But the reason people use the nitrogen is I was told it has less chg in the tire pressure than just AIR and other. Plus that was what I was talking about pure nitrogen..

 

 

You have been told wrong. Air and "pure" nitrogen both change pressure with temperature changes. It's basic physics.

 

Funny

 

It is an "ADP" item , dealers love stuff like this.....

ADP= additional dealer profit

If the dealer gives it to you free, take it, but dont pay a single penny for it.

 

So, all those race car guys using nitrogen...they are all idiots?

 

Just don't forget, you'll need to change the internal air filters for the tires if you change over to nitrogen as they use different filters for that. . . . .



j/k

 

They use it because it's dry, not because it somehow magically defies the laws of physics and doesn't change pressure with temperature. And, unless they somehow evacuate all the air before filling with nitrogen, which is highly unlikely, they're not running pure nitrogen anyway.

As many knowledgeable people have said in many, many threads here about this, if it's free go ahead as it won't hurt anything. If it costs you extra it's simply a scam to separate you from your money for a street car.

 

You were told wrong. Pure nitrogen has exactly the same response to changes in temperature as dry air. And any decent shop has a dryer in their air line, if for no other reason than to protect their tools. Even IF the nitrogen in the tank at your dealer is pure, the mix in your tires won't be. There will always be POA (plain old air) mixed in.

 

I've actually seen some serious autocrossers using wheels with dual valve stems. Not for this reason, but so they can have a pressure gauge on one while they add air from a compressed air bottle through the other. When you don't have much time between runs, this saves precious seconds.

 

Made a document about wich turns it around .
Yust try to demith this.

Filling car tires with normal air is better then with Nitrogen.
A. Oxygen, which makes 21% of normal outside air, in volume absorbs more energy to rise a degree in temperature then Nitrogen.
Difference is only 1% , but in selling argument is sometimes mentioned in energy/ mass so Joule/kg.degr. Kelvin and there Nitrogen wins by 13 % . Tires though are filled with a certain volume so that counts .
This selling argument can be de-myth simply by the fact that its untrue.

B. Water in a tire transports the heat more then dry air or Nitrogen-filling ( which is by its production process free of water).
Not for no reason water is used in central heating and cooling system of cars as main substance.
The tire inside will have lower temperature which is better for cooling down the important spots of the tire wich have to keep a low enough temperature to prevent hardening and damage in next bending of those parts.
When incidentally the tire inside gets hotter ( sunshine on tire or severe braking, or high ambient temperature) more water goes over to gas wich highens the pressure inside the tire more then dry gas. Also then more water as gas in tire so even better cooling.
So advantage of water is 2 ways when needed, better cooling and lesser heat production.
Disadvantages of water as oxidation only happen at outside . Tire specialists will confirm that when they remove a tire of the rim , the rim inside the tire is not corroded.

C. When a Truck, transporting flammable substance, is on fire, the little oxygen in a tire will , when exploding ,probably even kill the fire .
In tunnels experiments where done to kill the fire with air current , and it worked, despite the oxygen in it.

D. A normal car tire up to truck tire is not a race-car tire, for which a constant as high as possible contact area, so best grip , is needed to give half a second better round time.
For that reason they are filled with as dry as possible air or Nitrogen.
That this gives low lifetime is not important, and for a normal car tire it is.
Often blowing tires at racing, is seen there as collateral damage, but we don’t want that for normal car tires.

E. A car tire is also not a airplane- tire in which the water can freeze and when landing this can give misbalance , which can lead to tire-failure or accident, when suddenly going from zero to about 200m/h.
The water in a car tire does not freeze that often, and when it does and the car begins do drive , it begins slow and the misbalance is not a big problem . then pretty soon, certainly when on speed the ice is melted to water and problem will be gone.

F. When filled with normal air the user is aware of checking the tires regularly, which takes better care of a saver tire, because regularly filled up to the right pressure and optical checking of the tire .
The illusion that Nitrogen filling makes the tire to loose almost no pressure, which is often exaggerated to 5 times , while in real a poor 2 times and then only in the very beginning, makes the user less caring .
The tire also looses air when hitting pavement so temporary leak between edge of tire and rim, Filling with whatever gas-combination won’t prevent that.
This idea is even stronger when TMPS is used which is often inaccurate , so the user thinks to maintain the right pressure, while really riding with to low pressure for longer time, which can lead to tire damage. Aftermarket sensors for TMPS when screwed on the valve can give leakage trough hole where valve is placed , because of the bending of the valve by centrifugal forces at speed.

G. Filling with normal air is always possible, even with a bicycle- pump, is only to fill up so won’t take that long. When you keep driving with to low pressure , in order to find a place to fill with Nitrogen, you damage your tires. So just fill up with normal outside air, even when the tire is filled with Nitrogen. Then also you don’t need to have the tire refilled with pure Nitrogen by your tire specialist when at home again, not worth the trouble, and normal air is even better then nitrogen because of the water in it.

 

http://www.getnitrogen.org/sub.php?view=nascar

 

Well, I am going to my dealer sometime in the next week to have the Z51 sway bars installed on my base model...I'll ask if they did the NitroFil.
Since there was no margin in the deal for them - employee (I'm a legacy)pricing - I am skeptical they'd give me this free.

 

Oh, yes, an organization that profits from selling nitrogen. That is certainly an unbiased source!

 

First did not take the trouble to read the link from getnitro, but now did.
2 things they see as advantage, and I will relativate them.

1. Pressure loss in time less with Nitrogen instead of normal air.
Oxigen (O2) diffuses faster though the rubber then Nitrogen ( N2), true but often exagerated to 5 times as fast , but found out that its about 3 times as fast.
This does not mean that the tire looses 3 times as much pressure in the same time if filled with 100% O2 instead of 100% N2.
Its like a drumm filled with water , make a hole at the bottom , and in the beginning the speed of water is more then in the end.
Its all about partial pressure of the seperate gasses and the difference of that between in and outside of tire.
Called Daltons law , wich states that every gas of a gascompound, reacts as if it was the only gas.
Even when you are able to fill the tire with 100% Nitrogen so zero%O2 , the O2 will difuse into the tire until Partial pressure O2 ( Pp O2) is the same in and outside.
In this example: inside tire Pp O2 = whatever bar x 0%= 0 barr, and outside tire Pp O2 = 1 bar x 21%= 0.21 barr . then outside Pp O2 is higher then inside so O2 diffuses into the tire , against the higher pressure. the closer it will get to 0.21 in the tire , the lesser O2 a timeunit will diffuse in.

When the %% are inside tire N2 95% and O2 5% , percentages stay longer time the same when presure loss by diffusion, so tire looses for instance 5 psi in time , but still percentages N2 95% and O2 5%.
This at about 3.5 barr/51 psi.
Inside tire pressure then is 4.5 bar/65 psi , because what you read is the overpressure above outside ambiënt pressure.
Pp O2 then is aproximately 0.225 barr -outside PPO2 of 0.21 barr= partial overpressure of O2 only 0.015 barr, so speed of diffusion of O2 verry low.
N2 thoug inside 95% of 4.5 barr= 4.275 barr - outside 0.79 barr= partial overpressure N2 = 3.485 Barr /51 psi
Then because of the larger amount of N2 , the same percentage leaks out dispite of the lesser speed, and the percentages stay the same for longer time.

In short you can say that the gascompound will work its way to a percentage O2 belonging to the pressure in tire.
This is aproximately , 10% O2 for mesured pressure of 1 barr , 5% for 3 barr, 2% for 9 barr.

Same counts for water as gas wich probably diffuses faster trough the rubber then Oxigen, when zero water in tire, in time there will be because it diffuses from outside to inside.
Have not found prove but think that liquid water does not diffuse trough the rubber of tire at all, so by complicated system of pressure diffences and humidity outside , its possible that in a few years a large amount of water comes into the tire.

found a Exell file on the internet about the maximum partial pressures of water ( as gas) .
One is already known , at 100 degr C/212F water boils so Pp water max of 1.013 barr Pp

Will give a list in steps of 20 degrees C from that list, and I myself conversed to Psi and degr F.
pressure absolute here is Ambiënt pressure + measured overpressure for a tire.
Degr C/ degr F / bar absolute/psi absolute

..0/..32 /0,006111536/0,0886
.20/..68/0,02338504/0,33917
.40/104/0,073836286/1,07091
.60/140/0,199404156/2,89212
.80/176/0,473892271/6,87324
100/212/1,01347789/14,69928

How to read this.
When having absolute dry gascompound in tire and pressure rises by temperature rising , it can be calculated with the gaslaw.
But when there is enaugh water in the tire to go over to gas , it can only go over to gas until the above given Partial pressure is reached.
So when going from 32 degr F and humidity zero in tire but enaugh water as liquid, and temp rises to 104 degr F , we read 1.07 psi maximum Pp of water so calculated pressure with gas law can only be rised extra by the water with that 1.07 psi.
This 104 degr F is about the average warm inside tire temp when driving about 50m/h.
This extra pressure rising will give a bit lesser deflection so a bit lesser heatproduction of tire, so in the end the tire with enaug water in it will have a bit lower inside tire temp then the for instance Nitrogen filled tire.
For races , where inside tire temp can rise to 90degrC/194F the extra rising would be 10.17 psi by the water in tire.
But at this inside tire temp the rubber gets to hot so damages, but roadcontact is better with dry N2 , and that counts for races, and damage to tire is seen as colateral damage.
Best there would be to find a way to activey cool down the tire , for instance by blowing air over the top of the tire, not the bottom because speed to air there is zero, at the top about 2 times carspeed.
Then inside tire temp can be brougt back to for instance 60 degrC/140 degr F for wich the water can only rise extra 2.89 psi and rubber stays under a sertain temp at wich damage happens.

 

Just my $.02, BUT I put nitrogen in my airplane tires, and also am told that nitrogen molecules are larger than standard air, therefore IF you get a screw or nail in the tire, the air will not leak as fast till you can get the tire repaired...since we are all now using runflats, I want to be able to get to a place to fix my tire rather than try to fill the air into the tire on the side of an interstate !!

 

some funny in this thread to be sure

 

Its another way they can stick it to you by charging several hundred dollars. I've lived in cold mountain climate and hot desert climate. Save your money and use "air". Your air is 78% nitrogen anyway.

 

 

When you fly your Corvette at high altitude, and accelerate the tires from zero to whatever your landing speed is in a 10th of a second, then your airplane practice will be relevant. Otherwise, not so much.

Yes, Nitrogen molecules are bigger, but not so much bigger they will affect the rate of loss after a puncture. Bigger doesn't mean they're 1/4 inch in diameter, for Pete's sake.

http://www.pedrosgarage.com/Site_5/Nitrogen_or_Air.html

So a nitrogen molecule is 8 trillionth of a meter larger than an oxygen molecule. 8 tillionth! Gonna need a pretty powerful microscope to see that.

1.3 psi difference over a full year. Impressive.

I don't know if it's the internet, or if people have always believed what "they hear" without any critical analysis. But with the wealth of factual information easily available to fact check things today, it's kind of a shame few people bother.