Cad Ciel concept car announced today. This is the power plant

Engine type: 3.6L V-6 with twin turbochargers; DOHC, continuously variable valve timing and direct injection

Horsepower (hp / kW): 425 / 317

Torque (lb-ft / Nm): 430 / 583

Transmission: hybrid with low-speed all-electric drive

Wave of the future?

 

 

Let's say you put that out there as an option package.

And then offer the same car with an LS3.

If the TTV-6DI Corvette weighs under 3K and shaves 5/10th off the 0-60 and off the quarter and improved handling because of reduced front end weight ... And improves gas mileage 20%...

I think a great many V8 diehards would have to start thinking hard about how the future looks.


BUT from a marketing perspective, the ONLY way to convert the faithful is to have it as an option that out performs an LS3 - apples to apples.It has to be a net/net increase and improvement to overcome 60 years of small block greatness.

 

I know that an LS3 weights less than a Nissan 350Z VQ motor, especially if it had a TT so not so sure that just because it is a V-6, the motor above will be lighter.

 

GM's current naturally aspirated 3.6L LLT engine weighs between 23 lbs less than the LS3 to weighing a few pounds more, depending on the transmission, according to GM's published spec sheets. The turbos and associated hardware aren't going to make it any lighter. The proposed engine will almost certainly be heavier than the LS3 while making less power. GM has already been working with DI on the gen IV V8s, Gen V will have it, bringing better milage and power. If they can do a v6 car that is truly better, I welcome it, but most of the data doesn't seem to support that, IMO.

 

I'm always interested in efficiency. I'm not a fan of turbos but turbo technology has indeed been getting better. If they can prevent turbo lag, I'd like them a lot more. But turbos feel so unpredictable to me (granted I've only driven single turbo cars).

If GM produced a V6 making that much power and torque while maintaining a street/highway average of 30MPG, I'd be game. It seems there'd be no down side over an LS3. For making power, turbos have more potential than a N/A LS3. And if you can make power more efficiently, why not just do it?

 

GM has produced 100 million small block V8 powerplants..

The compact size..the light weight...the low cost..the high efficiency in both hp, tq and fuel efficiency ....make the V8 for the corvette a slam dunk..

Our cars right now...get 17 city...26hwy mileage..


what other 190 mph sports car that accelerates to 60 in 4 flat.... costs 50 grand and gets that kind of fuel mileage?

Answer ? NONE...The V8 doesn't need to be replaced by a twin turbo v6...

Trucks need to offer a V8 powerplant so corvette should be safe for at least a decade with V8 powerplants..since they share much of the development costs......

JMO

 

Two New V6 Engines Dominate Ford F-150 Sales•F-150 EcoBoost® V6 outsells all other competitive V6 pickups combined
•F-150 3.7-liter V6 outsells all other competitive V6 full-sized trucks
•F-150’s two new V6 engines account for nearly eight out of every 10 V6-powered full-sized trucks sold
•Next two Ford EcoBoost-powered vehicles, Edge and Explorer, on track for fall debut
DEARBORN, Mich., Aug. 9, 2011 – With its powerful and fuel-efficient 3.5-liter twin-turbocharged V6 engine, the 365-horsepower Ford F-150 EcoBoost® is outselling all other competitive six-cylinder trucks combined.

The new EcoBoost V6 is one of four new fuel-efficient engines Ford introduced in the F-150 for 2011. Another of those new engines – a 3.7-liter, 302-horsepower V6 – also outsells all other competitive V6 engines in full-sized trucks from Chevrolet, GMC, Dodge and Toyota.

According to sales data from J.D. Power and Associates, both new Ford truck V6 engines accounted for 79.5 percent market share of V6 full-sized trucks sold in July.

The Chevrolet Silverado takes second place with 12.1 percent market share, followed by the GMC Sierra with 4.0 percent, the Dodge Ram with 3.5 percent and the Toyota Tundra with 0.9 percent. Nissan does not offer a V6 in its Titan pickup.

In July, Ford sold 49,104 F-Series trucks. The EcoBoost V6 accounted for 40 percent of the mix, while the 3.7-liter took 16 percent of sales. This is the third consecutive month that V6s have outsold V8s in the F-Series. The last time the V6 outsold the V8 in America’s most popular truck was 1985. Year to date, the F-Series has sold 313,183 units, 8 percent higher than a year ago.

“Both of our new V6 powerplants are changing the way customers think about truck engines,” said Doug Scott, Ford’s truck group marketing manager. “The 3.7-liter has more horsepower than two of the three V8 engines we offered in last year’s F-150. The 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6 engine, at 365 horsepower and 420 lb.-ft. torque, is in a class of its own – no one has anything even remotely close to this engine, which can tow as much as 11,300 pounds and deliver 22 mpg.”
Fuel efficiency, along with best-in-class performance, is another reason the two new Ford F-150 engines are rewriting the book on V6 truck sales. The 3.7-liter F-150 carries an EPA rating of 17 mpg city and 23 mpg highway, while the F-150 EcoBoost is EPA certified at 16 mpg city and 22 mg highway, making it the most fuel-efficient truck with more than 350 horsepower on the market.

The hot-selling F-150 EcoBoost is now the highest volume vehicle in Ford’s growing global family of cars, trucks and SUVs available with the company’s patented fuel-saving technology.EcoBoost combines engine downsizing with turbocharging, direct injection and other technologies to deliver both performance and fuel efficiency gains as high as 20 percent over the larger engines they replace. Ford holds more than 125 patents on its EcoBoost technology and has launched a family of EcoBoost engines globally in sizes ranging from 1.6 liters to 3.5 liters.

The next two models scheduled to receive EcoBoost engines are two of the company’s top-selling utility vehicles, the Edge crossover and the Explorer SUV. Both will offer a 2.0-liter EcoBoost four-cylinder engine and deliver class-leading fuel efficiency of 30 mpg and 28 mpg highway, respectively. Edge and Explorer EcoBoost go on sale this fall.

Overseas, Ford EcoBoost engines are also a hit, with the 1.6-liter EcoBoost four-cylinder optional in the European C-MAX multi-activity vehicle virtually sold out. Sales volume is nearly 50 percent higher than projections.

More food for thought.

 

I know quite a bit about the ford ecoboost scenerio, started to post some in a previous post... and then deleted it...because the corvette isn't a truck..

General Motors V8's either with forced induction or not..are better than the V6's...

Good for ford with their f150. Glad americans are buying american branded vehicles even if they aren't chevy's!

 

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2011/08...nvertible.html

Not too sure about the front quarter view, but from the rear quarter it looks pretty sensational. Definitely the kind of car that Cadillac should be making IMO.





I like how in this age of political correctness, this car comes with a built-in humidor.


Some specs via Motor Trend:

SPECIFICATIONS

Vehicle: Cadillac Ciel concept

Body style / Driveline:

four-door, four-passenger convertible with longitudinally mounted front engine and all-wheel drive

Wheelbase (in / mm):

125 / 3175

Length (in / mm):

203.7 / 5174

Width (in / mm):

77.5 / 1968

Height (in / mm):

50 / 1270

Engine type:

3.6L V-6 with twin turbochargers; DOHC, continuously variable valve timing and direct injection

Horsepower (hp / kW):

425 / 317

Torque (lb-ft / Nm):

430 / 583

Transmission:

hybrid with low-speed all-electric drive

Front suspension:

Independent SLA with monotube shock absorbers and stabilizer bar

Rear suspension:

Independent multilink with monotube shock absorbers and stabilizer bar

Brakes:

Four-wheel disc with ABS; vented front rotors with six-piston calipers and solid rear rotors with four-piston calipers

Wheel Size and Type:

22 x 9-inch aluminum with brushed nickel accents

Tire Size:

265/35R22

http://wot.motortrend.com/cadillac-c...#ixzz1VvmxL2Am


This thing has to weigh at least 4300 lbs. While the twin-turbo V6 may be merely adequate, I get the feeling a V8 would be more appropriate. Or even an all-electric drive setup, offering instant, massive, and quiet torque.

 

 

I love it, looks very classy. America doesn't have a car that can hit the ultra luxury sector (Bentley, Bugatti, four seater roadsters)... but this would be it.

 

2002
V-16 OHV push rod built by Katech for GM
Cubic Inch 827 ci
Torque 980 lb-ft
Horsepower 1,000 bhp
RPM redline 6,000 rpm max
Engine Weight 695 lbs


From Katech site
Case Study – Cadillac XV16 Concept Engine
General Motors commissioned Katech to design and build the Cadillac XV16 concept engine for the Cadillac Sixteen Concept car debuted at the 2003 North American International Auto Show. This highlights the capabilities of our program management where we utilized all our available resources and expertise.
This engine utilized purpose cast block and heads to create a real running engine that met all GM’s objectives. The engine must exhibit smooth idle quality, low noise level and be “Jewel Like” in show appearance. It must also make 1,000 hp and 1,000 lb-ft torque.

Complete engine design based on LS6 architecture
Kick-off to first run on test cell: 7 months
Delivered to GM in under 8 months

Katech Designed and Manufactured:
• Highly modified LS6 architecture 16 cylinder block
•
• Inlet manifold
• 8 Bay dry sump
• Valve covers
• Dual elliptical throttle bodies
• 8 Stage scavenge pumps
• Highly styled beauty covers
97% of machining completed by Katech CNC Department
Engine program managed by Katech

Results:
1000 Horsepower
1000 Lb-Ft Torque

 

It would be sick if they tossed that in this car....

 

What the could do is go to KaTech and use this as the base for a "doubler"

Original
Engine type: 3.6L V-6 with twin turbochargers; DOHC, continuously variable valve timing and direct injection

Horsepower (hp / kW): 425 / 317

Torque (lb-ft / Nm): 430 / 583

Transmission: hybrid with low-speed all-electric drive

Doubled
Engine type: 7.2L V-12 with four turbochargers; DOHC, continuously variable valve timing and direct injection

Horsepower (hp / kW): 850 / 634

Torque (lb-ft / Nm): 860 / 1166

Transmission: hybrid with low-speed all-electric drive

 

I like the ciel...Twin turbo....hybrid. rwd...sounds great...for cadillac..

Not corvette but great for cadillac!

Outboosts fords ecoboost..

 

It would be sick if they could just build the Sixteen. This combined with the Ciel and Cien would make for a killer top-end lineup that no other single marque can match IMO. Maybe in better times, who knows...(I know, probably not going to happen.)

Here's an interesting take on the dearth of American offerings in the ultra luxury sector.
"Every S-Class or 7 Series sold on our soil (or in China) should be a knife in the heart of everyone employed by Cadillac and Lincoln, and even to a lesser extent Chrysler. Every Jaguar an opportunity squandered, every Rolls-Royce an opportunity lost. While staring at that majestic old Packard I was struck by the fact that I barely recognize it as American. It looks too nice. Yet back before WW2, that thought, that sensation, never would have crossed my mind."
http://blogs.motortrend.com/american...ough-5889.html

 

Problem with V6s is they weight the same as a SBC. They almost have the same external dimensions. I think if we are going for a smaller motor with similar power, it would be better to go with a 305, or hell, even smaller, but still be a pushrod V8, keeps the size and weight down, and then turbo charge it. Basically, do the same thing Buick did in the 80s and early 90s, but with todays know how and technology. I think the sky would be the limit, in that case.

 

I agree w/ kevin.

I'd rather have a 283 V8 (the smoothness/ the sound) than a 3.6 V6.

Direct injectiion, aluminum, headers, cold air and supercharger or turbos.
GM could even add its cylinder deactivation software, electronic power steer/ water pump, 8 speed trans.
Low weight, good power, good fuel economy, low hood height.

In a Vette I like a certain sound.
V8 and V12 produce that sound (V10 and V6 not so much) for me.
A Vette should not sound like a E Type Jag or Buick Grand Sport.

In regards to the Ceil...love the interior....dislike the front end. I would also guess that the exhaust and other noises are very quiet...it appears to be an executive sedan cruiser to me, not a sports car.

 

Speculation...