C7 announcement
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,574
Likes: 615
From: Springfield TN
DCT is the future. All top end road racing cars are either DCT or sequential shift manuals. I test drove a 2010 Cayman S with its DCT and the shifts were incredible-very fast, very smooth and very fun. Plus, it did a good job of being an automatic.
I can see the Corvette brain trust offering for a while a DCT instead of the auto plus a close ratio 6 speed with a 7th gear steep overdrive, but the DCT will eventually outsell the manual so much that the manual will go away. If you haven't driven a good quality DCT car, don't keep spouting the 6 speed mantra. F1 cars are DCT for a reason....
As far as cost, the Corvette is an expensive car. It should compete with 911s. It shouldn't be a gussied up Camaro. Indeed, Corvette should be its own brand with a sports sedan, a front mid V8 car and a mid V6 turbo car. And it should be sold and serviced at dealers who specialize in the kind of service one gets at a Porsche or Mercedes dealer. And if that means the lower end of the Corvette market buys a Camaro, so be it.
Put that DCT in the Vette and let's get on with it!
I can see the Corvette brain trust offering for a while a DCT instead of the auto plus a close ratio 6 speed with a 7th gear steep overdrive, but the DCT will eventually outsell the manual so much that the manual will go away. If you haven't driven a good quality DCT car, don't keep spouting the 6 speed mantra. F1 cars are DCT for a reason....
As far as cost, the Corvette is an expensive car. It should compete with 911s. It shouldn't be a gussied up Camaro. Indeed, Corvette should be its own brand with a sports sedan, a front mid V8 car and a mid V6 turbo car. And it should be sold and serviced at dealers who specialize in the kind of service one gets at a Porsche or Mercedes dealer. And if that means the lower end of the Corvette market buys a Camaro, so be it.
Put that DCT in the Vette and let's get on with it!
Last edited by quick04Z06; May 23, 2011 at 08:54 PM.
Drifting
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 2
From: San Clemente CA
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,063
Likes: 82
From: Tumwater, WA
Wrong! GM should not be planning to keep up with the competitiion, it should be AHEAD of the curve and leading the way! Would love to see some new technology that works, and makes the competition flinch. That's what America used to be all about, and one of the things that kept GM on top for so long.
DSG/DCT and AWD/Quattro while it may not show up in the vette, is making some very good showings. Like in Porsche and Audi, the difference between the new TTRS with and without the dsg in the 0 to 60 is about .7. The DSG TTRS will do it in about 3.6 while its manual in about 4.3, thats a pretty significant difference. While I doubt we will see the AWD in the vette any time soon, the DSG/DCT might make a showing soon.
Drifting
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 199
From: Oakhurst Ca
One of the reasons I sold my 6 speed automatic Corvette is because it shifted too much, even a small incline and it would shift down then up then down. My C5 took the same grade at the same speed and didn't have to shift out of high gear. The funny thing is my GMC Sierra truck has a 6 speed allison transmission and weighs 8000 lbs and doesn't have to shift down going up the same incline. I guess if they can give the transmission enough brains it will be OK, my truck knows it's going up a hill and delays the shift until it can stay in the gear its shifting to (how hard is it to know your car is going up and incline, in fact the exact incline grade)
Pro
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 708
Likes: 1
From: Wyoming DE
One of the reasons I sold my 6 speed automatic Corvette is because it shifted too much, even a small incline and it would shift down then up then down. My C5 took the same grade at the same speed and didn't have to shift out of high gear. The funny thing is my GMC Sierra truck has a 6 speed allison transmission and weighs 8000 lbs and doesn't have to shift down going up the same incline. I guess if they can give the transmission enough brains it will be OK, my truck knows it's going up a hill and delays the shift until it can stay in the gear its shifting to (how hard is it to know your car is going up and incline, in fact the exact incline grade)
Drifting
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 199
From: Oakhurst Ca
Maybe the gear ratio is pertinent but I also know that going up that incline the trucks fine at 1200 RPM loaded with 500 pound motorcycle going about 55-60 MPH in top gear and the Corvettes not OK with just me in it. So I don't think the 4:10s are helping much.
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Drifting
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 3
From: Coatesville PA
Its very simple. The vette tranny is probably programed to be responsive yet fuel efficient. So it senses you need/want power(not that it has to downshift at all but it knows you as a corvette owner want to know the power is always on tap) and downshifts. Then probably upshifts as soon as it can tell you've crested the hill to save fuel. Your truck transmission doesnt shift because whats the point? You have almost the exact same amount of torque from 1200-2800rpms in that diesel probably. So downshifting for it doesnt accomplish much. Where as the torque at 1300rpms and 3800 rpms in the vette is vastly different so it downshifts to access that extra torque. For cryin out loud a vette highway cruises at idle almost, of course it needs to downshift sometimes.
Also if thats a large part of why you sold your vette, please dont buy another. Or just get a stick shift.
Also if thats a large part of why you sold your vette, please dont buy another. Or just get a stick shift.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,063
Likes: 82
From: Tumwater, WA
I go over a moutain here in El Paso all the time and my tranny doesnt down and up shift like crazy. Im always in the "S" mode so I dont kow if that has anything to do with it, and now I have the tune for the ECU and tranny so its all power now.
Last edited by S'vette; May 28, 2011 at 11:52 AM.
Drifting
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 199
From: Oakhurst Ca
It's not about having power on tap because the throttle is at a constant setting and it's not about cresting any hills and the grade is almost the same the complete hill. It may be trying to save gas but then don't down shift if you have enough power to continue and if you don't then down shift put then don't up shift if the speed hasn't changed. The reason you probably don't experience it on that hill in Texas is because you're probably going faster.
Sorry but the 6 speed auto transmission just sucks, and I love Corvettes (I still have a C5) and will probably soon buy a C6 (just a Z06).
Sorry but the 6 speed auto transmission just sucks, and I love Corvettes (I still have a C5) and will probably soon buy a C6 (just a Z06).
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,063
Likes: 82
From: Tumwater, WA
It's not about having power on tap because the throttle is at a constant setting and it's not about cresting any hills and the grade is almost the same the complete hill. It may be trying to save gas but then don't down shift if you have enough power to continue and if you don't then down shift put then don't up shift if the speed hasn't changed. The reason you probably don't experience it on that hill in Texas is because you're probably going faster.
Sorry but the 6 speed auto transmission just sucks, and I love Corvettes (I still have a C5) and will probably soon buy a C6 (just a Z06).
Sorry but the 6 speed auto transmission just sucks, and I love Corvettes (I still have a C5) and will probably soon buy a C6 (just a Z06).
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 23
From: Santa Barbara CA
It's not about having power on tap because the throttle is at a constant setting and it's not about cresting any hills and the grade is almost the same the complete hill. It may be trying to save gas but then don't down shift if you have enough power to continue and if you don't then down shift put then don't up shift if the speed hasn't changed. The reason you probably don't experience it on that hill in Texas is because you're probably going faster.
Sorry but the 6 speed auto transmission just sucks, and I love Corvettes (I still have a C5) and will probably soon buy a C6 (just a Z06).
Sorry but the 6 speed auto transmission just sucks, and I love Corvettes (I still have a C5) and will probably soon buy a C6 (just a Z06).
I've owned a bunch of modern automatic performance cars (with 5 and 6 speed auto), and none of them did what I would want up a long grade. That is where you use the sport/manual mode and put it in the gear you want. Chances are, the grade/speed/load on that particular hill confuses the TCM. Computers DO get confused sometimes.
Also, the shifting strategy in a large truck is going to be a lot different than a sports car. A truck is going to be programmed to be very smooth and try not to upset the vehicle's balance while towing, etc.
BTW, I have a manual C6. Would have probably bought a DCT if it was available, though. I love the DCT that comes in the new M3s.
Last edited by Streetk14; May 28, 2011 at 12:00 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,063
Likes: 82
From: Tumwater, WA
I've owned a bunch of modern automatic performance cars (with 5 and 6 speed auto), and none of them did what I would want up a long grade. That is where you use the sport/manual mode and put it in the gear you want. Chances are, the grade/speed/load on that particular hill confuses the TCM. Computers DO get confused sometimes.
Also, the shifting strategy in a large truck is going to be a lot different than a sports car. A truck is going to be programmed to be very smooth and try not to upset the vehicle's balance while towing, etc.
BTW, I have a manual C6
Also, the shifting strategy in a large truck is going to be a lot different than a sports car. A truck is going to be programmed to be very smooth and try not to upset the vehicle's balance while towing, etc.
BTW, I have a manual C6
Racer
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
"Crappy old 6-speed"?
...I don't understand why someone would give up the fun of rowing their own for pressing a little lever just because a magazine says "Hey, this is faster!"
The manumatic is why I didn't entertain the thought of a GT-R. It's boring. Everyone I know who has owned one has a similar story "It kicks *** from a dig, and I had a blast with it, but that gets old after a while, it's like a really-fast really rough-riding family car that handles well now. I want more driver-involvement. I'm bored."...
...I don't understand why someone would give up the fun of rowing their own for pressing a little lever just because a magazine says "Hey, this is faster!"
The manumatic is why I didn't entertain the thought of a GT-R. It's boring. Everyone I know who has owned one has a similar story "It kicks *** from a dig, and I had a blast with it, but that gets old after a while, it's like a really-fast really rough-riding family car that handles well now. I want more driver-involvement. I'm bored."...
Think about it. In a car with an automated manual with launch control what is the fun of racing somone from a stop light (legal disclaimer:professional driver on a closed circuit). This is the quintesential sports car challenge, providing you are not a track rat... In an automated manual with launch control you could race an 80 year old grandmother in a similar car and have exactly the same results. There is no driver skill involved. You are essentially a passenger. With a true manual every aspect of the contest requires driver skill. You must adjust the timing and modulation of two pedals, while keeping track of RPMs, wheel spin, shift points, and vehicle stability. The computer does everything for you in the automated manual.
There will be those who prefer the technology and good for them, it is probably the fastest way around a track and from point A to point B. I prefer a little more interaction with my vehicles. My six speed is sometimes inconvenient in traffic, but I enjoy every moment!
-AL
Last edited by HellBent; May 29, 2011 at 02:20 PM.
Drifting
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 199
From: Oakhurst Ca
I've owned a bunch of modern automatic performance cars (with 5 and 6 speed auto), and none of them did what I would want up a long grade. That is where you use the sport/manual mode and put it in the gear you want. Chances are, the grade/speed/load on that particular hill confuses the TCM. Computers DO get confused sometimes.
Also, the shifting strategy in a large truck is going to be a lot different than a sports car. A truck is going to be programmed to be very smooth and try not to upset the vehicle's balance while towing, etc.
BTW, I have a manual C6. Would have probably bought a DCT if it was available, though. I love the DCT that comes in the new M3s.
Also, the shifting strategy in a large truck is going to be a lot different than a sports car. A truck is going to be programmed to be very smooth and try not to upset the vehicle's balance while towing, etc.
BTW, I have a manual C6. Would have probably bought a DCT if it was available, though. I love the DCT that comes in the new M3s.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,330
Likes: 903
From: Kentucky
I drove an automatic C6 a few weeks ago and loved it. It always seemed to know just the right gear to be in. But, I only drove it once. And Lord knows it shifts better than the ancient 4 speed auto in my 2009 Silverado. Maybe if I had the opportunity to drive it on a more regular basis I would see more flaws.
I just brought it up because somebody thought the C7 might have an 8 speed auto.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,063
Likes: 82
From: Tumwater, WA
Although the popularity of automated manuals and various types of paddle-shifted automatics will continually grow, I think there will always be a place for true manuals. The simple reason is driver involvement and enjoyment. Connection with your machine!
Think about it. In a car with an automated manual with launch control what is the fun of racing somone from a stop light (legal disclaimer:professional driver on a closed circuit). This is the quintesential sports car challenge, providing you are not a track rat... In an automated manual with launch control you could race an 80 year old grandmother in a similar car and have exactly the same results. There is no driver skill involved. You are essentially a passenger. With a true manual every aspect of the contest requires driver skill. You must adjust the timing and modulation of two pedals, while keeping track of RPMs, wheel spin, shift points, and vehicle stability. The computer does everything for you in the automated manual.
There will be those who prefer the technology and good for them, it is probably the fastest way around a track and from point A to point B. I prefer a little more interaction with my vehicles. My six speed is sometimes inconvenient in traffic, but I enjoy every moment!
-AL
Think about it. In a car with an automated manual with launch control what is the fun of racing somone from a stop light (legal disclaimer:professional driver on a closed circuit). This is the quintesential sports car challenge, providing you are not a track rat... In an automated manual with launch control you could race an 80 year old grandmother in a similar car and have exactly the same results. There is no driver skill involved. You are essentially a passenger. With a true manual every aspect of the contest requires driver skill. You must adjust the timing and modulation of two pedals, while keeping track of RPMs, wheel spin, shift points, and vehicle stability. The computer does everything for you in the automated manual.
There will be those who prefer the technology and good for them, it is probably the fastest way around a track and from point A to point B. I prefer a little more interaction with my vehicles. My six speed is sometimes inconvenient in traffic, but I enjoy every moment!
-AL
And try a 600+ whp car with launch control and DCT and see if you still dont need to know when to give and take. Slammin the pedal to the metal wont work.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 3
From: Coatesville PA
Thats kinda like saying "why have a better suspension?" Why not just learn to drive the car on a "Fred Flintsone" suspension and really feel the car? Technology comes and every time there is something significant there are people saying no, but then the next generation thinks its as it should be.
And try a 600+ whp car with launch control and DCT and see if you still dont need to know when to give and take. Slammin the pedal to the metal wont work.
And try a 600+ whp car with launch control and DCT and see if you still dont need to know when to give and take. Slammin the pedal to the metal wont work.
And he's completely right in what he's saying. Maybe you dont like manuals and so what. Ferrari and Lambo are going all auto's because lets be real about their buyer base. (mostly)Guys taking their trophy wives to dinners/events that want attention, not the full 8000+rpm experience. A lot of corvette drivers may be gettin that way, but just check out c4/c5/c6 general forums and you'll find plenty still want the full driving experience, not to be the absolute fastest on the road. DCT should be on the top level next vette, as it is a clear performance edge. But Ferrari/Lambo cut manuals because their buyer base didnt want them for the most part. Cant say the same for corvettes. Thats what it really comes down to, selling a product, dont sell what the buyer wants he wont buy it.