Dual clutch Transmision
07-01-2013, 01:03 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Dual clutch Transmision
I was disappointed that the C-7 did no have a dual clutch transmission, has anyone heard when and if that may happen thanks, SEVETGO
07-01-2013, 01:33 PM
#5
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Apr 2013
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2020 C8 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Disappointed there's no DCT?
The line starts in Passaic and ends in Poughkeepsie.
To end the beat the dead horse thread: Its because most likely of the cost and the ability to package it in the existing design. Don't look for it anytime soon -- at least a couple of years.
The line starts in Passaic and ends in Poughkeepsie.
To end the beat the dead horse thread: Its because most likely of the cost and the ability to package it in the existing design. Don't look for it anytime soon -- at least a couple of years.
07-01-2013, 01:35 PM
#6
Pro
http://drivelinenews.com/transmissio...paign=June2013
Maybe this will lead to something good in the future...
Maybe this will lead to something good in the future...
07-01-2013, 02:02 PM
#8
I will stick with a man's manual and I can live without the glorified automatic. One thing i love and respect about the corvette team, is that they are the only one's that I can think of in the world that are trying to IMPROVE the manual transmission. I'm obsessed with the right car brand 
07-01-2013, 02:40 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Do a search on this forum, you will find a plethera of locked threads where everything that could and shouldn't be said about this topic has been said, over and over and over again. 
07-01-2013, 02:47 PM
#12
Race Director
It's real, not a dream.
The REAL upside is that the OP framed the thread so that maybe a real discussion can be had (many kudos to the OP, by the way!).
I think a DCT will appear sometime in the C7's life. That said, I have no desire for a DCT or any other automatic, I want to enjoy 3 pedals for a little while longer (I fear 3 pedal sports cars will be gone completely in the next 10 years or so).
Jimmy
The REAL upside is that the OP framed the thread so that maybe a real discussion can be had (many kudos to the OP, by the way!).
I think a DCT will appear sometime in the C7's life. That said, I have no desire for a DCT or any other automatic, I want to enjoy 3 pedals for a little while longer (I fear 3 pedal sports cars will be gone completely in the next 10 years or so).
Jimmy
07-01-2013, 03:06 PM
#13
Disappointed there's no DCT?
The line starts in Passaic and ends in Poughkeepsie.
To end the beat the dead horse thread: Its because most likely of the cost and the ability to package it in the existing design. Don't look for it anytime soon -- at least a couple of years.
The line starts in Passaic and ends in Poughkeepsie.
To end the beat the dead horse thread: Its because most likely of the cost and the ability to package it in the existing design. Don't look for it anytime soon -- at least a couple of years.
Question: Why don't you have a compass built into the rear view mirror?
Answer: It's almost impossible for us to do that ... blah blah!!!
Hmmmmmmm!!!!
And I might add that Corvette is always using the Porsche as a benchmark. Porsche has had their PDK for a few years now.
Corvette did adapt the Porsche "no place to put your front plate" idea.
BB
07-01-2013, 03:31 PM
#14
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It would be a Great Public Service to all, if our Mods choose to lock this thread, before it goes where it always does - not to mention this is a repeat, of a repeat, of a repeat Thread, which are rightly frowned upon 
07-01-2013, 03:39 PM
#15
Race Director
I'll give the potiential for a DCT a few years.
Interestingly enough jaguars f type ZF transmission rated equal to Porsches PDK dual clutch unit in the Boxster S ..
If gm were to advance transmission design on its torque convertor automatic to the same level as ZF ...the dual clutch transmission will never make it to corvette.
I'm a huge fan of dual clutch transmissions and in fact want my next sports car to have one instead of the manual transmission I've been enjoying in my sports cars for over 35 years...
Check out the road and track comparison test between the f type and Boxster .....
First time a torque convertor automatic actually equalled performance feel of a dual clutch
Interestingly enough jaguars f type ZF transmission rated equal to Porsches PDK dual clutch unit in the Boxster S ..
If gm were to advance transmission design on its torque convertor automatic to the same level as ZF ...the dual clutch transmission will never make it to corvette.
I'm a huge fan of dual clutch transmissions and in fact want my next sports car to have one instead of the manual transmission I've been enjoying in my sports cars for over 35 years...
Check out the road and track comparison test between the f type and Boxster .....
First time a torque convertor automatic actually equalled performance feel of a dual clutch
07-01-2013, 03:41 PM
#16
Race Director
The Comparison: 2014 Jaguar F-Type S vs. 2013 Porsche Boxster S
Into the woods with two hot roadsters.
By Sam Posey June 20, 2013 / Photos by Heather McGrath
SLIDESHOW: 2014 JAGUAR F-TYPE VS. 2013 PORSCHE BOXSTER
Northwestern Connecticut comes with grazing cows, Colonial architecture, and stately oaks—a bucolic setting that invites you to drive, top down, along the many lovely back roads. But we didn't head there to soak up the scenery. We went to see how Jaguar's return to the roadster arena compares with the niche's all-star in a shootout that was referred to around the office as the Battle of the Berkshires. Porsche's Boxster S versus Jaguar's stunning F-Type S: Scoring would be in 10 categories, with up to five points awarded in each.
Both have blue-blood racing heritage. Jaguar has won Le Mans seven times; Porsche, a record 16. Beyond that, our two cars have little in common, starting with the way they look. The F-Type has a mammoth, air-gulping "mouth" intended to suggest great power; instead, it suggests Aston Martin's similar visual effect, which was designed by the same man. No matter. It's a classic shape, and it blends beautifully with the headlight assembly. The back has a narrow band of taillights that accentuates the Jag's width and contributes to its firm stance. The looks make a strong first impression, and the subtleties of the car's styling reward further inspection—for example, door handles that open with the push of a button and retract like airplane wheels when the car moves off.
The F-Type uses styling cues intended to give it a romantic flair, while the Boxster's look is self-referential, its proportions dictated by its mid-engine layout. No illusions here; what you see is what you get. The great architect Louis Kahn advocated using materials in the way that best suited them, and he would have been delighted with how each of the Boxster's components seemingly knew exactly where it should go. (One exception: the little spoiler at the back, a fussy feature that detracts from the total effect.)
In the cockpit, both cars score high marks with seats that provide excellent support and are infinitely adjustable. As for elegance, there's a profligate use of hand-stitched leather. The Jag features a large, rather strange handle that helps the passenger get settled. The car really envelops you, its beltline somewhere around your chin, hood looming large, along with vents that rise from the dash like surveillance cameras when the ignition is switched on. The Porsche is more relaxed, easier to get into and to see out of. You feel at home immediately.
Heather McGrath
The couple of seconds between pushing a car's start button (or turning its key) and an engine settling into an idle has become a creative opportunity up there with nuancing the sound and feel of a door slam. Here, the Boxster offers nothing special, while the engineers at Jag have the F-Type emitting a joyous blast, its tach surging toward the redline. The loud bark that follows ruins any hope of a stealthy getaway.
We took the cars out into a world of green—the glowing hills of a Northeast summer—driving fast along narrow, winding roads with names like White Hollow and Salmon Kill. Suspension? The Boxster has struts all around, the Jag a control-arm setup, and both cars flirt with the line between sporty and just plain too stiff. Steering? The Jaguar's feels faster, maybe a touch too fast, but both cars have just the right amount of power assist. And the steering wheels on both cars have thick, Formula 1-style rims. Each accelerator gives just the right travel and resistance. The Boxster was well-planted, covering ground with a relaxed gait, a car that inspired confidence. The Jag flowed as easily along the same roads, its engine responsive to the lightest touch, its exhaust a satisfying bellow, with much popping and crackling as the car coasted. All these sounds were electronic creations, but who cares? We had a sunny day, two fine cars, and a date with Lime Rock Park's 1.5 miles of asphalt. So far, the Boxster and the F-Type had scored pretty evenly, with the edge going to the Porsche. It's more sure-footed, a little less bouncy than the Jag, although we're splitting hairs. As we pulled onto Lime Rock's sinewy asphalt, we wondered: Would lapping a track even things out?
This was the time for these cars' racing heritage, the pur-sang stuff, to show itself. On paper, it was a classic confrontation between horsepower and handling. The Jag's edge was its supercharged 3.0-liter V6, delivering a stout 380 hp, while the Porsche's advantage came from its mid-engine layout and rear-biased, 46/54 weight distribution. Not that the 315-hp Boxster was exactly underpowered. The two cars' 0-to-60 times were almost the same, in the low four-second bracket, the Jag a staggering 684 pounds heavier but also more powerful.
The pleasant surprise was the Jaguar's handling. It understeered, but far less than expected. Nonetheless, as lap times came in, the Porsche's superiority was conclusive and absolute. It could go deeper into the turns, the brake pedal alive under your foot, telling you exactly what was going on. The Jag could go almost as deep, but without the feel for the limit. The Porsche oversteered usefully, which is to say you could get the tail out and steer with the throttle, making it more agile in the turns.
Heather McGrath
Both cars offered an array of handling options, from letting the car virtually drive itself to having no electronic interference at all. We preferred the latter, but regardless of setting, the Boxster just ran off into the distance. It turned 1:02s in the hands of your rapid Editor-in-Chief Larry Webster, while the best he could do in the Jag was more than two seconds slower. (Keep in mind that slow is a relative term. By Lime Rock standards, these cars were blisteringly fast—at least a second under what the railbirds predicted.)
The most progressive component of either car was its transmission. The F-Type's eight-speed ZF automatic is a magnificent piece of engineering, one of the best transmissions in the business. At Lime Rock, it used second through sixth, snapping off shifts with none of the laziness common to torque converters, and the shifts were so smooth and telepathic that they were barely noticeable, even when they came in a turn. The Porsche's PDK automatic had seven speeds and two clutches—in theory, a setup even better than the Jag's, though we were hard-pressed to nail down which we preferred.
So how much? The Boxster S lists for $61,850; the F-Type S, $20,000 more. But wait! Here it says that our particular Porsche, as tested, goes for $101,070. One minute we had a bargain, the next, a car nearly $20,000 more expensive than a base 911. What does that 40 large buy you? That tranny: $3200. Carbon-ceramic brakes: $7400. And so on.
The rules of this test mandate that we pick a winner, but the more we got to know the cars, the more different they became. Not just in layout, but in scope: The Porsche is a much-developed machine in its third generation, honed over years into one of the best sports cars ever built. The Jaguar is an excellent first shot and great in its own right, but it doesn't benefit from the same momentum.
Heather McGrath
In the end, we found ourselves searching for that one special feature that would tip the scales—and found it, sitting in the bright sun, in pit lane. The Jag, in all its magisterial whiteness. And where was the Boxster? Why, out on the track, tearing around, a true driver's car, one that makes you want to do another lap, and another after that, and then take the long way home.
Into the woods with two hot roadsters.
By Sam Posey June 20, 2013 / Photos by Heather McGrath
SLIDESHOW: 2014 JAGUAR F-TYPE VS. 2013 PORSCHE BOXSTER
Northwestern Connecticut comes with grazing cows, Colonial architecture, and stately oaks—a bucolic setting that invites you to drive, top down, along the many lovely back roads. But we didn't head there to soak up the scenery. We went to see how Jaguar's return to the roadster arena compares with the niche's all-star in a shootout that was referred to around the office as the Battle of the Berkshires. Porsche's Boxster S versus Jaguar's stunning F-Type S: Scoring would be in 10 categories, with up to five points awarded in each.
Both have blue-blood racing heritage. Jaguar has won Le Mans seven times; Porsche, a record 16. Beyond that, our two cars have little in common, starting with the way they look. The F-Type has a mammoth, air-gulping "mouth" intended to suggest great power; instead, it suggests Aston Martin's similar visual effect, which was designed by the same man. No matter. It's a classic shape, and it blends beautifully with the headlight assembly. The back has a narrow band of taillights that accentuates the Jag's width and contributes to its firm stance. The looks make a strong first impression, and the subtleties of the car's styling reward further inspection—for example, door handles that open with the push of a button and retract like airplane wheels when the car moves off.
The F-Type uses styling cues intended to give it a romantic flair, while the Boxster's look is self-referential, its proportions dictated by its mid-engine layout. No illusions here; what you see is what you get. The great architect Louis Kahn advocated using materials in the way that best suited them, and he would have been delighted with how each of the Boxster's components seemingly knew exactly where it should go. (One exception: the little spoiler at the back, a fussy feature that detracts from the total effect.)
In the cockpit, both cars score high marks with seats that provide excellent support and are infinitely adjustable. As for elegance, there's a profligate use of hand-stitched leather. The Jag features a large, rather strange handle that helps the passenger get settled. The car really envelops you, its beltline somewhere around your chin, hood looming large, along with vents that rise from the dash like surveillance cameras when the ignition is switched on. The Porsche is more relaxed, easier to get into and to see out of. You feel at home immediately.
Heather McGrath
The couple of seconds between pushing a car's start button (or turning its key) and an engine settling into an idle has become a creative opportunity up there with nuancing the sound and feel of a door slam. Here, the Boxster offers nothing special, while the engineers at Jag have the F-Type emitting a joyous blast, its tach surging toward the redline. The loud bark that follows ruins any hope of a stealthy getaway.
We took the cars out into a world of green—the glowing hills of a Northeast summer—driving fast along narrow, winding roads with names like White Hollow and Salmon Kill. Suspension? The Boxster has struts all around, the Jag a control-arm setup, and both cars flirt with the line between sporty and just plain too stiff. Steering? The Jaguar's feels faster, maybe a touch too fast, but both cars have just the right amount of power assist. And the steering wheels on both cars have thick, Formula 1-style rims. Each accelerator gives just the right travel and resistance. The Boxster was well-planted, covering ground with a relaxed gait, a car that inspired confidence. The Jag flowed as easily along the same roads, its engine responsive to the lightest touch, its exhaust a satisfying bellow, with much popping and crackling as the car coasted. All these sounds were electronic creations, but who cares? We had a sunny day, two fine cars, and a date with Lime Rock Park's 1.5 miles of asphalt. So far, the Boxster and the F-Type had scored pretty evenly, with the edge going to the Porsche. It's more sure-footed, a little less bouncy than the Jag, although we're splitting hairs. As we pulled onto Lime Rock's sinewy asphalt, we wondered: Would lapping a track even things out?
This was the time for these cars' racing heritage, the pur-sang stuff, to show itself. On paper, it was a classic confrontation between horsepower and handling. The Jag's edge was its supercharged 3.0-liter V6, delivering a stout 380 hp, while the Porsche's advantage came from its mid-engine layout and rear-biased, 46/54 weight distribution. Not that the 315-hp Boxster was exactly underpowered. The two cars' 0-to-60 times were almost the same, in the low four-second bracket, the Jag a staggering 684 pounds heavier but also more powerful.
The pleasant surprise was the Jaguar's handling. It understeered, but far less than expected. Nonetheless, as lap times came in, the Porsche's superiority was conclusive and absolute. It could go deeper into the turns, the brake pedal alive under your foot, telling you exactly what was going on. The Jag could go almost as deep, but without the feel for the limit. The Porsche oversteered usefully, which is to say you could get the tail out and steer with the throttle, making it more agile in the turns.
Heather McGrath
Both cars offered an array of handling options, from letting the car virtually drive itself to having no electronic interference at all. We preferred the latter, but regardless of setting, the Boxster just ran off into the distance. It turned 1:02s in the hands of your rapid Editor-in-Chief Larry Webster, while the best he could do in the Jag was more than two seconds slower. (Keep in mind that slow is a relative term. By Lime Rock standards, these cars were blisteringly fast—at least a second under what the railbirds predicted.)
The most progressive component of either car was its transmission. The F-Type's eight-speed ZF automatic is a magnificent piece of engineering, one of the best transmissions in the business. At Lime Rock, it used second through sixth, snapping off shifts with none of the laziness common to torque converters, and the shifts were so smooth and telepathic that they were barely noticeable, even when they came in a turn. The Porsche's PDK automatic had seven speeds and two clutches—in theory, a setup even better than the Jag's, though we were hard-pressed to nail down which we preferred.
So how much? The Boxster S lists for $61,850; the F-Type S, $20,000 more. But wait! Here it says that our particular Porsche, as tested, goes for $101,070. One minute we had a bargain, the next, a car nearly $20,000 more expensive than a base 911. What does that 40 large buy you? That tranny: $3200. Carbon-ceramic brakes: $7400. And so on.
The rules of this test mandate that we pick a winner, but the more we got to know the cars, the more different they became. Not just in layout, but in scope: The Porsche is a much-developed machine in its third generation, honed over years into one of the best sports cars ever built. The Jaguar is an excellent first shot and great in its own right, but it doesn't benefit from the same momentum.
Heather McGrath
In the end, we found ourselves searching for that one special feature that would tip the scales—and found it, sitting in the bright sun, in pit lane. The Jag, in all its magisterial whiteness. And where was the Boxster? Why, out on the track, tearing around, a true driver's car, one that makes you want to do another lap, and another after that, and then take the long way home.
07-01-2013, 03:51 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
07-01-2013, 04:06 PM
#19
Race Director
The information was more about the PDK vs 8 speed torque convertor automatic..
It was interesting that the theoretical advantages of PDK were not realized by road and track
And the new torque convertor automatic is equal to the PDK..
GM has been touting the torque convertor automatic is superior in its testing of the two designs...
Don't shoot the messenger....this jaguar f type vs Boxster S type test is being brought to this thread to show independent tests showing tq convertor automatic equaling the dual clutch...
Gm will not produce a dual clutch for corvette for some time if this test results prove out in other testing.
It was interesting that the theoretical advantages of PDK were not realized by road and track
And the new torque convertor automatic is equal to the PDK..
GM has been touting the torque convertor automatic is superior in its testing of the two designs...
Don't shoot the messenger....this jaguar f type vs Boxster S type test is being brought to this thread to show independent tests showing tq convertor automatic equaling the dual clutch...
Gm will not produce a dual clutch for corvette for some time if this test results prove out in other testing.
07-01-2013, 04:19 PM
#20
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: Mechanicsburg Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,535
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The information was more about the PDK vs 8 speed torque convertor automatic..
It was interesting that the theoretical advantages of PDK were not realized by road and track
And the new torque convertor automatic is equal to the PDK..
GM has been touting the torque convertor automatic is superior in its testing of the two designs...
Don't shoot the messenger....this jaguar f type vs Boxster S type test is being brought to this thread to show independent tests showing tq convertor automatic equaling the dual clutch...
Gm will not produce a dual clutch for corvette for some time if this test results prove out in other testing.
It was interesting that the theoretical advantages of PDK were not realized by road and track
And the new torque convertor automatic is equal to the PDK..
GM has been touting the torque convertor automatic is superior in its testing of the two designs...
Don't shoot the messenger....this jaguar f type vs Boxster S type test is being brought to this thread to show independent tests showing tq convertor automatic equaling the dual clutch...
Gm will not produce a dual clutch for corvette for some time if this test results prove out in other testing.
Thanks for the clarification and expanded explanation - I missed the point initially. I respectfully withdraw my initial reaction . . .
