joemosfet

Anybody feel the need to mention ceramic coatings and how they pretty much make wax obsolete?

edit: I need a stir-the-pot icon...

GreenGA

Glen e

About 20 threads on here about coatings, good stuff, search it.

meyerweb

Do what you want, and what makes you happy. It's no skin off anyone else's back.

I'll only point out one thing about Glen's approach that I haven't seen mentioned: My car stays a lot cleaner than it did with just normal wash or combined wash/wax products. Mine is a daily driver, gets driven in the rain, on dirty, filthy roads, even dirt roads on occasion. I won't say dirt just slides off, but the car just stays shinier than any other car I've had (and didn't detail). When it does get washed, it's generally just 20 minutes with a rinseless wash product and it's ready to go again.

I'm not looking for a show finish either. The benefit to me is that the preparation and products Glen recommended actually save me time after the very first time, as well as keeping my car looking good.

Glen e

That's EXACTLY why I wrote the document. Because when it was shown to me , my jaw dropped as to why I was spending so much time on making a car look good. this just seems to just be less work and more longevity than anything else I've ever seen. And it's not the products, it's the product TYPE (WOWA, rinseless, etc) and procedure.

AdventurePoser

38f and blowing wind pushing the sun around. It seemed like a perfect day to give the car it's first wash. Glen, I took your basic advice for today-too cold to spend more than an hour...

Washed the car from top to bottom with a quality car detergent, dried it with micro towels and then sprayed on a thin coat of Meguiar's spray wax. Buffed it out and the car looks fabulous. Did wheels with the same, using a dedicated MF towel, sprayed them, looks great.

The car will be dirty tomorrow five minutes out of my driveway tomorrow, but those five minutes are gonna look sharp!!

PS: I learned you cannot have too many micro towels....

n8dogg

You couldn't be further from the truth. I've detailed cars professionally and have years of experience in paint correction. I never said Glen's write up/flow chart doesn't work. I simply said for the majority of Corvette owners it is a waste of time.

Why do you think there is a product called swirl mark remover? Saying that buffing shouldn't put in swirl marks is like saying sanding shouldn't put in scratches. Clearly you do not know much about buffing a car, I highly recommend doing some research and practicing on a beater.

Basic steps to buffing:

1.) Cut - performed with heavy, medium or light compound, depending on severity of paint defect. Heavy and medium contains sand or grit, this helps cut down the clear coat. You also use a compound foam or wool pad. THIS WILL SWIRL THE PAINT, IT IS NORMAL.

2a.) Light compound if you used medium or heavy. Just like going in steps with sand paper, you want to make the swirl marks more fine so that your end product will be much smoother.

2b.) Swirl mark remover- Swirl mark remover removes the swirl marks you just put in by cutting. While it does an excellent job at removing them, guess what, it does not completely remove swirl marks. This is near impossible unless you spend hours and hours and hours doing this by hand. Here is where most people get the wrong impression. When you are done with the swirl mark removal, and you did a good job, it will look like all the swirl marks are gone. Why? Because swirl mark remover has filler properties to help mask swirl marks too! Try this- Strip the wax off the paint and buff the car with swirl mark remover. Then wash the car again. Guess what you will see- Swirl Marks!

3.) Polish- Foam pad polish, some people skip right to glaze. I recommend polish before glaze or instead of glaze if you want to choose just one. Polish simply fills in micro-abrasions and slightly cleans the paint. Like swirl mark remover, it can be washed out and expose the micro-abrasions in the paint.

4.) Glaze- Kind of a waste of time unless you are planning on putting your car in a show or have a dark colored car.

5.) Paint Sealant/Wax- Some people choose paint sealant. Some choose wax. Some do both. Paint sealants typically do not have the pop that a carnuaba wax has. If your car is a cruise night/garage kept car that you wax every day/week/month, then I recommend just a wax. If your car sees weather or if you don't want to wax your car any more than 1 or 2 times per year than I recommend paint sealant. If you want the protection and the pop then do both (sealant first).

*Wax and paint sealant often have filler properties as well. So down quick wax/spray detailer. This is why so many people think that if you properly buff a car then you will never get swirl marks. The truth is, you will never see the swirl marks if you maintain the finish. Once you strip the wax, you'll likely strip the polish and swirl mark remover and expose the swirl marks.

*My advice- don't let a machine touch your paint if you can help it! A lot of the "flow chart" can be performed by hand, it just takes more elbow grease and time.

meyerweb

I don't know much about buffing a car, huh? Apparently I know enough to buff my car with a DA without putting any swirl marks in it.

I started with a new car with new paint, so I didn't need to use a compound at all. Maybe you don't know as much as you think you do.

n8dogg

You didn't buff your car. You polished it, with a product that fills micro-abrasions using the least aggressive machine on the market. You could be right, there might not be any swirl marks, depends on how much pressure you used, what chemicals you used. But use it again, and again, and again, and before you know it you will have them.

I shake my head at people who have a brand new car and put a machine on the paint. They'd get the same and safer results by polishing by hand, just like wax.

n8dogg

You have 1 post, which happens to be this one. Maybe a mod can check your IP and compare it to others in this thread.

Do a quick google search, you will find several articles on swirl marks. It's a very simple concept. When the paint is touched, it gets scratched. Swirl marks are scratches in the paint. The less intrusive/aggressive you are the less swirl marks you will get. The more careful you are, the less swirl marks you will get.

joemosfet

I do know that ceramic coating over a polished/buffed swirl free paint keeps the swirls away for quite some time.

n8dogg

Many waxes, sealants and coatings have filler properties that help mask swirl marks and other micro abrasions. Maintaining a good coat is important to keep the swirls at bay.

n8dogg

lol

yes, because people don't refer to bc/cc as paint.

Steve Garrett

Guys, if we can't have a conversation without bickering and personal attacks, I'll just close this thread and hand out the first bans for 2016.




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n8dogg

I looked for some pictures of cars that I've detailed for customers. At the moment I could only find a few pictures, but here is a before and after that shows "swirl mark" correction. As you can see, after the detail and swirl mark correction, there are no swirl marks seen.

Before (swirl marks):


After (swirl mark free):

joemosfet

Neat, following the process you described above?

You mentioned paint sealers don't shine as much as a wax job, is that true for just polymer seals or quartz coatings as well?

A few years ago, I purchased a HEMI Charger from dealer inventory that had a quartz ceramic coating (which I didn't think much of it at the time). I drive-thru washed it (sometimes hand washed it) but never waxed it. Never once did I get a swirl mark. I owned it for two years and after winning a few car show plaques, a driver turns in front of me at an intersection and end up totalling my car.

Well, the replacement was a new Camaro. This one I babied. Two-bucket hand wash, air-dry, hand wax. Yet I had swirl marks, like, two months into ownership. This is when I started wondering how the Charger never got swirl marks, which lead me to do research on the ceramic coating.

Now, I had always considered the Charger to be as shiny as the Camaro - shiny enough to win in the car show, right?

Well, my pops just got a new Charger, which I want to get something on there to prevent those swirl marks, but I certainly don't want to reduce his shine. Everywhere I read says that the quartz coating will actually increase the shine / gloss.

Eventually, I'll do the repair required on my new Corvette, but it's in the body shop right now getting a repair for the damage caused by the transport truck driver.

gurneyeagle

Asking for opinions on how to wash/wax a car is like asking for opinions on one's religion.


Lots of ways to accomplish the same result; both good and bad.


I'll leave it to the pros to debate the topic.


Just two observations after reading the thread (LOTS of good info BTW!)


I use a clay bar to strip the old wax/sealer instead of Dawn. I find that Dawn tends to "gray" the black trim due to it's oil removal characteristics. Again, just a personal preference.


My car can be classified as a 'garage queen". It is rarely parked outside. Even when I use it to commute, it is parked in my company's covered garage.


Still, I'm amazed at the amount of contaminants the clay bar picks up. I try and clay, polish, seal, and wax the car twice a year. In between, I wash weekly and follow up with Griot's spray wax.


One thing that I see hasn't really been touched upon is the negative effects of drying the car. No matter how soft the towel, and how delicate the touch, you are still dragging something across your paint.


I've tried everything over the past 40 years of car ownership, and have found that using a Master Blaster is THE best way to dry a car. A similar result can be achieved with an ELECTRIC leaf blower; it's just a bit more cumbersome. Anytime you can avoid touching the car, the better off you are.


Again, thanks for all the tips. I can never learn enough about keeping up the finish of my car.

n8dogg

A lot depends on the OE paint/clearcoat. The harder the paint the harder it is to scratch and swirl. Applying paint protection right off the bat (after the paint hardens and cures properly) can go a long way in preventing future swirl marks.

Historically paint sealants have not offered the pop and wet paint look that a premium carnuaba wax does. Within the last decade or so, paint sealants have come a long way. Now there are some great sealants that offer the protection and pop. One of my favorites is Wolfgang.

Ceramic Quartz is a paint sealant. Paint sealants are lab developed and contain synthetic polymers. Wax is natural, paint sealants are unnatural.

Dealer offered paint protection packages usually include some sort of paint sealant and paint insurance. When applied correctly, it can definitely last up to 2 years, I am sure this aided in your swirl free finish on your Charger.

If you were happy with your Charger, maybe your dad can get the same paint protection performed at the dealer.




You're right, any time the paint is touched you can get swirls/scratches. Compressed air and master blaster is a great drying method.

Another thing people don't consider- water pressure! Blasting a hose at maximum pressure against a dirty car can surely scratch it! Sometimes less is more.

joemosfet

I don't believe this is the case, at least with all ceramic coatings. For instance, CQuartz Finest contains silicon dioxide (a silicate, not a polymer) that cures to a measurable quartz ceramic layer.

Edit: because it forms a simple SiO2 layer (where each silicon molecule shares two oxygen molecules with it's neighbors), it is "natural" quartz. There are some coatings that will include other molecules in the SiO2 lattice to aid in water sheeting capabilities, perhaps these could be referred to as "unnatural."

I believe quartz ceramic coatings to be better than a polymer sealant due to it's superior clarity and molecular strength:

Source.

joemessman

I use a Sears Leaf Blower to dry mine. It takes about 2 minutes and it is bone dry except for a few cracks and crevices.