Anti-Roll system
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Anti-Roll system
With all of the anit-roll control systems hitting the market in bmw sedans, mercedes, suv's and even the revered 991 911, should the corvette such a system; it is worth the investment cost?
Personally, with all of the variable chassis systems currently on the market, sports cars may be seemingly less necessary unless they at least match the chassis technology of other high end sedans and suv's.
For reference, all the test of the 991 have given high marks to the variability of the PDCC system deployed, and at the same time certain reviews have criticized the non PDCC cars for being too harsh; presumably in an attempt to match the dynamic qualities of the PDCC cars.
What are your thoughts?
Personally, with all of the variable chassis systems currently on the market, sports cars may be seemingly less necessary unless they at least match the chassis technology of other high end sedans and suv's.
For reference, all the test of the 991 have given high marks to the variability of the PDCC system deployed, and at the same time certain reviews have criticized the non PDCC cars for being too harsh; presumably in an attempt to match the dynamic qualities of the PDCC cars.
What are your thoughts?
Successful Plumber
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From: Top of the hill, 3rd mailbox on the right. Texas
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10
NCM Member '09
The car pulls over 1g laterally.
The only way you're rolling it is to be so catastrophically out of shape that no mechanical or electronic system would save it.
The only way you're rolling it is to be so catastrophically out of shape that no mechanical or electronic system would save it.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: NorCal
I think the only ways to roll a C6 is either sliding it sideways (which would require the AH to be off....) into a curb at high speed or running off a moutain road down a steep slope. Anti roll wouldn't help either one of those scenarios, both of which are basically driver error.
My '06 Z51 does handle a litte differently than my '99 Durango - vettes don't need the same systems as SUVs...........
Racer
Joined: Feb 2012
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Active Roll Stabilization is an "active" suspension control system design to reduce body roll in cornering, resulting in improved handling. Whenever entering a corner, "lateral acceleration" is generated. Sensors read the level of body roll and communicate with the ECU or central "brain" which then processes this signal and coordinates various systems to respond. As a result, ARS actively generates resistance to body roll by twisting the front and rear anti-roll bars appropriate to the situation.
Guys not that kind of roll! We like the leaf springs, pushrods, six speeds, why add more systems, Active Roll Stabilization, Varable Steering, AWD with torque vectoring.
Guys not that kind of roll! We like the leaf springs, pushrods, six speeds, why add more systems, Active Roll Stabilization, Varable Steering, AWD with torque vectoring.
Last edited by CitationZ06@yahoo; Mar 22, 2012 at 03:01 PM.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2012
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You can still do all the doughnuts you want with an anti roll system, just the car will be leaning form side to side like a rubber duck in the ocean with out it. If that is the C7 of your dreams then OK.
You guys are getting the traction management and anti roll system confused. The C6 has that, if you can vote out your congressmen with a push of the button.
You guys are getting the traction management and anti roll system confused. The C6 has that, if you can vote out your congressmen with a push of the button.
Last edited by CitationZ06@yahoo; Mar 22, 2012 at 08:40 PM.
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
My C6 doesn't lean "form side to side like a rubber duck in the ocean". It doesn't even lean from side to side. It's obvious you either have not driven a C6, or your sense of equilibrium is off kilter.
Racer
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Over < on the left side I will introduce you to the sponsors who will gladly sell you a larger anti roll bar and some new shocks and bushings to stop that lean that you don't sense, but if you only drive 50 mph on sunny days you probably don't get it to rubber duck much.
Just kidding around. I have not driven a car with the anti roll system. I have no idea if it is good or bad, but I do feel like the mag shocks will be able to do a lot of the work of an anti roll system. Cheers enjoyed the tennis match. I think I may change my avatar to "Kilter"!
Just kidding around. I have not driven a car with the anti roll system. I have no idea if it is good or bad, but I do feel like the mag shocks will be able to do a lot of the work of an anti roll system. Cheers enjoyed the tennis match. I think I may change my avatar to "Kilter"!
Last edited by CitationZ06@yahoo; Mar 22, 2012 at 03:52 PM.
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
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Some of you are not understanding what the point of this system is. If one could vary the roll rates, then one could separate the disciplines of an anti-roll bar, the spring and the damper.
Lets say that you were to put much stiffer anti-roll bars on a c6, it would ride worse unless the springs or dampers compensated. The mp4-12c is a perfect example of this; variable roll/damper rates permit a softer spring.
The net effect would the vette not rolling at all which would help grip by equally distributing the weight on the tires throughout the turn, but wouldn't sacrifice ride comfort when you were in sport mode for example.
In terms of chassis dynamics, its just better. More complicated, but better, and my question now is would you be willing to pay for the upgrade if it wasn't standard. This debate is going on over on the rennlist forums.
Lets say that you were to put much stiffer anti-roll bars on a c6, it would ride worse unless the springs or dampers compensated. The mp4-12c is a perfect example of this; variable roll/damper rates permit a softer spring.
The net effect would the vette not rolling at all which would help grip by equally distributing the weight on the tires throughout the turn, but wouldn't sacrifice ride comfort when you were in sport mode for example.
In terms of chassis dynamics, its just better. More complicated, but better, and my question now is would you be willing to pay for the upgrade if it wasn't standard. This debate is going on over on the rennlist forums.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: Oakland, CA
PASM?
No doubt a "smart" anti roll bar would provide the car more ways to react and could deliver improved comfort/control. But how much of an improvement, and at what cost?
Corvette can do quite well without such a system, moreso than a lot of (even sports) cars, thanks to some other engineering choices that have gone into the car.
OTOH, it seems like just the kind of gizmo GM could use to improve Corvette's reputation and (while it was an option) profit margin.
On a related subject, I wonder if the smart dampers will become standard on C7, or if GM thinks they can still do better advertising a lower dump-damper base price and getting a lot of profitable option-ticking. (Or did they make them standard on C6 when I wasn't looking?)
.Jinx
No doubt a "smart" anti roll bar would provide the car more ways to react and could deliver improved comfort/control. But how much of an improvement, and at what cost?
Corvette can do quite well without such a system, moreso than a lot of (even sports) cars, thanks to some other engineering choices that have gone into the car.
OTOH, it seems like just the kind of gizmo GM could use to improve Corvette's reputation and (while it was an option) profit margin.
On a related subject, I wonder if the smart dampers will become standard on C7, or if GM thinks they can still do better advertising a lower dump-damper base price and getting a lot of profitable option-ticking. (Or did they make them standard on C6 when I wasn't looking?)
.Jinx
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,391
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From: Santa Barbara CA
All the comments about cars "rolling" (as in roll-over accident) are cracking me up.
This thread is about systems like BMW's ARS -- or Active Roll Stabilization. It's been on cars like the 745i/750i since 2002 and the 5-series since 2004. Having driven and fixed hundreds of these cars, the systems WORK and aren't that complex or problematic.
It's basically a hydraulically controlled sway bar at the front and rear of the car that replaces a traditional sway bar. When the car enters a fast turn, hydraulic pressure twists the sway bars to counter the body- roll effect. The result is a car that corners completely flat, but has great ride quality because it doesn't require a huge sway bar or stiff shocks.
I wish I had a video of the ARS system being calibrated in the shop on one of these cars. The sway bars are 'twisted' so hard that the entire car rocks from side-to-side. Pretty amazing to watch....
nevermind.... found one:
This thread is about systems like BMW's ARS -- or Active Roll Stabilization. It's been on cars like the 745i/750i since 2002 and the 5-series since 2004. Having driven and fixed hundreds of these cars, the systems WORK and aren't that complex or problematic.
It's basically a hydraulically controlled sway bar at the front and rear of the car that replaces a traditional sway bar. When the car enters a fast turn, hydraulic pressure twists the sway bars to counter the body- roll effect. The result is a car that corners completely flat, but has great ride quality because it doesn't require a huge sway bar or stiff shocks.
I wish I had a video of the ARS system being calibrated in the shop on one of these cars. The sway bars are 'twisted' so hard that the entire car rocks from side-to-side. Pretty amazing to watch....
nevermind.... found one:
Last edited by Streetk14; Mar 23, 2012 at 08:43 PM.
Safety Car
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lol at the members who thought roll over...Anyway the term anti-sway would have been a better description t use
but to answer your question, it is undoubtedly the future of anit-sway systems
I see the physical roll bar being something of an obsolete method of controlling body roll. You know like how traditional leaf springs, torsion bars, 4 wheel drums and solid rear axles on cars with the exception of trucks of course.
The end result is better ride quality and controlled body motions. Think of it as a secondary damper
for those who have no idea wtf we're talking about look at the green arrow -
but to answer your question, it is undoubtedly the future of anit-sway systems
I see the physical roll bar being something of an obsolete method of controlling body roll. You know like how traditional leaf springs, torsion bars, 4 wheel drums and solid rear axles on cars with the exception of trucks of course.
The end result is better ride quality and controlled body motions. Think of it as a secondary damper
for those who have no idea wtf we're talking about look at the green arrow -
