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Old 10-21-2012, 06:59 AM
  #341  
jdileo
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Originally Posted by Suns_PSD
Well for me I drive by myself 99% of the time. But I have to be able to haul my little girl in a pinch in a rear car seat. I don't want to have to buy an additional car for those occasions when my wife is out in the SUV.

The rear seats in my current car, total weigh less than 6#. The entire thing. I've pulled them and weighed them. No one wants a longer car and it's not needed to squeeze too tiny seats back there. There are many examples of this in other autos. They are used for small children and luggage only. In a pinch you can fit a 100 pound female back there.

The current C6 arrangement is needlessly wasteful of space and also it's very dangerous to place gear directly behind your freaking head. The interior dimensions of the C6 are definitely the worst and most outdated aspect of this car. The car is so huge on the outside, and so tiny on the inside.

I respect that some of you are "so racy" that you can drive a poorly arranged automobile every day. But Chevy would broaden their Vette customer base many times over if they just had some little back seats. All of the sudden the car is a valid comparison to the M3, 1M, 911 Carrera/ Turbo, etc... And all of those cars perform stupendously even hauling around 6# of back seats.

At 41 I might be one of the slightly younger and new style Vette enthusiasts that GM needs to rope in moving forward. I crave serious performance for track days and general hooliginisms which is what drove me here. Until recently I would have never considered a Vette and I was shopping for a 911 Turbo, or an M series Beemer. But the list of things that I dislike about the C6 is long. The interior is of poor quality, materials, and dimensions. Like really poor. The space is poorly utilized. Then to top is off the car is too large, especially to have so little interior space. The motors perform well, but at the minimum it needs DI for more effiency. Which should allow room for less displacement.

My ideal Vette would maintain C6 Z06 or better performance but it would also have:
- DI and decent mpg NA V8
- removable top
- some kind of back seats
- Smaller overall size
- Nice suede inserts and just a generally nicer interior
- 7 speed manual
- even lighter weight even though the current version is quite good in this regard.

If the C7 gets some back seats I will order a new one and trade in my current car next year. If no back seats, I'll buy one in 3 years used as a spare car only.
100% Agreed with everything you just said
Old 10-21-2012, 07:59 AM
  #342  
robvuk
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Originally Posted by Suns_PSD
Well for me I drive by myself 99% of the time. But I have to be able to haul my little girl in a pinch in a rear car seat. I don't want to have to buy an additional car for those occasions when my wife is out in the SUV.

The rear seats in my current car, total weigh less than 6#. The entire thing. I've pulled them and weighed them. No one wants a longer car and it's not needed to squeeze too tiny seats back there. There are many examples of this in other autos. They are used for small children and luggage only. In a pinch you can fit a 100 pound female back there.

The current C6 arrangement is needlessly wasteful of space and also it's very dangerous to place gear directly behind your freaking head. The interior dimensions of the C6 are definitely the worst and most outdated aspect of this car. The car is so huge on the outside, and so tiny on the inside.

I respect that some of you are "so racy" that you can drive a poorly arranged automobile every day. But Chevy would broaden their Vette customer base many times over if they just had some little back seats. All of the sudden the car is a valid comparison to the M3, 1M, 911 Carrera/ Turbo, etc... And all of those cars perform stupendously even hauling around 6# of back seats.

At 41 I might be one of the slightly younger and new style Vette enthusiasts that GM needs to rope in moving forward. I crave serious performance for track days and general hooliginisms which is what drove me here. Until recently I would have never considered a Vette and I was shopping for a 911 Turbo, or an M series Beemer. But the list of things that I dislike about the C6 is long. The interior is of poor quality, materials, and dimensions. Like really poor. The space is poorly utilized. Then to top is off the car is too large, especially to have so little interior space. The motors perform well, but at the minimum it needs DI for more effiency. Which should allow room for less displacement.

My ideal Vette would maintain C6 Z06 or better performance but it would also have:
- DI and decent mpg NA V8
- removable top
- some kind of back seats
- Smaller overall size
- Nice suede inserts and just a generally nicer interior
- 7 speed manual
- even lighter weight even though the current version is quite good in this regard.

If the C7 gets some back seats I will order a new one and trade in my current car next year. If no back seats, I'll buy one in 3 years used as a spare car only.
Although you bring up some good points, I think you are wrong about the "wasted space". I just ran a comparison against the M3 and the 911. The Corvette front passenger dimensions are greater than both. The M3 gives 2 extra inches of shoulder room. The interior volume isn't broken down into front, rear and cargo but the 3 combined gives the Vette about 15% more useable space than the M3 when you consider the doubling of cargo room which is what the back seats get used for in those other cars in most cases. But nevertheless, 15% more total useable space than the M3 with comparable passenger room. The 911 loses by a wide margin because of a total lack of cargo space. I think this is astonishing considering the M3 is 6 inches taller and 7 inches longer than the Vette. The Porsche is 3 inches taller and 1 inch longer. So the statement about huge on the outside and tiny on the inside applies more to the Vette competitors.
Old 10-21-2012, 10:29 AM
  #343  
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Originally Posted by Suns_PSD
Well for me I drive by myself 99% of the time. But I have to be able to haul my little girl in a pinch in a rear car seat. I don't want to have to buy an additional car for those occasions when my wife is out in the SUV.

The rear seats in my current car, total weigh less than 6#. The entire thing. I've pulled them and weighed them. No one wants a longer car and it's not needed to squeeze too tiny seats back there. There are many examples of this in other autos. They are used for small children and luggage only. In a pinch you can fit a 100 pound female back there.

The current C6 arrangement is needlessly wasteful of space and also it's very dangerous to place gear directly behind your freaking head. The interior dimensions of the C6 are definitely the worst and most outdated aspect of this car. The car is so huge on the outside, and so tiny on the inside.

I respect that some of you are "so racy" that you can drive a poorly arranged automobile every day. But Chevy would broaden their Vette customer base many times over if they just had some little back seats. All of the sudden the car is a valid comparison to the M3, 1M, 911 Carrera/ Turbo, etc... And all of those cars perform stupendously even hauling around 6# of back seats.

At 41 I might be one of the slightly younger and new style Vette enthusiasts that GM needs to rope in moving forward. I crave serious performance for track days and general hooliginisms which is what drove me here. Until recently I would have never considered a Vette and I was shopping for a 911 Turbo, or an M series Beemer. But the list of things that I dislike about the C6 is long. The interior is of poor quality, materials, and dimensions. Like really poor. The space is poorly utilized. Then to top is off the car is too large, especially to have so little interior space. The motors perform well, but at the minimum it needs DI for more effiency. Which should allow room for less displacement.

My ideal Vette would maintain C6 Z06 or better performance but it would also have:
- DI and decent mpg NA V8
- removable top
- some kind of back seats
- Smaller overall size
- Nice suede inserts and just a generally nicer interior
- 7 speed manual
- even lighter weight even though the current version is quite good in this regard.

If the C7 gets some back seats I will order a new one and trade in my current car next year. If no back seats, I'll buy one in 3 years used as a spare car only.
If you want a GM product buy a Camaro ZL1 or 1LE. It has what you want. If you can wait, wait for the next gen model that will be smaller and lighter base on the same platform as the Cadillac ATS.

Seriously, not every model can be for every person.

Does noone remember the abomination that was the Datsun 260Z 2+2? They took a good looking sports car and tried to make it something for everyone.
Old 10-21-2012, 11:48 AM
  #344  
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Just found this thread, so this is replying to the OP.

I favorited this page, so we'll see what is true and what isn't.

But the 2+2 makes sense in some ways. The base Corvette has had so much trunk space (yes, I know it's necessary for removeable tops) that they probably could pull off a four-seater.

As for dropping the wide-body design, I guess if the goal of the car is to be more compact, that makes sense. Still, it's hard to believe that they would offer a 530 HP base model and 730 HP ZR1 with nothing in between. It'll be interesting to see how they get to 730 HP (i.e. supercharger vs. turbocharger). I also hope those bucket seats we saw in last week's spy shots are offered on the ZR1.

Finally (at least as far as performance is concerned), could the base model really produce 530 HP? I understand that this is an entirely new engine and that the base model of the new generation usually tops the previous generation's performance version (i.e. C5 had more power than the C4 ZR-1, C6 had more power than the C5 Z06), but I was under the impression we were looking at 440-470 HP.

Call me skeptical, but hey, I hope you're right about half of those things.
Old 10-21-2012, 12:57 PM
  #345  
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im getting really sick of reading about this 2+2 stuff, and the two posters that keep pushing it and you know who you are. you want a back seat find another car because its not happening with the corvette. it doesn't suit your needs? than find a car that will. 60yrs of heritage down the drain because two people want it. give it up because it ain't happening. the 2+2 concept is EVERYTHING THE CORVETTE IS NOT ABOUT. when are you going to get it into your thick skulls!!!
Old 10-21-2012, 01:22 PM
  #346  
John T
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Originally Posted by red2012
im getting really sick of reading about this 2+2 stuff, and the two posters that keep pushing it and you know who you are. you want a back seat find another car because its not happening with the corvette. it doesn't suit your needs? than find a car that will. 60yrs of heritage down the drain because two people want it. give it up because it ain't happening. the 2+2 concept is EVERYTHING THE CORVETTE IS NOT ABOUT. when are you going to get it into your thick skulls!!!
Hello Red,
You have mentioned that you are dead nuts positive that there is no 2+2 , right?

Also, you are carved in stone there will be no DOHC on the C7 , right?

So Red, why do you care what "know nothings" like myself have to say?
Old 10-21-2012, 01:43 PM
  #347  
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Originally Posted by John T
Hello Red,
You have mentioned that you are dead nuts positive that there is no 2+2 , right?

Also, you are carved in stone there will be no DOHC on the C7 , right?

So Red, why do you care what "know nothings" like myself have to say?
i guess you can't read either. i never mentioned anything about dead nuts positive about 2+2 seats. it is my strong opinion that it will not happen nor should it. as far as the DOHC i never mentioned that part other than the fact that i said i didn't believe a word of the op's original thread. get your head out of your a&*s and think logically that the corvette will not be 2+2. it is the one item that is totally against what the corvette is about. BTW you said 'know nothing' i never said anything like that but if you say it i guess you know something about your brain capacity that i don't.
Old 10-21-2012, 02:14 PM
  #348  
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Major clues about the new C7 came out today.

Just 20 minutes ago an official GM Corvette spokesman was speaking on camera during the ABC coverage of the Petit Le Mans. He was unveiling the new C7 Logo to the racing fans.

While speaking, and hyping the new C7 he stated that the C7 is completely revolutionary and not merely evolutionary.

He further stated with great drama and enthusiasm that "there are only TWO PARTS on the ENTIRE C7 CAR that are carry overs and interchangeable with the C6 generation."

One was the cabin A/C air filter and the other was a non-mechanical component.

If this is true, then perhaps everything at the beginning of this string is pretty spot on.

I apologize if all of this has been previously posted.

Last edited by B747VET; 10-21-2012 at 02:21 PM.
Old 10-21-2012, 02:14 PM
  #349  
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Originally Posted by TractionControlOff
Just found this thread, so this is replying to the OP.

I favorited this page, so we'll see what is true and what isn't.

But the 2+2 makes sense in some ways. The base Corvette has had so much trunk space (yes, I know it's necessary for removeable tops) that they probably could pull off a four-seater.

As for dropping the wide-body design, I guess if the goal of the car is to be more compact, that makes sense. Still, it's hard to believe that they would offer a 530 HP base model and 730 HP ZR1 with nothing in between. It'll be interesting to see how they get to 730 HP (i.e. supercharger vs. turbocharger). I also hope those bucket seats we saw in last week's spy shots are offered on the ZR1.

Finally (at least as far as performance is concerned), could the base model really produce 530 HP? I understand that this is an entirely new engine and that the base model of the new generation usually tops the previous generation's performance version (i.e. C5 had more power than the C4 ZR-1, C6 had more power than the C5 Z06), but I was under the impression we were looking at 440-470 HP.

Call me skeptical, but hey, I hope you're right about half of those things.
Small corrections. The C5 did not have more power than the C4 ZR-1. It took several years for the C5 Z06 to show up, and an additional year for it to match the C4 ZR-1. Also, the C6 did not have as much peak hp or torque as the out-going C5 Z06. It took 4 production years for the base C6 to beat it in power.

With that thinking, there won't be a 530hp base C7. At least initially.
Old 10-21-2012, 02:17 PM
  #350  
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Originally Posted by B747VET
Major clues about the new C7 came out today.

Just 20 minutes ago an official GM Corvette spokesman was speaking on camera during the ABC coverage of the Petit Le Mans. He was unveiling the new C7 Logo to the racing fans.

While speaking, and hyping the new C7 he stated that the C7 is completely revolutionary, not evolutionary.

He further stated that "there are only TWO PARTS on the ENTIRE C7 CAR that are carry overs and interchangeable with the C6 generation."

One was the cabin A/C air filter and the other was a non-mechanical component.

If this is true, then perhaps everything at the beginning of this string is pretty spot on.

I apologize if all of this has been previously posted.
quite alright. but yes this info was posted days ago.
Old 10-21-2012, 02:24 PM
  #351  
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Originally Posted by red2012
quite alright. but yes this info was posted days ago.
So, my post was not evolutionary, let alone revolutionary...
Old 10-21-2012, 03:36 PM
  #352  
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Originally Posted by red2012
i guess you can't read either. i never mentioned anything about dead nuts positive about 2+2 seats. it is my strong opinion that it will not happen nor should it. as far as the DOHC i never mentioned that part other than the fact that i said i didn't believe a word of the op's original thread. get your head out of your a&*s and think logically that the corvette will not be 2+2. it is the one item that is totally against what the corvette is about. BTW you said 'know nothing' i never said anything like that but if you say it i guess you know something about your brain capacity that i don't.
How should one respond to your crude remarks Red?

I guess it is possible you would behave in a similar way if we were physically closer but I am quite sure you would either be armed with a weapon or have a lawyer by you side. It is quite evident that you don't "roll solo".
Old 10-21-2012, 03:45 PM
  #353  
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It's funny...this thread makes the C7 seem so much like the Ferrari 599. Next thing we know, the C7 will have a V12.
Old 10-21-2012, 05:05 PM
  #354  
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Originally Posted by John T
How should one respond to your crude remarks Red?

I guess it is possible you would behave in a similar way if we were physically closer but I am quite sure you would either be armed with a weapon or have a lawyer by you side. It is quite evident that you don't "roll solo".
JOHN lets just leave it as you don't respond to my post and i won't respond to yours. my remarks aren't crude, you maybe just don't want to hear the truth. as far as flying solo you couldn't be farther from the truth to make those comments in as much you don't know me one bit. but if i makes you happy i will respond that yes i fly very much solo and could take care of myself without the after mentioned devices you so allure to.
Old 10-21-2012, 05:20 PM
  #355  
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My educated opinion is that it will never go in the 2 second range, nor consistently, with 2wd. Those other cars are AWD. Not buying it, hope Im wrong, but just don't see it.
Old 10-21-2012, 06:21 PM
  #356  
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Originally Posted by John T
You are right Justin, I guess each one of us would like to see the Corvette become the car we have always dreamed it could be. There in lies the problem . Everybody dreams a different dream.
Well John, there are different cars available that fit your dreams. Go buy a Porsche 911 (but OMG, not a Cayman - What WAS Porsche thinking?), Camaro, Mustang, Jag, Aston, Ferrari California, etc.
Old 10-21-2012, 06:32 PM
  #357  
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Originally Posted by B747VET
Major clues about the new C7 came out today.

Just 20 minutes ago an official GM Corvette spokesman was speaking on camera during the ABC coverage of the Petit Le Mans. He was unveiling the new C7 Logo to the racing fans.

While speaking, and hyping the new C7 he stated that the C7 is completely revolutionary and not merely evolutionary.

He further stated with great drama and enthusiasm that "there are only TWO PARTS on the ENTIRE C7 CAR that are carry overs and interchangeable with the C6 generation."

One was the cabin A/C air filter and the other was a non-mechanical component.

If this is true, then perhaps everything at the beginning of this string is pretty spot on.

I apologize if all of this has been previously posted.
it was the chief corvette guy and the parts are the cabin air filter and roof latch.

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Old 10-21-2012, 06:34 PM
  #358  
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Originally Posted by jackhall99
Well John, there are different cars available that fit your dreams. Go buy a Porsche 911 (but OMG, not a Cayman - What WAS Porsche thinking?), Camaro, Mustang, Jag, Aston, Ferrari California, etc.
Thanks Jack, I am a single Dad with 4 kids..6,8,11, and 17 years old. I was driving a 911 cabriolet when I met their mom. Only now do I realize that is why she married me! How sad that women are like that !
Anyway, a 911 is a great car but the C7 is going to be off the charts and very, very desirable . Speculating about the C7 is some of the most fun I ever had...
Old 10-21-2012, 06:55 PM
  #359  
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Originally Posted by John T
Thanks Jack, I am a single Dad with 4 kids..6,8,11, and 17 years old. I was driving a 911 cabriolet when I met their mom. Only now do I realize that is why she married me! How sad that women are like that !
Anyway, a 911 is a great car but the C7 is going to be off the charts and very, very desirable . Speculating about the C7 is some of the most fun I ever had...


I hear ya on all point amigo. Been there; done that. Needing a mini-van was a point in my life, as was the car/chick thing in Southern California years ago.

I enjoy the C7 speculation John, but reading posts of those who pontificate just what GM MUST do with it to insure the car, Chevrolet, and GM succeed, or duplicate other available cars of their dreams, gets stale.

And God forbid if some of us post anything different than their opinion, or post facts to refute their comments. We are instant know-it-alls or A-holes.

I realize we can ignore each other, but that would kill the forum.

As I've done since the mid-fifties, I patiently wait for the official announcement. January will be here soon. Then watch it hit the fan with complaints, once again, on what GM produced for us.

Highest regards, Jack
Old 10-21-2012, 08:17 PM
  #360  
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I don't believe the 2+2 rumor for a second. Why? It's too risky and too costly to develop. I have nothing but anecdotal information to go by, but GM is very likely to lose a lot more traditional and loyal Corvette enthusiasts than it is to attract a new market by making this dramatic change. My recollection is that the mean income for a Porsche 991 owner is in excess of $300K a year. I don't see many of this group being interested in buying a Chevy product since they are driven as much by perceived brand prestige as by performance.

Corvette owners on the other hand are by and large hard core car enthusiasts who value performance and style above all else. Of course there are exceptions to my characterizations since there are some people who own both brands, but IMO they are the exception to the rule. I just don't see doctors, lawyers, and Wall Streeters buying a Chevy product. If you haven't had the opportunity, test drive a Porsche 991. It is more GT car than sports car, but I expect that Porsche's marketing surveys indicate that this is exactly the type of car that their customers crave.


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