Does the 2016 C7 have the Start/Stop functionality?
02-01-2016, 10:33 AM
#61
Race Director
A few facts about this, in that I have used it pretty heavily.
Its generally okay. The car does not get too hot, and it does a good job of regulating the temperature. But, you can feel a change in the A/C as the car sits at a red light. It is nearly instantaneous startup when you take your foot off the brake.
Now for some opinion.
1. They either had to put a much more beefy starter in it, or be prepared to replace the starter eventually. If it is beefier, that's extra weight, but it is non rotational, and should only impact the performance by the extra weight of the starter motor.
2. I don't like the idea of the motor constantly shutting on and off. Irrespective of what anyone who is a proponent of this system will tell you, this does put more stress on parts. It does cause issues with differential heat, with uneven oil, etc.
Is your motor going to break down at 101k miles just after the warranty runs out. Who knows, but I highly doubt it. Manufacturers are not stupid, they have already figured the failure probabilities out, long before they started installing these things.
But, it will increase wear on your motor, battery, electrical system, oil system, brakes, everything over the life of your car. If you plan on keeping the car for 3 years and then upgrading or trading it in, who cares. If you plan to keep it for 20 years and put 350k miles on it, you may want to turn it off. Lastly, romping on the throttle a few times will likely be just as damaging and stressful as the start stop. Now being that the fuel pumps on the Z06 (and I assume the base c7) are mechanical, I have no idea how long they hold pressure when the car is shut off.
Its generally okay. The car does not get too hot, and it does a good job of regulating the temperature. But, you can feel a change in the A/C as the car sits at a red light. It is nearly instantaneous startup when you take your foot off the brake.
Now for some opinion.
1. They either had to put a much more beefy starter in it, or be prepared to replace the starter eventually. If it is beefier, that's extra weight, but it is non rotational, and should only impact the performance by the extra weight of the starter motor.
2. I don't like the idea of the motor constantly shutting on and off. Irrespective of what anyone who is a proponent of this system will tell you, this does put more stress on parts. It does cause issues with differential heat, with uneven oil, etc.
Is your motor going to break down at 101k miles just after the warranty runs out. Who knows, but I highly doubt it. Manufacturers are not stupid, they have already figured the failure probabilities out, long before they started installing these things.
But, it will increase wear on your motor, battery, electrical system, oil system, brakes, everything over the life of your car. If you plan on keeping the car for 3 years and then upgrading or trading it in, who cares. If you plan to keep it for 20 years and put 350k miles on it, you may want to turn it off. Lastly, romping on the throttle a few times will likely be just as damaging and stressful as the start stop. Now being that the fuel pumps on the Z06 (and I assume the base c7) are mechanical, I have no idea how long they hold pressure when the car is shut off.
Jimmy
PS. I suppose it's possible (350,000 miles) but these are the same guys that got 35,000 miles out of their OEM Goodyears on their C6's!
Last edited by jimmyb; 02-01-2016 at 10:35 AM.
02-01-2016, 10:41 AM
#62
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The best start stop system I have experienced is the MB system. It is instantaneous on start and you cant tell when it is running, or off...excellent system.
02-01-2016, 02:21 PM
#63
Safety Car
Geez, people, it's not that big a deal. If you don't want it, turn it off. If you want better MPG when stuck in traffic, turn it on. It's not like you won't have a choice.
02-01-2016, 03:01 PM
#64
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Here is my concern: At some point EPA and/or CARB is going to note that CAGS, AFM, and potentially start/stop systems (all of which are CAFE-compliance driven) are easily disabled or overridden. They will conclude that this invalidates the CAFE certification numbers, and therefore claim that by allowing these technologies to be easily defeated, the OEM is in effect providing a defeat device as defined by the Clean Air Act. Even a hint of this will scare the OEMs into making these systems impossible to turn off and nearly impossible to disable. I hope I'm wrong.
02-01-2016, 03:49 PM
#65
Burning Brakes
Please! Have some humanity!
10-11-2016, 11:14 AM
#66
My wife's 2016 ATS4 is equipped with it. Salesman told us immediately to just turn it off when driving, as it really doesn't save squat but does put excessive wear and tear on the starter and other components. Just passing along what he told us ...
10-11-2016, 11:41 AM
#67
If a salesman said it it must be true.
Start/stop is completely seamless. It doesn't start operating until the engine is warm, so starts are instantaneous. There is no extra wear on the engine, and the starters are heavier-duty components, which will likely last longer than the rest of the car will. The direct injection in the LT1 is harder on starters than start/stop because it has to crank longer to build up fuel pressure in the system.
I have it in on my Jeep Cherokee, my wife has it on her MB C-300, and I had it on my Jaguar F-Type. We could turn it off, but after awhile we learned to like it. It's neither a nuisance, nor an inconvenience unless you're just one of those people who are easily annoyed by trivial little things. It doesn't delay your departure from a stop even a millisecond because it restarts quicker than you can transfer your foot from brake to throttle.
In the not-too-distant future, the button to turn it off will disappear w/ tightening CAFE regulations. You should be happy manufacturers are figuring out ways to keep delivering high HP engines within the CAFE regs, because at some point the only alternative will be 4-bangers and electrics. It continually boggles my mind that folks completely ignore the political realities of our time and take shots at manufacturers who are doing an incredible job pumping out incredible products, despite tough regulations.
And BTW, start/stop has been incorporated on manual transmissions. The Jaguar F-Type manual has start/stop.
Start/stop is completely seamless. It doesn't start operating until the engine is warm, so starts are instantaneous. There is no extra wear on the engine, and the starters are heavier-duty components, which will likely last longer than the rest of the car will. The direct injection in the LT1 is harder on starters than start/stop because it has to crank longer to build up fuel pressure in the system.
I have it in on my Jeep Cherokee, my wife has it on her MB C-300, and I had it on my Jaguar F-Type. We could turn it off, but after awhile we learned to like it. It's neither a nuisance, nor an inconvenience unless you're just one of those people who are easily annoyed by trivial little things. It doesn't delay your departure from a stop even a millisecond because it restarts quicker than you can transfer your foot from brake to throttle.
In the not-too-distant future, the button to turn it off will disappear w/ tightening CAFE regulations. You should be happy manufacturers are figuring out ways to keep delivering high HP engines within the CAFE regs, because at some point the only alternative will be 4-bangers and electrics. It continually boggles my mind that folks completely ignore the political realities of our time and take shots at manufacturers who are doing an incredible job pumping out incredible products, despite tough regulations.
And BTW, start/stop has been incorporated on manual transmissions. The Jaguar F-Type manual has start/stop.
Last edited by Foosh; 10-11-2016 at 12:27 PM.
10-11-2016, 11:55 AM
#68
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Studies show now (BMW) its worth 4-6 pct savings, and in the future when they tweak it, it'll get 9-11 pct savings. (AAA)... that's huge.....looked at it another way, on 100 gals of gas, you save 10 bucks, that's the start of a bar tab.
People are frantic about this, but as foosh says, live with it and you get over the paranoia.....
People are frantic about this, but as foosh says, live with it and you get over the paranoia.....
10-11-2016, 12:31 PM
#69
Glen,
You're absolutely correct. One of the "tweaks" is that the "off button will disappear. That will become necessary as the testing for fuel economy ratings is continually tweaked to mimic "real world" conditions. The "off" button is not unlike VW's software to cheat on emissions tests if you think about it.
The regulators will want cars tested as they are usually operated, which means many drivers turn start/stop off. Once that happens, manufacturers will have no choice but to eliminate it.
You're absolutely correct. One of the "tweaks" is that the "off button will disappear. That will become necessary as the testing for fuel economy ratings is continually tweaked to mimic "real world" conditions. The "off" button is not unlike VW's software to cheat on emissions tests if you think about it.
The regulators will want cars tested as they are usually operated, which means many drivers turn start/stop off. Once that happens, manufacturers will have no choice but to eliminate it.
Last edited by Foosh; 10-11-2016 at 12:44 PM.
10-11-2016, 12:42 PM
#70
Racer
Must say, I don't understand all the concerns. It represents some pretty darn good engineering. And it has been around for several years. Heck even our Honda Civic Hybrid had it for the 2003 MY, and it worked pretty darn good even then. Never could beat the restart no matter how hard I tried to move my foot from the brake to the accelerator before it restarted.
Even better implementation in Ford Fusion / Mercury Milan Hybrids in 2010 MY. Car always stayed at set temperature at stoplights, engine automatically restarting if needed. Start-Stop did not function if below about 40F.
Great technology. I would welcome it on any car.
Even better implementation in Ford Fusion / Mercury Milan Hybrids in 2010 MY. Car always stayed at set temperature at stoplights, engine automatically restarting if needed. Start-Stop did not function if below about 40F.
Great technology. I would welcome it on any car.
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Foosh (10-11-2016)
10-11-2016, 01:14 PM
#71
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If a salesman said it it must be true.
Start/stop is completely seamless. It doesn't start operating until the engine is warm, so starts are instantaneous. There is no extra wear on the engine, and the starters are heavier-duty components, which will likely last longer than the rest of the car will. The direct injection in the LT1 is harder on starters than start/stop because it has to crank longer to build up fuel pressure in the system.
I have it in on my Jeep Cherokee, my wife has it on her MB C-300, and I had it on my Jaguar F-Type. We could turn it off, but after awhile we learned to like it. It's neither a nuisance, nor an inconvenience unless you're just one of those people who are easily annoyed by trivial little things. It doesn't delay your departure from a stop even a millisecond because it restarts quicker than you can transfer your foot from brake to throttle.
In the not-too-distant future, the button to turn it off will disappear w/ tightening CAFE regulations. You should be happy manufacturers are figuring out ways to keep delivering high HP engines within the CAFE regs, because at some point the only alternative will be 4-bangers and electrics. It continually boggles my mind that folks completely ignore the political realities of our time and take shots at manufacturers who are doing an incredible job pumping out incredible products, despite tough regulations.
And BTW, start/stop has been incorporated on manual transmissions. The Jaguar F-Type manual has start/stop.
Start/stop is completely seamless. It doesn't start operating until the engine is warm, so starts are instantaneous. There is no extra wear on the engine, and the starters are heavier-duty components, which will likely last longer than the rest of the car will. The direct injection in the LT1 is harder on starters than start/stop because it has to crank longer to build up fuel pressure in the system.
I have it in on my Jeep Cherokee, my wife has it on her MB C-300, and I had it on my Jaguar F-Type. We could turn it off, but after awhile we learned to like it. It's neither a nuisance, nor an inconvenience unless you're just one of those people who are easily annoyed by trivial little things. It doesn't delay your departure from a stop even a millisecond because it restarts quicker than you can transfer your foot from brake to throttle.
In the not-too-distant future, the button to turn it off will disappear w/ tightening CAFE regulations. You should be happy manufacturers are figuring out ways to keep delivering high HP engines within the CAFE regs, because at some point the only alternative will be 4-bangers and electrics. It continually boggles my mind that folks completely ignore the political realities of our time and take shots at manufacturers who are doing an incredible job pumping out incredible products, despite tough regulations.
And BTW, start/stop has been incorporated on manual transmissions. The Jaguar F-Type manual has start/stop.
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Foosh (10-11-2016)
10-11-2016, 01:55 PM
#72
Because all salespersons are idiots, right?
For the average driver, they will see no appreciable difference in mileage. If and I repeat IF they drive with the A/C off, they might see a couple percent better fuel economy. But who drives with no A/C in the non-winter months? And then you've got the added cost, wear and/or repair/replace of bigger/different battery, electric cooling pumps, extra anti-friction coatings on cranks and rods, heavier duty starter, etc.
The effects of stop-start systems are NOT baked into the EPA fuel economy estimates for the very cars that use such systems, so that dog don't hunt. This is per Dan Edmunds, Director of Vehicle Testing for Edmunds.com.
Start/stop is completely seamless.
In the not-too-distant future, the button to turn it off will disappear w/ tightening CAFE regulations.
10-11-2016, 01:57 PM
#73
Your post is nonsense.
10-11-2016, 01:57 PM
#74
Glen,
You're absolutely correct. One of the "tweaks" is that the "off button will disappear. That will become necessary as the testing for fuel economy ratings is continually tweaked to mimic "real world" conditions. The "off" button is not unlike VW's software to cheat on emissions tests if you think about it.
The regulators will want cars tested as they are usually operated, which means many drivers turn start/stop off. Once that happens, manufacturers will have no choice but to eliminate it.
You're absolutely correct. One of the "tweaks" is that the "off button will disappear. That will become necessary as the testing for fuel economy ratings is continually tweaked to mimic "real world" conditions. The "off" button is not unlike VW's software to cheat on emissions tests if you think about it.
The regulators will want cars tested as they are usually operated, which means many drivers turn start/stop off. Once that happens, manufacturers will have no choice but to eliminate it.
10-11-2016, 02:32 PM
#75
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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Location: NE South Carolina
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Must say, I don't understand all the concerns. It represents some pretty darn good engineering. And it has been around for several years. Heck even our Honda Civic Hybrid had it for the 2003 MY, and it worked pretty darn good even then. Never could beat the restart no matter how hard I tried to move my foot from the brake to the accelerator before it restarted.
Even better implementation in Ford Fusion / Mercury Milan Hybrids in 2010 MY. Car always stayed at set temperature at stoplights, engine automatically restarting if needed. Start-Stop did not function if below about 40F.
Great technology. I would welcome it on any car.
Even better implementation in Ford Fusion / Mercury Milan Hybrids in 2010 MY. Car always stayed at set temperature at stoplights, engine automatically restarting if needed. Start-Stop did not function if below about 40F.
Great technology. I would welcome it on any car.
well intergrated in our BMW SUV. Can hardly tell when it starts. Better than my buddies new Volve. On average 17% of fuel is wasted idling why not eliminate some of that wast. Yep I can shut it off buy why.
10-11-2016, 02:49 PM
#76
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
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Because all salespersons are idiots, right?
For the average driver, they will see no appreciable difference in mileage. If and I repeat IF they drive with the A/C off, they might see a couple percent better fuel economy. But who drives with no A/C in the non-winter months? And then you've got the added cost, wear and/or repair/replace of bigger/different battery, electric cooling pumps, extra anti-friction coatings on cranks and rods, heavier duty starter, etc.
The effects of stop-start systems are NOT baked into the EPA fuel economy estimates for the very cars that use such systems, so that dog don't hunt. This is per Dan Edmunds, Director of Vehicle Testing for Edmunds.com.
For the average driver, they will see no appreciable difference in mileage. If and I repeat IF they drive with the A/C off, they might see a couple percent better fuel economy. But who drives with no A/C in the non-winter months? And then you've got the added cost, wear and/or repair/replace of bigger/different battery, electric cooling pumps, extra anti-friction coatings on cranks and rods, heavier duty starter, etc.
The effects of stop-start systems are NOT baked into the EPA fuel economy estimates for the very cars that use such systems, so that dog don't hunt. This is per Dan Edmunds, Director of Vehicle Testing for Edmunds.com.
10-11-2016, 03:31 PM
#77
Racer
^Less.
10-11-2016, 04:15 PM
#78
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
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10-11-2016, 04:36 PM
#79
"How Much Can You Save?
It turns out the effects of stop-start systems aren't baked into the EPA fuel economy estimates for the very cars that use such systems. The official city test pattern has plenty of stops, but there's not nearly as much idle time as many of us deal with every day. It's entirely possible that a stop-start car could exceed its own city mpg rating with the system engaged.
The engineers we asked about potential fuel savings always spoke in terms of a range of 3-10 percent, with some venturing as high as 12 percent. The wide span accounts for the variety of driving conditions out there. People who pause briefly at four-way stops have less to gain than those who sit idle at numerous long signals. The longer you sit, the more you save.
It boils down to this. If your car usually manages 20 mpg in the city, it could earn 22 or 23 mpg if it had a stop-start system."
http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...save-fuel.html
