Automatic Transmission Overheating
Racer
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 482
Likes: 4
The thing is that even with the 911 there are many reports of heatsoak, or overheating after 2-3 laps on the track. This is real.. but only currently being publicized concerning the new Z06 because haters must find something to discredit the car with. btw.. the 911 has been known to overheat and some have reported even on the German tinged sites http://rennlist.com/forums/991/76531...-on-track.html .. of course if U talk to a Porsche track driver he will most likely tell U that he does his 2-3 laps.. notices the car overheating.. does a few cool off laps and gets back to the do.. Sound familiar???
The thing is that I find is that when tracking a car in 80 degrees and up.. I will usually pull off after lap 3 anyway as I am not gonna run the A/C.. or windows down due to drag.. so I'm gonna be overheating my own body at that point.. especially with an effin helmet on.
The thing is that I find is that when tracking a car in 80 degrees and up.. I will usually pull off after lap 3 anyway as I am not gonna run the A/C.. or windows down due to drag.. so I'm gonna be overheating my own body at that point.. especially with an effin helmet on.
My experiance is with 911 997 TT. Will not overheat and a simple tune gives you 600+ HP. The two should not be compared. Besides you would have to drive both to compare which I dont beleive many here have. Not to mention being familiar with the Mezger engine and its transmission.
Last edited by Dan12; Feb 26, 2015 at 01:54 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,574
Likes: 615
From: Springfield TN
The thing is that even with the 911 there are many reports of heatsoak, or overheating after 2-3 laps on the track. This is real.. but only currently being publicized concerning the new Z06 because haters must find something to discredit the car with. btw.. the 911 has been known to overheat and some have reported even on the German tinged sites http://rennlist.com/forums/991/76531...-on-track.html .. of course if U talk to a Porsche track driver he will most likely tell U that he does his 2-3 laps.. notices the car overheating.. does a few cool off laps and gets back to the do.. Sound familiar???
The thing is that I find is that when tracking a car in 80 degrees and up.. I will usually pull off after lap 3 anyway as I am not gonna run the A/C.. or windows down due to drag.. so I'm gonna be overheating my own body at that point.. especially with an effin helmet on.
The thing is that I find is that when tracking a car in 80 degrees and up.. I will usually pull off after lap 3 anyway as I am not gonna run the A/C.. or windows down due to drag.. so I'm gonna be overheating my own body at that point.. especially with an effin helmet on.
But, we are discussing a Z07-optioned Z06 and a GT3, both being the supposed "track-ready" cars in the Corvette and 911 lines, and the GT3 is pretty much ready out of the box--just add fluids, alignment, and harnesses.
Also, if you have read my multiple posts, I have no problem with Chevy raising the price. Speed costs money--how fast do you want to go? Price is just not an excuse here for the specially optioned, track-oriented Z06/Z07. The difference between 100K and, say, 120K or more, is almost academic, really. These are expensive toys and we are talking about building a car for the (relatively) few Corvette track enthusiasts (I say "relatively" based upon my unscientific view of comments on this forum), who are surely outnumbered by those who use their Corvette differently.
Chevy has made a nice name for themselves with Corvette Racing--it is time for Chevy to build the dual purpose car worthy of the racing successes and worthy of the many of us who support Corvette Racing.
Last edited by quick04Z06; Feb 26, 2015 at 01:33 PM.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 573
Likes: 91
From: Carlsbad, CA
M7 Trans overheating
The OP sounds like a Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) guy. Yes, it is an awesome engineering achievement. And yes, a machine is faster than a human (shifting).
Chief Corvette engineer Tadge told us: the A8 selects "the lowest possible gear ratio for best acceleration, and because it has 8 closely-spaced ratios typically runs higher average RPM than the manual. This ...taxes the engine oil and coolant more... So the automatic has the capability to run faster laps than the manual, but thermal limitations are reached more quickly."
Also, I'm not sure the fast automatics (Porsche) are really faster when you take all performance factors into consideration. They shift quicker because they are not human, with higher revs, causing greater heat generation, which will slow you down sooner or later (or not). GT-40's are track-fast in Europe, frequently beating the Porsche's, and they are manuals.
For those of you who track the Z51 manual 7, are you having overheating problems after 12 or 20 minutes?
Chief Corvette engineer Tadge told us: the A8 selects "the lowest possible gear ratio for best acceleration, and because it has 8 closely-spaced ratios typically runs higher average RPM than the manual. This ...taxes the engine oil and coolant more... So the automatic has the capability to run faster laps than the manual, but thermal limitations are reached more quickly."
Also, I'm not sure the fast automatics (Porsche) are really faster when you take all performance factors into consideration. They shift quicker because they are not human, with higher revs, causing greater heat generation, which will slow you down sooner or later (or not). GT-40's are track-fast in Europe, frequently beating the Porsche's, and they are manuals.
For those of you who track the Z51 manual 7, are you having overheating problems after 12 or 20 minutes?
So let's see, you're an autocross instructor and you won't consider a C7 because of possible auto trans overheating? If you're into racing that seriously why would you even consider an auto trans at all? Buy a manual trans C7 if you're into racing and don't worry about it.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 17
From: Maryland
Indeed, many 911s probably are not track-ready out of the box, no question. My Cayman S had its issues on track (and no oil temp gauge--silly).
But, we are discussing a Z07-optioned Z06 and a GT3, both being the supposed "track-ready" cars in the Corvette and 911 lines, and the GT3 is pretty much ready out of the box--just add fluids, alignment, and harnesses.
Also, if you have read my multiple posts, I have no problem with Chevy raising the price. Speed costs money--how fast do you want to go? Price is just not an excuse here for the specially optioned, track-oriented Z06/Z07. The difference between 100K and, say, 120K or more, is almost academic, really. These are expensive toys and we are talking about building a car for the (relatively) few Corvette track enthusiasts (I say "relatively" based upon my unscientific view of comments on this forum), who are surely outnumbered by those who use their Corvette differently.
Chevy has made a nice name for themselves with Corvette Racing--it is time for Chevy to build the dual purpose car worthy of the racing successes and worthy of the many of us who support Corvette Racing.
But, we are discussing a Z07-optioned Z06 and a GT3, both being the supposed "track-ready" cars in the Corvette and 911 lines, and the GT3 is pretty much ready out of the box--just add fluids, alignment, and harnesses.
Also, if you have read my multiple posts, I have no problem with Chevy raising the price. Speed costs money--how fast do you want to go? Price is just not an excuse here for the specially optioned, track-oriented Z06/Z07. The difference between 100K and, say, 120K or more, is almost academic, really. These are expensive toys and we are talking about building a car for the (relatively) few Corvette track enthusiasts (I say "relatively" based upon my unscientific view of comments on this forum), who are surely outnumbered by those who use their Corvette differently.
Chevy has made a nice name for themselves with Corvette Racing--it is time for Chevy to build the dual purpose car worthy of the racing successes and worthy of the many of us who support Corvette Racing.
I have no issue with them raising the price either, but then that would go against the philosophy that they have tried to maintain for the past 60 years. As it stands we are comparing a $150K GT3 to a $75K Z06.. if the minority of owners of these Z06s who actually gonna be more than a 1-2 times a years racer want to race the car ballz out on a track.. then I say let them void their warranty and make the necessary mods to due 20 laps without exiting. Or even better is that GM make an optional dealer-installed track pack that works around the mandated caveats that is holding the car back. etc.
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 99
Likes: 1
Very few autos at SM. They expect a bunch of A8s in soon as students are requesting them. Instructors drove some A8s when GM brought some in. Said running A8 in Drive will overheat transmission because A8 gets real busy on a track. They suggest using Manual mode.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 250
While I enjoy my C7 z51 A 8, Tadge & GM should have taken a closer look at heat management. Wasn't plannng on tracking mine (convertible) but it's disappointing nonetheless. Not bashing GM nor am I a factory apologist.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,786
Likes: 1
From: Houston TX
I have competed in many SCCA auto crosses and did very little shifting. Courses were short and very tight. The car I drove was a manual C5 but the point is, it was faster to lug the car a bit than shift and also keeping the car in the low rev range helping reduce tire spinning.
Drifting
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,274
Likes: 75
From: Fairfield County, CT
A GT3 can, and the Z07 package Z06 has surely been touted in much the same manner by Chevrolet.
Look, you can mod almost anything into being a solid track car--it's only money. Anyone who has tracked a car knows this--me included, as I "built" my 04 Silver Z into such a car.
But, when Chevy put CCBs, track-tuned aero, perf data recorder, all-but-slick tires, extra coolers for oil, diff and tranny, and an option for "competition" seats, on this C7Z06/Z07, I do not think it is unreasonable to assume the car will hold up for 30 minute DE sessions with an decent amateur driver with nothing more than some fluid changes and harnesses.
Look, you can mod almost anything into being a solid track car--it's only money. Anyone who has tracked a car knows this--me included, as I "built" my 04 Silver Z into such a car.
But, when Chevy put CCBs, track-tuned aero, perf data recorder, all-but-slick tires, extra coolers for oil, diff and tranny, and an option for "competition" seats, on this C7Z06/Z07, I do not think it is unreasonable to assume the car will hold up for 30 minute DE sessions with an decent amateur driver with nothing more than some fluid changes and harnesses.
Be advised, I intend to pawn this off as my own and give you no credit whatsover. I am too lazy to do so just as I am too lazy to come up with a reply myself. Guilt occasionally overcomes my laziness so I may slip in "I read a post from another member on this and he said..." at the beginning but I wouldn't count on it.
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Racer
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 482
Likes: 4
Why not compare (unless the point being the C7 A8 cannot stand the heat)? My 01 996 twin turbo is a 14 year old car now, had a 5 speed tiptronic which is a torque converter automatic. 415 hp 415 torque from a 3.6 liter flat six dry sump motor. 14 years later and GM fails to engineer sufficient cooling capacity in their A8 cars, is a shame and you're all too forgiving. I also tracked a 996 Carrera 4 and 986 S, all tiptronics and no overheating of trans or engine.
While I enjoy my C7 z51 A 8, Tadge & GM should have taken a closer look at heat management. Wasn't plannng on tracking mine (convertible) but it's disappointing nonetheless. Not bashing GM nor am I a factory apologist.
While I enjoy my C7 z51 A 8, Tadge & GM should have taken a closer look at heat management. Wasn't plannng on tracking mine (convertible) but it's disappointing nonetheless. Not bashing GM nor am I a factory apologist.
Keep in mind your 996 engine and transmission was born on a track.
I was close to going with a C7 but test drove a 997TT. I guess owning both would be great but I went with the TT in the end.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,574
Likes: 615
From: Springfield TN
William - can I plagiarize this? Specifically, I'd like to use the last paragraph as my response to those that struggle with/question our disappointment that GM appears to have not done a better job with cooling the C7 and the new Z06 for 20 - 25 minute HPDE sessions. In preparation for deciding my next dual purpose car, I've read many of the posts on the topic and I sense some seem to missing, what to me, seems all too obvious.
Be advised, I intend to pawn this off as my own and give you no credit whatsover. I am too lazy to do so just as I am too lazy to come up with a reply myself. Guilt occasionally overcomes my laziness so I may slip in "I read a post from another member on this and he said..." at the beginning but I wouldn't count on it.
Be advised, I intend to pawn this off as my own and give you no credit whatsover. I am too lazy to do so just as I am too lazy to come up with a reply myself. Guilt occasionally overcomes my laziness so I may slip in "I read a post from another member on this and he said..." at the beginning but I wouldn't count on it.
LOL.I re-read some of my posts and I hope I am not being too hard on this car. It surely is an awesome sports car. I just re-iterate that when Chevy touts the c7Z06/Z07 as the most "track capable Corvette ever", I assumed we'd get the cooling, braking, seating, etc., that suggests. Chevy has gotten close, it seems, but maybe not as close as I had hoped. Summer temps will tell the tale.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 501
Likes: 64
From: Columbia MD
"OP has been proven right. Even Tadge suggests the A8 will overheat on track, if you read the "Ask Tadge" subforum on this issue...."
I don't know if the OP is correct or not but you're misinterpreting Tadge's statement. He does say "we have never put automatics on track for media and never encouraged people interested in track usage to buy automatics." But then follows it up quickly with "The new 8 speed automatic gives us a chance to put more automatic transmission customers on the track."
Basically he is saying the other autos in the past are not for the track. But this new auto is our opportunity to offer track time to A8 owners.
And if you are going to track it, paddle shift it.
Now, if the A8 has problems or not, that is a different story and we're all still researching that problem. But until then no definitive conclusions can be drawn.
I believe Porsche PDKs have overheating issues and will run hot after spirited runs too if I'm not mistaken.
I don't know if the OP is correct or not but you're misinterpreting Tadge's statement. He does say "we have never put automatics on track for media and never encouraged people interested in track usage to buy automatics." But then follows it up quickly with "The new 8 speed automatic gives us a chance to put more automatic transmission customers on the track."
Basically he is saying the other autos in the past are not for the track. But this new auto is our opportunity to offer track time to A8 owners.
And if you are going to track it, paddle shift it.
Now, if the A8 has problems or not, that is a different story and we're all still researching that problem. But until then no definitive conclusions can be drawn.
I believe Porsche PDKs have overheating issues and will run hot after spirited runs too if I'm not mistaken.
