Originally Posted by Jinx

Let's hope 2014 isn't 1971 again.

Originally Posted by JoesC5

I understand that Jim, but when people expect the base car to equal or better the horsepower and performance of the outgoing high performance version, they're wrong in my opinion. The outgoing C1(1962) had 360 HP in the high performance version. The incoming C2 has 250 Hp in the base model. The out going C2 had 450+ HP(L88) and the incoming C3 had 300 HP, etc.

In your example, the outgoing high performance C4 had 405 HP(ZR-1), the base C4 had 300 HP, and the incoming C5 had 345 HP, not 405+ HP. Part of the performance inprovement of the C5 over the out going C4 was a reduction in weight of ~70 pounds.


Look at what the performance cost in a C5. A 2002 base coupe had a MSRP of $41,680. The 2002 Z06 had a MSRP of $50,430. $8750 for a 55 HP boost.

I expect there will be a slight horsepower jump in the base C7, but a large part of the performance increase will come from reduction of the car's weight(wouldn't surprize me to see a 150 pound drop). I expect the base C7 will out perform the Base C6 but to out perform a high performance C6 Z06 that costs 50% more then the base C6 isn't practical and shouldn't be expected. GM has to leave something on the table so it can offer a high performance version a couple of years later, to spur sales.

GM's performance numbers for the Z06 is 11.7 seconds for the 1/4 mile, and 11.3 seconds for the ZR1. People on this forum are expecting(wishing !!!!!!) that the base C7 will do 11.5 seconds in the 1/4 mile. I seriously doubt that from the base model.

A crate LS3 cost $6,200, a crate LS7 costs $13,550 and a crate LS9 costs $20,550. That extra 75 HP in the Z06 costs an extra $7350 and that extra 238 HP in the ZR1 cost an extra $14,350. Look at the MSRP of the various models and that extra cost is factored in.

To expect the outgoing C6 with either 505 or 638 Hp in the high performance modesl(Z06 & ZR1) to be the base horsepower of the C7 isn't going to happen or be expected.

Sure, if the additional cost of a high performance base C7 is amortized over the entire production run, the cost will be lower vs over a smaller limited production run, but that will also run up the cost of the base model. People are throwing out numbers like $60,000 for a base C7 that will perform better then the outgoing $80,000 Z06. You should know that increasing the cost of the entry level Corvette by 20% will eliminate a large number of buyers, thus decreasing sales, not increasing them. Then the production costs have to be spread over fewer cars being built/sold, further increasing the car's cost.

Originally Posted by JockItch

That's the scary part and part of the reason why I'm very much in favor of them raising the base price by providing a much improved quality and performance car. Sure, it will price certain people out of the market, but that may be needed if you want a significant performance jump and not some bastardized, neutered, fuel economy Corvette.

In this day of looming CAFE regulations, high performance V8's hopefully won't go away, they will just be more expensive and therefor lower volume cars (less of a effect of fleet averages).

Originally Posted by JockItch

That's the scary part and part of the reason why I'm very much in favor of them raising the base price by providing a much improved quality and performance car. Sure, it will price certain people out of the market, but that may be needed if you want a significant performance jump and not some bastardized, neutered, fuel economy Corvette.

In this day of looming CAFE regulations, high performance V8's hopefully won't go away, they will just be more expensive and therefor lower volume cars (less of a effect of fleet averages).

Originally Posted by Paulchristian

My arguement is this:

I tend to believe from the rumors we've heard, that there will only be a base car and one performance model (ZO6 or ZR1).

With a mid-level performer out of the line-up and all GS models out of the line up, isn't it pretty safe to assume that the base car will have to be a competitive performer out of the gate if there will be nothing between it and the one high performance model? I think so... If it doesn't hit the 500hp figure, I think it will be very close.

If a mid level performance model is produced, I take everything I said back. However, I don't think we will see one this time.

Originally Posted by John T

Hey Joe, One year at a time won't cut it in 2014.

Stay with me , I have a good argument :
the guys that will be quicker to trade up are the present day "Z" owners. They have more deposable income.
If the only C7 available for a year is a " mild " version the car, that will slow sales momentum .
Ox is always pushing for better marketing . Great product is the most cost effective way to market this car. The ONLY way to bring this car out of the hole is with a "good" motor, with exciting specs right from the beginning. Do an Eco version later.

Originally Posted by John T

Ox is always pushing for better marketing . Great product is the most cost effective way to market this car. The ONLY way to bring this car out of the hole is with a "good" motor, with exciting specs right from the beginning. Do an Eco version later.

Originally Posted by Kappa

That's fine, but don't expect C6 Z06 performance out of the base car. Simple as that.

The C6 vs the C5Z was an exception. The C5 wasn't that close to the C4 ZR-1.

If you want the car that traps 125+mph, better to wait for the Z06 than hope for the base car to replicate that type of performance.

Originally Posted by Paulchristian

The C6 vs the C5Z was an exception? How do you know this? How do you know that it's not a new direction moving forward made possible by better engineering and a competitive environment that all but demands it?

Originally Posted by JoesC5

Getting away from the internet rumors, how about a statement that was given to all the Chevrolet dealers in a printed brochure, that the C7 would not have the Grand Sport, the 427 Convertible, the Z06 or the ZR1 for quite a while. GM left the door open for the possiblity of a high performance C7 model in the future, but pretty much said not to expect one for the first or second year of production.

Based on what GM told the dealers, I wouldn't count on multiple C7 models being available for a while, if ever. Count on the 2014 to be just the base model; a coupe and a convertible. No one outside of GM knows what they are planing for 2015, 2016, 2017, etc. All we know is that there will not be a Grand Sport, a 427 Convertible, a Z06 or a ZR1 in 2014. Now GM might offer an option(but not a model) like the old Z51 RPO, for the high performance fans for 2014. We will just have to wait and see, won't we?

Best we take one year at a time, just as we have for the past 60 years of Corvettes.

Originally Posted by racebum

if the msrp of the c7 is around 50 there's no way they would be able to build a car that "easily handles" the c6z for that money.

i quit reading right there

Originally Posted by Kappa

Exactly.

You'll get a car that does 0-60 in ~3.8-4.0 and runs the quarter in the high 11 bracket at around 120. Skidpad a little over 1g with the good tire option(if there is one), etc, etc.

Hoping for a base C7 that does 125+ in the quarter just doesn't seem realistic to me.

I think it will slot right in between C6 GS and C6 Z06 levels of performance while offering better fuel economy, emissions, lighter weight, and much more advanced features.

Originally Posted by redvette77

When I read that the ZR1 variant was testing as the 'second fastest car in the world,' I literally laughed out loud. I love the Corvette and love to see it succeed. But sub-three-second zero-to-sixty times? The best way to keep from being disappointed when the C7 is finally revealed is to keep your expectations in some realm of reality.

Originally Posted by redvette77

When I read that the ZR1 variant was testing as the 'second fastest car in the world,' I literally laughed out loud. I love the Corvette and love to see it succeed. But sub-three-second zero-to-sixty times? The best way to keep from being disappointed when the C7 is finally revealed is to keep your expectations in some realm of reality.

Originally Posted by Paulchristian

but lets not act like a sub three second 0-60 is impossible. Add DCT and you might be there.