Historical perspective on the NCM Delivery cost
08-12-2013, 10:32 PM
#21
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
So ...... to summarize:
Those who have never done it, think it's a waste of money.
Those who have done it, think it's worth it.
And, the price increase is Obama's fault.
Those who have never done it, think it's a waste of money.
Those who have done it, think it's worth it.
And, the price increase is Obama's fault.
08-12-2013, 10:37 PM
#22
Safety Car
Here's a possibility:
The $500 increase for the C7 NCM delivery might be to cover extra hours of labor by NCM employees. It's going to take several hours more per car to instruct all the older Corvette buyers how to operate all the new electronic functions of the C7.
They probably won't be able to schedule as many deliveries per day....
.
The $500 increase for the C7 NCM delivery might be to cover extra hours of labor by NCM employees. It's going to take several hours more per car to instruct all the older Corvette buyers how to operate all the new electronic functions of the C7.
They probably won't be able to schedule as many deliveries per day....
.
Last edited by ZL-1; 08-12-2013 at 10:41 PM.
08-12-2013, 11:23 PM
#23
Race Director
With all that the museum contributes to the Corvette experience, I find it odd that G.M. finds a need to take any portion of the R8C revenues. Yeah, yeah, I know - there's no way they'd offer it without taking a cut but why not just make it enough to cover the cost of administration and give the lion's share to the museum? It just seems like the right thing to do IMO.
08-13-2013, 03:44 AM
#24
Safety Car
Sorry, but anyone who wants the Museaum Delivery experience, but backs out over the $500 price increase, while still rationalizing the purchase of a $60-70K vette, is in my opinion cheap. You'll get a lot more value and satisfaction from Museum delivery than something like visible carbon fiber or colorful calipers.
08-13-2013, 06:47 AM
#25
Racer
The Museum delivery includes a customized dash plaque with your name and the VIN. If you aren't doing Museum delivery but want a personalized dash plaque, option BV4 is $200. Perhaps the included plaque is $200 of the $990?
08-13-2013, 07:22 AM
#26
Race Director
I think Dave is only counting profit at a heavily discounted R8C option sale. Dealer keeps the difference between the invoice and MSRP price levels for R8C just like any other option if he sells it for MSRP.
Last edited by GOLD72; 08-13-2013 at 07:25 AM.
08-13-2013, 07:24 AM
#27
Race Director
With all that the museum contributes to the Corvette experience, I find it odd that G.M. finds a need to take any portion of the R8C revenues. Yeah, yeah, I know - there's no way they'd offer it without taking a cut but why not just make it enough to cover the cost of administration and give the lion's share to the museum? It just seems like the right thing to do IMO.
I would feel a lot better about the price increase if the museum was getting the vast majority of the $990 sale price for the option.
08-13-2013, 11:52 AM
#28
Le Mans Master
The real enthusiasts will still do it, both to help the museum, as well as to experience receiving the car in the best manner possible. If 500.00 changes everything for you, then you were just a bargain hunter in enthusiast clothing. The real Corvette guys out there wont let 500.00 sway them one little bit.
08-13-2013, 01:23 PM
#29
Instructor
This is just me........ but I don't pick up a new car in the rain. Yea it could rain at the plant, on the transport........ but when I go to the dealer and drive it away I want a dry day.
Now it can snow or rain the next time I drive it but that initial drive........ I want it nice.
Now it can snow or rain the next time I drive it but that initial drive........ I want it nice.
I then started heading home about 15 min after the rain finished. I stopped at my first red traffic light a mile south of the dealer and got rear-ended by a kid in a Ford Econoline work van. Got my not-so-new car back from the bodyshop two weeks later.
With my luck I'll get my museum delivery in December in the middle of an early snow storm.
08-13-2013, 01:49 PM
#30
Melting Slicks
I also would have hoped more $ would go to the museum itself and agree the increased price may in the long run hurt the number of museum deliveries. The uncertainty of weather made my decision for me. My '97 came in mid-March and my '05 in early December-neither of which are particularly good times to be driving back to MN. Both cars were ordered as early deliveries but with constraints, etc. that's where they fell when actually built. I did not care to deal with it on the C7. In addition to weather, I am still a bit uneasy about taking a new technology vehicle heading North for 800+ miles and hoping there are no electronic glitches that show up rendering the car unoperable with no nearby help to repair it. If there is a failure once I'm home I can deal with that better than on the road, especially if any fix requires waiting for parts or a qualified tech.
08-13-2013, 02:03 PM
#31
Platinum Supporting Dealership
08-13-2013, 02:52 PM
#32
08-13-2013, 03:10 PM
#33
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: Mechanicsburg Pennsylvania
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Respectfully those who say $1,000 for Museum Delivery and possibly another $1,000 in airfare, hotel , meals, tools, fuel, etc is too high a fare to pay, are not cheap or non-enthusiast bargain hunters as some are writing. That is a patently unfair characterization and certainly not in the spirit of Corvette brotherhood.
Some buyers must think long and hard about their ability to afford $2,000 options - which is essentially what MD is - only without any resale value. Just because some can easily afford it, is no reason to question the enthusiast level of others who perhaps can not. And to be cheap is -"not worthy of respect; vulgar, ashamed; embarrassed to feel cheap stingy, miserly" - a disrespectful title these buyers of C7's do not deserve.
At it's previous price, half of the current asking, museum delivery was only selected by some 2% to 3% of the total buyers. It is pretty bold and disrespectful to call 98% of new Corvette buyers cheap, bargain hunters and not real enthusiasts.
Some buyers must think long and hard about their ability to afford $2,000 options - which is essentially what MD is - only without any resale value. Just because some can easily afford it, is no reason to question the enthusiast level of others who perhaps can not. And to be cheap is -"not worthy of respect; vulgar, ashamed; embarrassed to feel cheap stingy, miserly" - a disrespectful title these buyers of C7's do not deserve.
At it's previous price, half of the current asking, museum delivery was only selected by some 2% to 3% of the total buyers. It is pretty bold and disrespectful to call 98% of new Corvette buyers cheap, bargain hunters and not real enthusiasts.
Last edited by michaelinmech; 08-13-2013 at 03:17 PM.
08-13-2013, 03:16 PM
#34
Instructor
The price has been $490 for a long, long time. A price increase relative to inflation is 'fair' in my opinion. Let's use the $702 CPI-based number that Zymurgy posted.
They've promised to increase the 'value' of the R8C experience, at a minimum the personal tour vs. group tour should have some value to most of us. I'd pay $30 bucks for a personal tour of the plant.
Call the plaque a $200 value. We can debate that, I wouldn't order it myself, but compared to the pricing on other optional parts that don't require personalization it doesn't feel outrageous.
that gets us to the $930 ballpark. $1000 price seem relatively close to the historical precedent, all-in.
But I do agree with the commentary that $1K is expensive and will reduce R8C penetration in the longer run. I wouldn't be shocked to see it come down slightly after we work through the first year of true fan pre-orders. More likely it just hangs at $1K for the next decade.
R8C has always been a 'loyal fan' tax - I'm surprised that no one on the thread has raised the "How can be a $1K and you still are going to charge me another $1K the destination and delivery charges, even though I'm picking it up from the plant?" argument...
08-13-2013, 04:04 PM
#35
Melting Slicks
Agreed. So in summary:
The price has been $490 for a long, long time. A price increase relative to inflation is 'fair' in my opinion. Let's use the $702 CPI-based number that Zymurgy posted.
They've promised to increase the 'value' of the R8C experience, at a minimum the personal tour vs. group tour should have some value to most of us. I'd pay $30 bucks for a personal tour of the plant.
Call the plaque a $200 value. We can debate that, I wouldn't order it myself, but compared to the pricing on other optional parts that don't require personalization it doesn't feel outrageous.
that gets us to the $930 ballpark. $1000 price seem relatively close to the historical precedent, all-in.
But I do agree with the commentary that $1K is expensive and will reduce R8C penetration in the longer run. I wouldn't be shocked to see it come down slightly after we work through the first year of true fan pre-orders. More likely it just hangs at $1K for the next decade.
R8C has always been a 'loyal fan' tax - I'm surprised that no one on the thread has raised the "How can be a $1K and you still are going to charge me another $1K the destination and delivery charges, even though I'm picking it up from the plant?" argument...
The price has been $490 for a long, long time. A price increase relative to inflation is 'fair' in my opinion. Let's use the $702 CPI-based number that Zymurgy posted.
They've promised to increase the 'value' of the R8C experience, at a minimum the personal tour vs. group tour should have some value to most of us. I'd pay $30 bucks for a personal tour of the plant.
Call the plaque a $200 value. We can debate that, I wouldn't order it myself, but compared to the pricing on other optional parts that don't require personalization it doesn't feel outrageous.
that gets us to the $930 ballpark. $1000 price seem relatively close to the historical precedent, all-in.
But I do agree with the commentary that $1K is expensive and will reduce R8C penetration in the longer run. I wouldn't be shocked to see it come down slightly after we work through the first year of true fan pre-orders. More likely it just hangs at $1K for the next decade.
R8C has always been a 'loyal fan' tax - I'm surprised that no one on the thread has raised the "How can be a $1K and you still are going to charge me another $1K the destination and delivery charges, even though I'm picking it up from the plant?" argument...
As I'm sure you know already we can thank the unions for that one. Once a savior for the working man (a long time ago), now the biggest reason why more jobs are leaving the US and going overseas. A lot of businesses just can't afford to pay high union salaries and benefits for non skilled labor. We Americans have been spoiled rotten and think we are owed and deserve a middle class living even if we have no special skills or education.
08-13-2013, 04:17 PM
#36
Safety Car
The #1 reason fuel has increased so much in the last 5 years, is because of THIS US government,
not foreign entities or oil companies.
From day one Obama & the Democrats decided to charge consumers hundreds of billions more
than what it cost before Obama, for oil companies to refine gasoline. They did this thru both laws passed & backdoor orders adding regulations, increasing taxes, etc - all of which make drivers pay more for gasoline.
An even more dubius example of this anti-consumer $green$ numbskull thinking, is the huge RIN scandal.
What is that Obama scandal you ask?
The predictable result of an out of control EPA forcing mandates on oil companies to
buy X-number of gallons of ethanol each year.....even though they are still limited by law,
to not using more than 10% ethanol in each gallon of fuel.
So now because of 5 years of Obama euro-style economic policy slowing progress, and
more costly but more fuel efficient new vehicles, guess what happened to ethanol prices?
There's now a huge surplus.....but instead of ethanol prices coming down like they
normally would in a market free of gov-control, because the Obama EPA has kept the
same ethanol mandates in place, the price of RIN credits, which is what oil companies
must buy to fulfill their alternative energy mandates, has shot up more than 1000% since Jan13
.....and yes, you the consumer are also paying for that $green$ robbery program too.
And none of what I said includes the extra cost of putting 10% ethanol in gasoline in the first place,
which probably adds 10-15 cents per gallon.
not foreign entities or oil companies.
From day one Obama & the Democrats decided to charge consumers hundreds of billions more
than what it cost before Obama, for oil companies to refine gasoline. They did this thru both laws passed & backdoor orders adding regulations, increasing taxes, etc - all of which make drivers pay more for gasoline.
An even more dubius example of this anti-consumer $green$ numbskull thinking, is the huge RIN scandal.
What is that Obama scandal you ask?
The predictable result of an out of control EPA forcing mandates on oil companies to
buy X-number of gallons of ethanol each year.....even though they are still limited by law,
to not using more than 10% ethanol in each gallon of fuel.
So now because of 5 years of Obama euro-style economic policy slowing progress, and
more costly but more fuel efficient new vehicles, guess what happened to ethanol prices?
There's now a huge surplus.....but instead of ethanol prices coming down like they
normally would in a market free of gov-control, because the Obama EPA has kept the
same ethanol mandates in place, the price of RIN credits, which is what oil companies
must buy to fulfill their alternative energy mandates, has shot up more than 1000% since Jan13
.....and yes, you the consumer are also paying for that $green$ robbery program too.
And none of what I said includes the extra cost of putting 10% ethanol in gasoline in the first place,
which probably adds 10-15 cents per gallon.
08-13-2013, 04:20 PM
#37
Instructor
As I'm sure you know already we can thank the unions for that one. Once a savior for the working man (a long time ago), now the biggest reason why more jobs are leaving the US and going overseas. A lot of businesses just can't afford to pay high union salaries and benefits for non skilled labor. We Americans have been spoiled rotten and think we are owed and deserve a middle class living even if we have no special skills or education.
But it seems a little hard to blame them for the destination charge nonsense. That feels like more of a sop to the car dealer franchise model. Watch the dealers squirm to fight Tesla's efforts to sell direct.
08-13-2013, 04:42 PM
#38
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: Mechanicsburg Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,535
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Received 14 Likes
on
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As I'm sure you know already we can thank the unions for that one. Once a savior for the working man (a long time ago), now the biggest reason why more jobs are leaving the US and going overseas. A lot of businesses just can't afford to pay high union salaries and benefits for non skilled labor. We Americans have been spoiled rotten and think we are owed and deserve a middle class living even if we have no special skills or education.
^ Nope - not accurate.
The transportation charge is simply and precisely so that no dealer has a cost advantage over another because it's less expensive to ship near than far. If dealers in Oregon and Washington states or the New England states had to pay transportation costs for actual distance, think of the cost disadvantage they would be at compared to dealers in Kentucky and Tennessee. To remedy that situation the cost of transportation is divided equally among all dealers, whether the car is going 1 mile or thousands. Every car in invoiced at the same transportation cost.
08-13-2013, 06:01 PM
#39
Platinum Supporting Dealership
I'm all down for bashing the unions, especially while watching them choke the Philadelphia Convention Center to death.
But it seems a little hard to blame them for the destination charge nonsense. That feels like more of a sop to the car dealer franchise model. Watch the dealers squirm to fight Tesla's efforts to sell direct.
But it seems a little hard to blame them for the destination charge nonsense. That feels like more of a sop to the car dealer franchise model. Watch the dealers squirm to fight Tesla's efforts to sell direct.
As I'm sure you know already we can thank the unions for that one. Once a savior for the working man (a long time ago), now the biggest reason why more jobs are leaving the US and going overseas. A lot of businesses just can't afford to pay high union salaries and benefits for non skilled labor. We Americans have been spoiled rotten and think we are owed and deserve a middle class living even if we have no special skills or education.
There's actually no mark up in the destination fee.For this you can thank the Federal Government. I think it was in the 1970s that the Federal Government ruled that every car of a specific model must have the same destination fee. That way a dealer in KY wouldn't get his Corvette's for less than my in NJ and I wouldn't get it for less than a dealer in WA.
It's actually not a bad idea, but it left no loop holes for a situation like this.
Dave
08-13-2013, 06:43 PM
#40
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
This discussion about the destination charge goes on and on. Every car sold in the U. S. has a destination charge - it's part of the cost of the car, like tires, seats, etc. Yet, it's listed as a mandatory option. The reason is so the car can be listed at a lower price in ads - $51,000 (plus destination charge). It's a scam that's been going on for years. Whoever makes the rules for this sort of thing did it to help carmakers sell more cars. The destination charge should be included in the price, like advertising, workers pay, paperwork, etc. All it does is confuse customers - is the price $51,000 or $51,995? 