What will we hear about the C7 engine tomorrow??
10-23-2012, 11:53 PM
#41
Team Owner
What I find hard to swallow is that if this is their halo car,world class this,interior that blah blah,why in hell will a Camaro have more HP? 580 vs 400 anything or even 505-525...Yea,yea,I know,lighter faster all that,but the HP number speaks to people too!I think they will present a car that resembles a Ferarri and they will bump the ponies aprox.50 ot so over the c6 base car.I'd love for them to stick 580 or more hp in there personally! 
10-24-2012, 12:31 AM
#44
Le Mans Master
.Jinx
10-24-2012, 01:22 AM
#45
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10-24-2012, 01:26 AM
#46
Safety Car
When the C6 Z06 was unveiled at the Detroit show in January of 2005 the advertised horsepower was 500. All the press releases and magazine stories showed 500. The show cars and captured test fleet cars had simple Z06 fender emblems with no horsepower up until April, some were at the Bash in BG. Then in April 2005, SAE certified testing "found" another 5 horsepower. New Z06 emblems with "505 HP" added were produced and appeared before production of customer ordered cars began.
Even if the horsepower we see in January seems disappointing to some guys here, don't forget to do the math and calculate the pounds-per-horsepower compared to the C6 and get a pleasant surprise. And a few months later it just might get a little bump. The big story of the base C7 will be an outstanding blend of performance and efficiency (mpg). It's not supposed to beat the Z06 or ZL1, later C7 variants will do that.
.
Even if the horsepower we see in January seems disappointing to some guys here, don't forget to do the math and calculate the pounds-per-horsepower compared to the C6 and get a pleasant surprise. And a few months later it just might get a little bump. The big story of the base C7 will be an outstanding blend of performance and efficiency (mpg). It's not supposed to beat the Z06 or ZL1, later C7 variants will do that.
.
Last edited by ZL-1; 10-24-2012 at 01:30 AM.
10-24-2012, 02:28 AM
#48
my guess is 485-490hp. DI 6.2L with vvt. bam.
so what time will this info be released and where will i be able to find it? on facebook or here or onethireen13.com? im so anxious!
so what time will this info be released and where will i be able to find it? on facebook or here or onethireen13.com? im so anxious!
10-24-2012, 03:02 AM
#50
Drifting
How is he lying if he provides details about the engine that will power the C7 without releasing the peak horsepower or peak torque figure? I've watched the video, he never says anything more specific than "details." And he says they owe the media the story of the C7 powertrain in answer to why they're not releasing it to the public at Petit LeMans, not that they owe the media horsepower or torque figures at a specific time.
.Jinx
.Jinx
When the C6 Z06 was unveiled at the Detroit show in January of 2005 the advertised horsepower was 500. All the press releases and magazine stories showed 500. The show cars and captured test fleet cars had simple Z06 fender emblems with no horsepower up until April, some were at the Bash in BG. Then in April 2005, SAE certified testing "found" another 5 horsepower. New Z06 emblems with "505 HP" added were produced and appeared before production of customer ordered cars began.
Even if the horsepower we see in January seems disappointing to some guys here, don't forget to do the math and calculate the pounds-per-horsepower compared to the C6 and get a pleasant surprise. And a few months later it just might get a little bump. The big story of the base C7 will be an outstanding blend of performance and efficiency (mpg). It's not supposed to beat the Z06 or ZL1, later C7 variants will do that.
.
Even if the horsepower we see in January seems disappointing to some guys here, don't forget to do the math and calculate the pounds-per-horsepower compared to the C6 and get a pleasant surprise. And a few months later it just might get a little bump. The big story of the base C7 will be an outstanding blend of performance and efficiency (mpg). It's not supposed to beat the Z06 or ZL1, later C7 variants will do that.
.
What I find hard to swallow is that if this is their halo car,world class this,interior that blah blah,why in hell will a Camaro have more HP? 580 vs 400 anything or even 505-525...Yea,yea,I know,lighter faster all that,but the HP number speaks to people too!I think they will present a car that resembles a Ferarri and they will bump the ponies aprox.50 ot so over the c6 base car.I'd love for them to stick 580 or more hp in there personally!
As ZL-1 said, the real deal will be once the engines are SAE rated. For the zr1 GM had came right out and said our target is 100hp/L for the "super vette" before it's release I believe. Then sure enough one morning, SAE testing certified it at 638. Numbers wont be given out today, save maybe for displacement.
Keep in mind there is ONE engine currently made which we can use as a realistic comparison to this new v8. The new hemi's always made comparable power to the LSx's. I wont get into which is better(duh we know which is) but by the numbers, they are comparable, ESPECIALLY the versions with variable cam timing. That being said, the 6.4 Hemi makes 470hp @ 6000 rpms, 470lb ft @ 4200rpms, has 10.9 compression, and redlines at 6400. That engine has variable cam timing, so the torque curve is really pretty fat, and hp peaks fairly high.
With that in mind, it's really hard to swallow a variable cam timing 5.5 v8 even with direct injection exceding the current ls3's power(keep in mind a huge part of direct injection's power comes from running serious compression/timing and that hemi is already 10.9 comression). Now a 6.2 with variable cam timing/direct injection, yeah, thats a solid 480+hp motor with improved fuel mileage as well. For a 5.5 to do that, you'd essentially be asking for a 20% increase in power from an ls6, an already hot motor, and one that's still .2 liters larger. I've kept that Hemi in the back of my mind from the start of the 5.5 rumour. I just don't see it being that small and surpassing the ls3's output, which is the bare necessity.
10-24-2012, 03:56 AM
#51
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http://www.gmpowertrain.com/VehicleE...nProducts.aspx
GM lists the engine mass as 403lbs, but also lists the GS Manual Coupe as 466 lbs, which I assume is from the dry sump. There is no information given as to the state of dress of the engines, but if the Manual GS LS3 weighs 53 lbs more, I would think it would have to be taking into account additional oil capacity from the dry sump, suggesting that fluids are there...
LS7 is 454. Again, presumably the extra weight is due to the extra oil capacity from the dry sump system. I assume the ~12 lbs savings between LS7 and LS3 dry sump is related to the Ti parts in the LS7? It's also possible that GM's site has the original, smaller dry sump, and the more recent GS LS3 has the larger dry sump, so that a newer LS7 that also got the larger dry sump tank would be closer to 466?
Unfortunately engine mass is not listed for either the LSA or LS9 supercharged Gen IV engines.
This also illustrates why a smaller displacement V8, such as 5.5L, will likely not really gain much weight-wise. Since we know Gen V retains the 4.4" bore spacing, it should have roughly the same external dimensions as Gen IV. Hopefully the Gen V will be a bit lighter than Gen IV, regardless of displacement, from increased optimization of the engine, removing material where it is not needed. The Gen III and IV engines were already very good in this respect though, so there might not be much for them to cut. Or diminishing returns might be such that they didn't take the engineering time to go after them, vs. doing something else.
I don't really expect to get details to the level of the current engines listed on the powertrain site linked above, but hope we see displacement, power outputs, what the "new combustion system is, whether or not the engine has VVT and/or VVL, and if so in what capacity. If they've made a significant weight reduction they might want to brag about it now, as well.
As far as my guess: 6.2L Anywhere from 440 to ~512 hp should be achievable, depending on how much they sacrificed power for fuel economy. We may all end up with a pleasant surprise if the "new combustion system" ends up being similar to DI in that it allows increased economy as well as increased power...
GM lists the engine mass as 403lbs, but also lists the GS Manual Coupe as 466 lbs, which I assume is from the dry sump. There is no information given as to the state of dress of the engines, but if the Manual GS LS3 weighs 53 lbs more, I would think it would have to be taking into account additional oil capacity from the dry sump, suggesting that fluids are there...
LS7 is 454. Again, presumably the extra weight is due to the extra oil capacity from the dry sump system. I assume the ~12 lbs savings between LS7 and LS3 dry sump is related to the Ti parts in the LS7? It's also possible that GM's site has the original, smaller dry sump, and the more recent GS LS3 has the larger dry sump, so that a newer LS7 that also got the larger dry sump tank would be closer to 466?
Unfortunately engine mass is not listed for either the LSA or LS9 supercharged Gen IV engines.
This also illustrates why a smaller displacement V8, such as 5.5L, will likely not really gain much weight-wise. Since we know Gen V retains the 4.4" bore spacing, it should have roughly the same external dimensions as Gen IV. Hopefully the Gen V will be a bit lighter than Gen IV, regardless of displacement, from increased optimization of the engine, removing material where it is not needed. The Gen III and IV engines were already very good in this respect though, so there might not be much for them to cut. Or diminishing returns might be such that they didn't take the engineering time to go after them, vs. doing something else.
I don't really expect to get details to the level of the current engines listed on the powertrain site linked above, but hope we see displacement, power outputs, what the "new combustion system is, whether or not the engine has VVT and/or VVL, and if so in what capacity. If they've made a significant weight reduction they might want to brag about it now, as well.
As far as my guess: 6.2L Anywhere from 440 to ~512 hp should be achievable, depending on how much they sacrificed power for fuel economy. We may all end up with a pleasant surprise if the "new combustion system" ends up being similar to DI in that it allows increased economy as well as increased power...
Last edited by JSBJohn; 10-24-2012 at 04:00 AM.
10-24-2012, 04:19 AM
#53
Drifting
Do you imagine this engine has VVL? IT would be the most awesome Engine ever produced PERIOD...
imagine a 7L with VVL... Striker Camshaft upper cam with stock like idle... Best of both worlds!
imagine a 7L with VVL... Striker Camshaft upper cam with stock like idle... Best of both worlds!
10-24-2012, 05:31 AM
#54
Team Owner
10-24-2012, 06:19 AM
#55
Race Director
Thread Starter
How is he lying if he provides details about the engine that will power the C7 without releasing the peak horsepower or peak torque figure? I've watched the video, he never says anything more specific than "details." And he says they owe the media the story of the C7 powertrain in answer to why they're not releasing it to the public at Petit LeMans, not that they owe the media horsepower or torque figures at a specific time.
.Jinx
.Jinx
But hey, if he doesn't, he doesn't.
10-24-2012, 06:37 AM
#58
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for sure it will be > 430hp. That we can all assume to be a correct statement. Not really going to compare high end Camaro vs. Base Model Corvette and say that the C7 must surpass the HP of that Camaro.
10-24-2012, 09:10 AM
#59
Race Director
Its the following; 6.2L, DI, GM variable cam timing. GM was considering making a iron block version but is probably going to opt against it.(weight mainly) 480HP, 450 tq.
New EPA mandates essentially prevent the motor from being a high-revver (what you need to make power for a smaller displacement). Next motor version (after this) will be some form of 'ecoboost' as that's essentially the only way newer motors can meet regulations and make any sort of power.
But what do I know? Could be an air cooled two cylinder diesel.
New EPA mandates essentially prevent the motor from being a high-revver (what you need to make power for a smaller displacement). Next motor version (after this) will be some form of 'ecoboost' as that's essentially the only way newer motors can meet regulations and make any sort of power.
But what do I know? Could be an air cooled two cylinder diesel.
10-24-2012, 09:20 AM
#60
Race Director
LS7 is a 427, not 454. I believe there is validity to the 5.5L claims as well as the claims that the engine power output will be higher as well as more efficient with direct injection and engine cylinder shut off. This engine will also be going into GM's truck and suv line up and possibly their next gen sports coupes and sedans.
Jimmy