joke to run that tight a seal on a "High Performance" engine. The ONLY reason the factory cut the oil flow to the guide down to a minimum is to pass EPA standards. If the guide is wearing thats a LACK OF LUBRICATION! Get some oil to it and it will stop. We NEVER run seals on high end race engines. The more friction you have, the more oil you need. It could not be any more simple.
#2
Team Owner
What are the measurements, and what method was used to measure the guide wear?
Who's PM guides?
Who did the head rebuild?
What Int/Exh Valves?
What cam profile/lift?
What rockers/trunions?
What springs?
Who's PM guides?
Who did the head rebuild?
What Int/Exh Valves?
What cam profile/lift?
What rockers/trunions?
What springs?
Last edited by MTPZ06; 08-31-2016 at 09:47 PM.
#3
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Well there was no need to measure them they were moving by hand and you could hear it knock on cold start up,car ran good but I'm not taking the chance these new heads have bronze guides......im just really disappointed, well at least I didn't drop a valve...you can look on my post back in 12 when I did this set up 20k later **** ��
Trunion upgrade on stock rockers pac springs on gt-20 cam on 112 lsa....smh
Heads were done by hpe chuck aders, then took them to Darin Morgan to get cleaned up....and reassembled....It was off a turbo car Dallas Performance....I told Taylor after I realized the guides weren't bronze he said ill be fine look at me now...
Trunion upgrade on stock rockers pac springs on gt-20 cam on 112 lsa....smh
Heads were done by hpe chuck aders, then took them to Darin Morgan to get cleaned up....and reassembled....It was off a turbo car Dallas Performance....I told Taylor after I realized the guides weren't bronze he said ill be fine look at me now...
Last edited by RamAir972003; 08-31-2016 at 10:40 PM.
#4
Team Owner
So you put new heads on with stock guides?
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735hpZ06 (05-23-2017)
#5
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Unfortunately back then everyone was saying its the valves not the guides even katech was using pm guides just upset smh...when I spoke to katech because they tested it back then even Jason said I would be fine even lingenfilter, hell I'm not blaming anyone I just hope bronze guides now are the fix...what do you think.....
Last edited by RamAir972003; 08-31-2016 at 11:41 PM.
#6
Safety Car
#7
#9
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
#10
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I mean what can I do call Taylor up and tell him you were wrong see tho was back in 2012 but hell I gave it a shot and now this is where I'm at what would you guys do start blaming who nobody knows the f problem GM I HOPE YOUR READING THIS TADGE THE PROBLEM IS REAL AND FOR ALL YEARS PERIOD LIKE I SAID YEARS AGO READ ALL MY POSTS SMH YES FRUSTRATED BUT IT HELPS AL OF US TO REALIZE THIS IS NOT THE VALVES
Last edited by RamAir972003; 08-31-2016 at 11:57 PM.
#11
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Might as well put new cam in that's what everyone is telling me since I already have it ready...but we shouldn't have to be doing this smh....i guess that's what I get for helping people lol.
#12
Team Owner
Not all "Bronze" guides are alike. Bronze Manganese guides tested better than most expected. (See AHP's hardness test below for multiple guide materials) I think CHE sells those. Either way, PM is good material...just not the stock PM material blend. Send your heads off to Kohle for his PM material...or even better, his MoldStar90 material. That's what I run. Update the guides and those solid stem exhaust valves to the ferrea f2042p hollow stems and put it behind you.
Got your PM...I'll lob you a call when time permits.
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NOSZ06 (03-14-2017)
#13
Safety Car
#14
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Darin morgan already said that che makes a bad *** bronze guide like 2 a year that's what I'm running that guide in these new ones....now lets everyone everybody reading this I drive another 15 20k miles on the bronze guides and these new heads and guides are shot again whats next tell me what the problem is. Has anybody checked there heads after driving it with bronze guides and new valves...tell me what is the cause after that happens im amazed on how a machine of this caliber has a f issue with heads seriously I know I preach that check ur guides and so on but Jesus help us why this car why why why lol I'm lucky I'm a car semi expert and caught thus by just doing an oil change....
Last edited by RamAir972003; 09-01-2016 at 12:12 AM.
#15
By HPE you.mean Hennessey? Are you 100% sure there was ever any work even done and some of your valves are not on stock guides right now?
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Z2Z (09-01-2016)
#17
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Houston performance engineering back then. Then I know heads were freshened up by Dallas performance..then taken to Darin Morgan milled and cleaned up...guides are pm guides idk if there stock pm I know back then you could still get them. Other than that valves were not hollow and changed to SS. Other than that that's all of what I can remember..but good thing is now we all know if other heads are done with any pm guides its worthless, also if other heads with bronze guides are wearing out then it explains that the geometry for the ls7 head is wrong and is a defect no matter what you put in it...first people were saying its not the guides its the hollow valves well that's been proven wrong now.....
Last edited by RamAir972003; 09-01-2016 at 06:46 AM.
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TRSCobra (09-05-2016)
#20
Houston performance engineering back then. Then I know heads were freshened up by Dallas performance..then taken to Darin Morgan milled and cleaned up...guides are pm guides idk if there stock pm I know back then you could still get them. Other than that valves were not hollow and changed to SS. Other than that that's all of what I can remember..but good thing is now we all know if other heads are done with any pm guides its worthless, also if other heads with bronze guides are wearing out then it explains that the geometry for the ls7 head is wrong and is a defect no matter what you put in it...first people were saying its not the guides its the hollow valves well that's been proven wrong now.....
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exracer28 (09-01-2016)