During the final years of the C5 all I heard was talk from GM about how they are on top of the interior complaints and they will be fixed with the C6 .... it's happening again. I'm not really that concerned with the inside though as I can live with what the C6 offers.

My real concern is price! GM made a big deal about holding the 05 C6 startling price close to what the C5 cost during it's final year. This time they can start that price at base levels, or Grand Sport levels. Hopefully they stay somewhere int he middle. I'd hate to see the Corvette jump into 65-70K starting prices before prepackaged options.

I loved the C5 styling the most but I also like the GS/Z06 vettes. Was not a fan of the base C6 upon release. I wouldn't mind if they went in another direction entirely though. I want to see something that blows me away again!

 

Well, I posted that just to show the difference in options between the cars. 4LT is an upgrade, but it's not what the people in GM's new target expect. I think it's safe to say most Cayman's aren't spec'ed up to 2x the base MSRP. The average 911 Carrera buyer, for example, adds on $8k worth of options. Is that a lot compared to, say, what GS owners step up to when passing over a base C6? From discussions on the other forums here, I got the feeling a lot of those GS owners were spec'ing their cars up to Z06 price points. The Porsche point being, the options are there for people to customize to suit their tastes and it can be done profitably even if the vast majority do not pick every conceivable option.

At this point we should ask, what have Porsche and Ferrari done to earn that cachet? What is the image of Chevy, and have they done things to earn that image? Ie., cutting corners for the sake of performance/$ with not much regard to the rest of the package. It seems GM is admitting as much from the words of their execs in various interviews.
Another question we should ponder is: What is GM going to do about it? And when? Die hard Porsche and Ferrari fans aren't born. They become conditioned that way because they see no true competitor exists as an alternative from GM. Cadillac XLR? Nope. The key may not be in converting the die-hards, but to sway the minds of those new to cars, before they can be conditioned to think no alternative exists. The way to do this IMO is to produce a better product, with no excuses. And it has to start now. 50 years from now, it's not going to matter that Corvettes fell behind competitors in overall quality in the past 20-30 years.

 

if there are anyone that still think of compare corvette with any european sport cars, i think he still dreaming, cause corvette is crap compare of this cars unless stupid power "for thoes who mad on drag racing" not enjoyed on normal street use.

 

Porsche and Ferrari have done NOTHING to earn that image, other than be out of reach of the majority of the population. People want what they can't have exactly because they can't have it...if they could, and did get it, they'd want it less. Imagine of the Pontiac Solstice had, say...100 more hp, and a really nice interior. What do you think the selling point would be? Let's say, 45-50 grand, TOPS. Now let's add a little bit of body kit to it, from the factory...and in this hypothetical, let's pretend that this car does not have any Sky clones running around...and that this would be the first year running this car. We could do two things...sell it at 45-50 grand, as an affordable super roadster, in the same way we sell the vette....OR...let's do a small marketing campaign and then sell this car at 130,000+, and sell it as competition for TVRs and AMG roadsters.

Same car.

Which version is going to make it onto wall calenders, and be lusted after more? Remember, we have done nothing different other than a huge price change.

 

Uh, so a Porsche or Ferrari is the same as a Corvette but just higher priced?
I think not.

 

True. They aren't nearly as reliable.

 

It seem to me that we shouls start seeing some spy pictures by now.

 

I think you should perhaps look at Porsche's successes in Le Mans competition (I'm talking overall wins, not just class wins), rallying, and trickle-down applications of technologies like carbon ceramic brakes and dual-clutch transmissions. Ferrari have built a reputation on cutting-edge technology as well: alloy spaceframe in a sportscar sold in high volumes starting with the 360, F1 semi-auto gearshift, electronically controlled mechanical LSD tied in with a vehicle's stability control system, and now the FF with a very different AWD system from some other cars. They are also the most successful manufacturer in Formula One, with 16 titles to their name. Not to mention a heritage rich in road racing (Targa Florio, Mille Miglia, etc).
Pagani are similarly priced outside of the reach of the majority of the population, yet they could not command the kinds of sales volume that Ferrari and Porsche (with its CGT) enjoy. Why's that? Same thing with Koenigsegg. It's not the price, in and of itself, that makes the car desirable. Ferrari and Porsche have earned their cachet. Pagani/K'Segg have not. GM have earned its reputation as offering outstanding performance/price, but with little regard to the rest of the package, cutting corners in matters of tacticle quality, and as such is not considered a true competitor to those other marques. If it continues down that path, it will never have the cachet. It will do nothing more than earn its reputation as a cost-cutting product.

As for your Solstice example, people would probably not pay that price because they know that the underlying foundation isn't great. I doubt people would lust after a $130k gussied up car from a division of GM that was killed off.
But then you look at the Ford GT, a car with a proletarian, blue-collar badge. Ford were able to sell 4000+ of those things at $140k+, because of the style and because it was a very special car (and yes, it was well-developed as an overall package too). This tells us that buyers are willing to look beyond the badge, so long as the product is sound.

TVR? GM would do better than to target that car. TVR is an example that performance/£ is worthless, unless you can match it to a great overall package (fit & finish, quality control, reliability, etc.).

 

I totally agree with the racing heritage being paramount, but the point I am making is not aimed towards people that can and WILL purchase a Ferrari new, because the majority of those people don't care about performance, or racing history. Majority of those people are buying a status symbol. And there is nothing GM can do to change that, for the very reason I brought up about exclusivity.

 

If GM continue to produce only cars that cut corners in areas that matter in this demographic, then you're right. There is nothing they will do to change that. They will have earned their stigma as a performance/$ marque that falls short in tactile quality. If, during the next 30 years, GM meet their perceived competitors head-on in all areas, then there's no reason why a 2050 Corvette or Cadillac can't be seen as a status symbol too. With restructuring of GM (and a massive infusion of capital made possible by the bailout), the time to capitalize on such an opportunity is now.
If you read some of the threads by John @ Caravaggio, and watch the documentaries about the craftsmanship that goes into making a Ferrari a Ferrari, then you'll see there really is a fundamental difference in how these cars are made. And you'll see why Ferrari have earned their status as a premium sportscar manufacturer. It's not marketing, unless you can back it up. And so far, Ferrari have been able to back it up.

Funny thing about exclusivity is that Ferrari claimed back in '93 that they would never exceed 3500 units. The point probably made to ensure strong residuals and a certain mystique of rarity around the marque. Now, they are poised to sell nearly 2x's that amount by the end of this year.

 

Further, this is exactly what GM has said they want to do - compete in the global market with a more refined product. All that's needed is follow through. Now is the time to get started.

 

Right you are.

Ferrari's and Porsche's attention to detail with regard to ensuring almost every aspect of the car rises to a high standard in terms of quality, functionality, tactile feel, looks, and feedback is apparent everywhere you look on their cars. For these manufacturers it's not enough to get some of these parts right; they want all of the parts to rise to their expectations when not only examined individually, but also when examined as a whole....read "balance".

Ferrari 458...

 

Everyone keeps mentioning Ferrari, Ferrari, Ferrari. You have to keep something in mind though, Ferrari's sell for 200G. Ferrari can afford to add exotic components and cover everything in leather. The people who are buying these cars aren't going to care it it costs 200G or 220G.

It's not fair in the least to compare a mass producded car that has to stay in a certain price range, to one that is hand made and can be priced at what it needs to be priced at.

Another thing too, it may not be a status symbol like a Ferrari, but the Corvette is a status symbol in it's own right, if things like that matter to you. There are one hell of a lot of people out there that cannot afford a new Corvette.

 

And the number of people that can't afford a new vette is going to climb much, MUCH higher if GM does as you guys wish, and starts building Ferraris themselves. There is a reason the vette is what it is. Just saying.

 

The Ferrari is not their target.

The 911 is. Maybe the R8 on the top end. Maybe the Boxster on the low end.

Looked on Corvette website. The 3 default comparison cars for the base coupe are 911, Cayman, and BMW Z4. GM actually changes the default comparison cars for the different Corvete models.

 

Oh, and as for status symbols, I can think of two off the top of my head, lol.

Corvette = small *****
Porsche = mid life crisis
GTR = ricer
Ferrari = trust fundies

 

I'm not saying GM needs to build Ferraris. Merely replying to assertions made that Ferrari and Porsche have done nothing to earn their status. If there is a reason the Vette is what it is, then there is also a reason why a Ferrari costs what it does.
For the record, I doubt it would cost very much for a Corvette to achieve even BMW or Audi levels of interior quality; forget about Ferrari, it doesn't have be to that extreme.

As far as mass production goes, Porsche sports cars are more mass produced than the Corvette, with around 30k in sales last year.

 

Didn't you just say earlier that the price was the only difference anyway? If so, GM would be nuts not to raise Corvette prices with no other changes just to crank up sales to all those people currently buying Ferraris and Porsches for their unearned cachet.

Oh wait, there is a difference. Corvettes are more reliable...

The Corvette may become more expensive if it is to be competitive with Porches and Audis and BMWs but there's a lot of room for improvement without a lot of extra cost. If the Germans can build BMWs, Porsches, Audis and Mercedes in Germany at the prices they're charging then GM should be able to do a lot better without raising Corvette prices at all. A LOT better.

 

If GM can improve the car without increasing the cost beyond inflation, I'm all for it. But I somehow doubt this. Finer materials cost money. Maybe they can improve the interior by better design, I don't know. I typically don't pay much attention to the interiors of sports cars...but I can certainly understand the concern. You pay a certain amount of money, you have a certain expectation. As for GM making more money by trying to make the corvette more exclusive, that won't work in the case of the vette, because it goes against the very nature of what the car is. It's the blue collar's rocket with wheels. It's a car that just about every hard working american can aspire to own one day, if they want it bad enough. You don't need to be a doctor, lawyer, manager, etc, to have the means to purchase this car, unlike ALL of the other cars in it's same class.

I also understand the comparison with Porsche, since in Germany, Porsche occupies the same basic territory...the high end sports car every hard working German can aspire to own one day, because they are an amazing deal. Over there, anyway. Here, they go beyond a typical blue collar's salary.

Look, the only point I'm trying to make is that you can't compare the vette to ferrari, because the vette is a car, ferrari is a brand. People would continue to buy ferraris even if they were crap, even if they were slow, even if the vette was made out of the rarest, most precious materials in the world, and made 5 minutes lap times at the 'Ring, because they want to own a ferrari. They want to be known as the guy who drives the ferrari. Same with Lambo. Aston Martin. These are all brands of exclusivity that people want. Most of them could care less about the car itself, with some exceptions of course. The corvette is never going to compete with those cars over seas, unless GM ships something over there that is not for sale and easily attainable here. It's going to have to be much more than what we already have with a much improved interior. It's going to have to be an exotic vette. A product totally different than what we currently have, maybe even a different name, because Corvette is PROUDLY known as the high end for the working class, even in Europe. Which is an option on the table. Lord knows Ford has been doing it for years, having some of their top sports car models sell in Europe, but not in the US, with the notable exception of the GT. But on US soils? An exotic vette is not going to sell as well as the vette we already have, know, and love.

I have a lot of German friends who think we in the US should view our vette Z06 with the same pride and adoration that they view the porsche 911. So you say, fine, then close the gap in quality between the two, which is fine. But it's not going to matter over there, just as it doesn't matter over here. The Z06 overseas costs about the same as a 911 turbo here costs. That's called an impasse.

 

Hmmm - anybody remember that Ferrari is now embracing a shock absorber system invented by GM - and paying GM for the rights to do so? As I recall, it was available as an option on even base model Corvettes long before it was on any Ferrari............ seems like maybe technological superiority works both ways!