The handheld navigation guys lose money on maps (they use the lifetime upgrade as a way to get you to buy)

Google also doesn't pay per device since it's all server based and they offset any losses with ads and selling your data. Google also does a fair amount of mapping in house.

Everything costs money, sometimes it's money you don't even know you are spending.

This is the issue I have nowadays, everyone wants things for free and no one thinks people should be paid for their services.

Ridiculous!

I should further add this is mostly a moot point, assuming you aren't traveling all over you probably should know where you are going day to day.

I think in the 10 years I've had access to navigation systems, I've used them 20-30 times, and mostly for giggles or real time traffic updates in multi hour trips (I pay for Sirius traffic on the nav).

I remember memorizing paper maps.

 

Exactly, I travel 7 states for work and have never missed an address because of outdated maps. If anything it is frustrating that the GM map in my '14 did not include updated town bypasses that were done years before.

 

I would say it's very rare that 123 Main St, Toad Suck, AR gets moved to another location, but the roads leading to it, do.

But, of course, if 321 Scott St, gets added to the town of Toad Suck, AR, during 2015, that address wouldn't show up on a 2009 map(if that is the last update you have in your GM NAV).

Since it's FREE, I can keep up with the latest map updates, along with the latest POI updates, every three months if I so desire. No money out of my pocket, especially since I paid less for my Garmin, than the Corvette owner pays for his annual update.

Funny how Garmin can sell me a 52LM for $99 and they apparently make money as does Walmart(who gets part of the $99), and not charge me a single penny each time I update my map/POI, yet some people think the GM has to charge me $1795(for my 2009 NAV) and then charge me $200 annually to have the latest map/POI update, to be able to make money.

I paid $1795 for my GM NAV in July 2008. If I have purchased a new CD annually from 2009 through 2013(last year the map/POI was updated for the obsolete C6 NAV), I would have spent some $1,000. Yet I purchased a Garmin for $99 and haven't spent a single dime for map/POI updates. And I can continue to purchase map/POI updates for my Garmin, where as I can't for the obsolete GM NAV in my 2009 Corvette.

I don't believe Garmin has lost $2696 during that same five years that I was getting FREE map/POI updates, on the $99 GPS they sold me.

But in all honesty, I do have to admit that I had to buy a 4 GB micro SD card for my Garmin last year, as the Garmin internal memory couldn't hold all the latest Map/POI increases during my FREE map/POI download. Damn, I had to spend $1.99 for that friggin' card(and none of that $1.99 went to Garmin to pay for the FREE map/POI updates).

Oh, and those paper road maps that I memorized in 1956, when I drove from Little Rock, AR to New York City; wouldn't do me any good today, even if I could remember them. As I exited the Lincoln tunnel(I think it was the Lincoln tunnel, but it's been a very long time since 1956 and my memory has been fading a little), entering NYC, I purchased a New York City map for $.50 from a guy selling them at an intersection. Later on, I noticed that the map I paid $.50 for, was marked FREE. I got took by a local that was getting the FREE maps from the city and was then selling them for $.50 to dumb tourists, like me. I'm guessing that that guy now works for GM, selling map/POI updates for $160 to C7 Corvette owners.

 

Automotive parts cost more than a chintzy hand held GPS. They have to survive automotive durability. Your Garmin wouldn't survive a walk in a blizzard.

They still make paper maps, BTW. Or you can just memorize Google. That's what I do.

So much crying over maps.

Garmin isn't making money on that GPS. GM however doesn't make money on the map updates (dealers do, and so do the map companies)

Google pisses away money like water.

 

I have three Garmins, paid under $100 for each of them. The oldest one is around ten- twelve years old. Not one single problem with them. I have four automobiles and, except for my Mercedes(17 years old) which has been 100% trouble free, they have not been trouble free. So much for automobile durability. LOL

Even if one of my Garmins took a fatal dump, I can replace it for $99 and not have to tear out my dash. Can you replace the oh-so-wonderful "durable" OEM NAV for under $100? NOPE!!!!!!!

If Garmin doesn't make money on the GPS and they include the updates for FREE, where does their profit come from; Obama???? I've never heard anything so stupid in my life. Garmin is not a not-for-profit company. They make a profit and they pay taxes on that profit. I take it that you failed math as you seem to believe that Garmin buys their units for a dime each and then sells them for 3 for 25 cents and makes a profit by selling them in volume. The more they sell at a loss of a nickel for every three sold, the more money they make. LOL

Oh, and money made off map updates for my GM NAV. I don't see how my local GM dealer could make a penny off of me selling me Map/POI CD's for my C6 as they could be purchased direct from http://www.gmnavdisc.com, and not required to be purchased through a dealer.

What has Google got to do with Garmin and their FREE maps? Oh and I do use Google Maps on my desktop and I don't pay them a cent, but not for when I'm doing a trip(use my Garmin then). Google must be making a profit, but not off me, but that's immaterial for this discussion.

 

Hands down Waze is the best and its FREE! The new version is very good and the speed trap interaction is the best.

 

I suspected you worked for an automobile manufacturer, or supplier. That explains the level of arrogance you display by telling lies about portable NAV systems such as the Garmin.

I am an engineer but I never worked for an automobile manufacturer but I did work for a company that supplied components to them, and had UAW representation for the hourly employees. I also purchased machine tools, etc from companies that also sold equipment to the Big Three.

I know about the arrogance that GM engineers displayed(Ford and Chrysler engineers were not nearly so bad).

We are not talking about a Titan II ICBM, we are talking about a consumer driven product, that sells millions of their products. and makes money doing it. Their quality is exceptional for the price at which they deliver their product to the retail customer.

Of course they sell millions of units in order to make money but so does GM. Do you think GM could build and sell a car for $15,000 if they only made 15,000 of them annually? Of course not, they have to sell in the millions to be able to. Same with Garmin, TomTom, etc. Same with a cell phone. Same with a #2 yellow pencil.

BTW, I'm very familiar with "rockets" and their quality and their durability. I was in the Air Force assigned to the 381St Strategic Missile Wing. Had a lot of different responsibilities, one being quality. I was one of only two in the Wing that could sign off a "Red X" and could open and then seal(as I was only one of two that had the seals and equipment and authorization) a "critial" component. I also inspected modifications made by Martin Marietta(Prime contractor on the Titan II)and signed off on them for the Air Force. I also reviewed requests for changes to tech data, etc. It was I that the Wing commander called in the middle of the night when the "superb" rocket quality failed and several Missiles were off launch status.

But, we are not talking "rocket science" here. The "fragile" Garmin as you like to BS about it, is engineered to meet the conditions it is required to likely encounter. Will it hold up in a Blizzard. I don't know, but if I'm ever in a blizzard, the Garmin will encounter the same car's interior conditions that my body will be exposed to. If, for some reason, the interior of my car reaches -30 degrees, they will find my dead body next to my dead "Garmin", as if that really matters. Will it really matter if the factory NAV is still "alive"? But, since I'm not as stupid as you think I am, I would never go out in a blizzard if I wasn't 99.9% positive that my car could maintain a reasonable level of warmth in the interior(for my body and my Garmin. LOL). But, since I'm not stupid, I would never get caught in a blizzard, as I live in southwest Missouri, and would never leave on a trip headed toward "blizzard" country, during winter. Even if I did leave my "fragile" Garmin at home and only had the "superior" factory NAV in my Z06, I would hole up in a motel until the troopers said it was safe to be back on the highway. How may people do you know of that have died in a blizzard because their Garmin failed?

Will the Garmin hold up during launch or while in low attitude orbit like the IGS has to in a ICBM? Who cares. That's not what it was designed/engineered to do, and I guarantee you, that I won't be aboard an ICBM with my Garmin, so I could give a rats *** as how it performs while sitting on top of an ICBM.

Oh, and speaking of the IGS, do you know who built it for the Titan II ICBM. AC SparkPlug division. It was not of the same quality as a AC Spark plug that was used in a 1963 Chevrolet. Gee, maybe that's why the IGS on top of a Titan II ICBM cost $150,000 in 1963 yet a spark plug in your Chevrolet only cost $.94 in 1963. They were designed/engineered for two different purposes, even if they were built by the same company. The $.94 spark plug worked fine for what it was designed/engineered for. No need to have a $150,000 sparkplug in a $3,000 1963 Chevrolet.

I know first hand of the quality of the multi million Titan II IBCM, and I also know first hand about the quality of a modern automobile(from the consumers view) and I know first hand about the quality of the three Garmins I own. They have been trouble free, so that says lot about their design/engineering. They perform to the expectations of the consumer, and at 1/8 the cost of the factory NAV in the C7. Plus they have a FREE lifetime map/POI update that has no less than the quality of the map/POI update that the GM sells for $160.


I guess that if I really wanted to know about the reliability of a GM product, I could ask a good friend who is the retired Manager of Reliability Engineering at GM. But, I doubt he could tell me anything I didn't have a pretty good guess about.

Would I buy a Garmin if it didn't have the Free maps. Of course I would, and I did(the first one I purchased). But, when I went to see about purchasing map updates for it, they wanted $39.95 for one year of updates, and $89.95 for a lifetime of free updates. Not being as stupid as you think I am, I purchased a new Garmin at Best Buy for $85(it was a 40LM) and it had FREE lifetime map updates. Gee, Garmin was willing to sell me a new GPS for less than I could buy a lifetime update for my old unit. It would be pretty stupid to pay $89.95 when I could buy a new unit for $85. Then when I wanted a newer, larger Garmin, for my Z06(which has the POS factory NAV) I purchased a 52LM from Walmart for $99,and it comes with....surprise, surprise....FREE lifetime map/POI updates. My other option...stay with the POS obsolete factory GM NAV and buy a 2013 issue CD update(?????) for $200(latest, and last, that is available). A real idiot would do that.

Yep, I have that terrible thought process that buys cheap throwaway cars, at least when I was younger, not now. I purchased a cheap throwaway car that I sold two years later for next to nothing. It was a brand new 1971 Chevrolet Vega, and it burned oil like you wouldn't believe in no time at all. Oh, wait, it was designed and engineered in America, and also built in America. I could have bought a cheap Chevrolet in 1999, but I decided to spend the extra coin and buy a new Mercedes(not made in America). The best car I've ever owned, and I purchased my first new car in 1964, a 1964 Chevelle Malibu SS, so I've been buying new cars for probably longer than you have been out of diapers. Even though I loved the 1998 C5 I had(with all it's "rocket science" electronics), I didn't love taking it to the dealer 14 times in the first 14,000 miles for repairs. Good thing I had the Mercedes as a back up car.

I am very curious as to your "superb" thought process that equates a "cheap" aftermarket GPS device to a "cheap" car that will kill me. OH, I think the Mercedes is one of the safest cars sold, even with a Garmin on board, and much safer than a Chevrolet with it's "rocket quality" NAV.

 

I don't plan to update any time soon, but when I do eventually in a couple of years, where do you find the old updates? I was under the impression they are tied to the individual car so I'd be a bit surprised if a third party could do an update.

 

If you people cannot discuss this topic like gentlemen I will simply close this thread and issue bans.


I've already issues Warnings based upon the personal attacks and childish behavior.


Either you behave like an adult or you'll get a Fall vacation.

 

One other thing. Despite what some people seem to think, generally speaking Google Maps does require an Internet connection to work. With the latest versions its possible to travel out of internet coverage and keep using it...but only if you pre-plan that and download the maps you need in advance. See http://www.boosharticles.com/2014/07...et-connection/

So, if you didn't know you would be traveling outside cell coverage then you wouldn't have pre-planned...so you would be out of luck. Weather or not thats a problem depends on how good your carrier's coverage is and where you want to go. If your driving is mostly or entirely inside your carrier's coverage you would never notice.

Thats why these endless flame wars on the subject are so useless. Either its an issue for you personally or it isn't. But everyone tends to assume that whatever works for them must work for everyone and whatever doesn't work for them doesn't work for everyone. We should all realize that what works for you is so heavily dependent on carriers, coverage, and where you want to go that one person's experience is often not relevant to anyone elses.

 

Actually no, the car nav does not need a cellphone connection to work just as any system from garmin doesn't need an Internet connection to work. The maps are stored locally on the car's storage and so are the points of interest. With Google maps, once I start navigation I'm usually alright till I reach my destination but if it's in a no coverage area, I'm screwed when I want to set my next Destination.

I do roadtrips into the mountains of Colorado and Washington and stretches of highway 1 and often lose cell coverage completely. If my navigation ended when I'm inside said mountainous area and I wanted to figure out how to get to the next one, the dash nav can still take an address or a stored point of interest and route me out whereas Google maps on my android phone won't search for a point of interest without a good enough data connection or without planning ahead and downloading small map sections one by one ahead of time.

 

Hey, I did some time in operations with the 308th SMW and later the 321st so I know where you are coming from I don't often run into anyone who knows what I'm talking about, even in the AF.

Anyway, does a Garmin work in a blizzard? Well, yes, it does. Take a look just above the handlebars in the attached picture. The model I'm using is a fairly old Nuvi 550. Its essentially just an automotive unit except water proof and with a much larger and removable/replaceable battery. I run it on battery mostly because the power output from the snowmobile seems to fluctuate too much for it - periodically making it think its hooked up to a computer, but with the larger battery, it will go 4 to 6 hours even in sub-zero temperatures (I've had it out as cold as -18F). Then I keep a spare battery warm inside my suit just in case.

PS: Yes, there are a couple different companies that sell snowmobile trail maps for Garmins (and other brands). This picture was taken near Ironwood MI in early Dec 2014.

 

[QUOTE=defaria;1590804043]I've never had a problem with Google Maps and lack of cell coverage. Navigation uses the GPS, not the cell service. BTW, what do you think the in dash system has that the cell phone doesn't? IOW if Google Maps on the cell phone needs a cell connection to operate then so does your car so either way you'd have a problem.If you're configuring a long route, especially one that's on secondary roads and not major highways, Google maps does not download all the maps necessary all at once. It only downloads the beginning of the route, and downloads the rest as you go. For a short, local route, this won't be a problem, but for a 1,000 mile trip through rural areas it could be. It's also a problem if you're trying to figure out how to get somewhere in a place where you have no data. Then it can't download even the beginning of the route. And as I explained the in-dash Nav doesn't have the same limitation.

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Check out "Here" maps. You can download maps for specific states (or the entire US) and other countries to the phone so you don't need a data connection. Worked a treat for me when I was in the boonies of West VA.

Android Auto will still be dependent on a data connection to download map segments as you go unless you have the foresight to download all the maps along your route ahead of time. And then don't decide to go somewhere else.

======================================== ==

On a side note, even Google's "always updated" maps don't always get you where you really want to go. I was in Texas last week, and twice Google Maps failed me. Once, trying to get to a historic mission, Maps told me I was at my destination in the middle of a sketchy neighborhood a couple of miles away from the right location. We had to look up the address of the site, and then put THAT into Google to get there. Another time, trying to get to a restaurant, Google told me I was there when the restaurant was nowhere it sight. Oddly enough, when I searched for the same location from that point, it took me to the right location. Maps and Waze have both failed me other times, too.

 

Thanks, I actually use Nokia's Here maps already but that's a good reminder for me to use the Android version more often. Back when they had a nice sale on a Lumia 520 + an Xbox/Groove Music Gift card for $99 together, I bought it, sold the GC again and kept the phone. Nokia's offline HERE maps came standard on Windows Phone back then and worked without the need for a data connection (back when there was no Android version out yet). So I used it plenty on vacation trips, $25 for a GPS+media device with regularly updated maps was a steal. I was only remarking above about those who relied on Google maps / Waze / any other online navigation tool as the end-all-be-all of navigation.

 

Depending on when you purchased the C7, you might be able to get the update for free. When I bought my wife's 2008 Lexus in August, 2007, the NAV didn't even have the highway near our house which had been completed in 2006. I asked Lexus why the brand new NAV wasn't up to date and, could I get a free update to the correct version. At first they balked, but when I explained the situation they agreed to provide the $165 update for free. Obviously it was a timing issue but some of you may be able to negotiate a free, or discounted, version. Just a thought.

I don't plan on updating for a few years since I rarely use the NAV. It's hard to get lost in Phoenix....

 

Same with me. I purchased my 2009 Z06 in July 2008, and the new 2009 CD's came with the 2009 cars built in either Sept or Oct, 2008.

In October I told my salesman that I purchased a 2009 car and I wanted 2009 CD. He routinely removed the CDs on the new cars and kept them in is desk(to keep them from "walking off"). He took my 2008 CD and gave me a new 2009 CD from his desk and then had the service department order a new 2009 CD(to go in his desk) under warranty.

Shortly after that, when I discovered what a POS the factory NAV was, I purchased a second Garmin. I wasn't about to spend $200 on a CD update.

Around Springfield, I don't program a destination into my Garmin, but I do keep it on the map display. On trips, where I'm running long distances on the boring Interstates I do enter a destination, because I've been known to miss an exit, even though I know the route by heart, because I was thinking about an old girlfriend(LOL) and not paying attention to the exit signs. The Bitch In the Box lets me know when my exit is approaching. The Garmin lady replaced my ex, who was very good at telling me were I should go.

Our club does a lot of Saturday/Sunday lunch cruises(sometimes to a destination some 125-150 miles one way), and we normally take a scenic route. Some of the restaurants are off the beaten path, so after lunch, I hit "home" on my Garmin, and it shows me the quickest route to get home, since I'm not playing "follow the leader" anymore.


Since it costs nothing to use the GPS that I paid for, I use it.