When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Well said post, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you are in the business, IIRC? To counter, I've never found a dealer that showed any consideration about my financial circumstances when purchasing a car, why should I care about theirs? That's an emotional tactic that gets thrown in to try to close a sale by playing on the customers sympathies. Have you ever had one that said, "let me knock another $500 off for you because I'm concerned that your kid's tuition is due and I don't want you to stress yourself financially". It's my job as a consumer to save every dollar that I can. In negotiations, the dealer is not my friend. And it's really hard for me to be sympathetic when I've seen and known so many incredibly wealthy dealership owners who can't find enough ways to spend their money. I cringe when I get the old "you are expecting me to give you the car and not make anything- would you do that?" And I get that you are referencing the line salesman, but I'm concerned with what the dealership is making. Its not my problem the salesperson is getting fucked by the owner who is too busy flying his new King Air or buying ranches in Colorado to worry about how his/her sales force is getting by at the end of the month. I actually had one dealer recently (I will not names) showing me pictures of his new Ferrari he just added to his impressive collection of exotic cars, and then refused to knock his $599 dealer fee off of the deal we were discussing. Furthermore a fact that often gets overlooked is that the service department is the real money maker for any dealership if well run. We tend to look at car sales as the only revenue stream for any dealership and that is just gravy for the dealer. Look at the amount of warranty claims that gets submitted at any moderately busy dealership. I have to wonder if this isn't their true business and selling cars is just an incidental income stream.
Originally Posted by mpuzach
It depends upon how you look at it. Pretty much everyone knows that a dealership makes holdback money even when they sell the car at invoice. This is usually 2-2.5% of M.S.R.P. (exclusive of destination). The business is now such that many buyers expect the dealership to not only sell at invoice, but to further reduce the sale price by the total amount of holdback. They argue that the dealership still makes money in the form of a kickback per vehicle sold IF specific sales quotas are met. We're at the point where buyers now also expect the dealership to give up that money in the form of even further price reductions. When you see a dealer selling a new Corvette at $5K under invoice, many times they are in fact taking a loss in the hope that they'll end up selling enough cars to make up for the loss with this GM kickback money (which is never guaranteed).
There are plenty of people out there (and on this forum) who believe that every possible dollar should be given to the buyer in the form of deep discounts. Unfortunately, when the big guys do it on a sale here and there it makes it impossible for the little guys to compete because the low volume stores don't have the ability to generate nearly as many kickback dollars.
As for the sales person, when an $80,000 car is sold at or below invoice the commission at most stores is what's referred to as a "mini". A mini is that dealership's lowest possible commission, paid to the salesperson regardless of whether or not the dealership actually made money on the deal. In my experience, that amount is typically $150-$200. I've read many posts here by people who openly admit they don't care whether or not the salesperson or the dealership make any money; I have to wonder how many of those people would be willing to work for free.
[QUOTE=mpuzach;1593814896]It depends upon how you look at it. /QUOTE]
The argument you make, though valid, is not much different than comparing Walmart to the local "Mom & Pop" Shop. Almost always the little guy, who though they bring great service and support, often losses out to the big guys who focus on volumes sales. There are plenty of folks out there who will outright avoid going to the big guys... "WALMART! What arte you crazy they are killing the local businesses..." Yet Walmart is packed. Why because people want a great deal.
In my case MacMulkin brought me the BEST of BOTH. Great Deal, and GREAT Service!
The internet has fundamentally changed the why business compete. There is just no getting around "shopping around". If a local (heck ANY) dealer is unable OR unwilling to compete for my business then that is unfortunate for them.
In response to the statement would you work for free. My reply is a very simple, "If you can't operate in a competitive environment, AND succeed, THEN you should consider a different line of work, because you are not successful".
Not trying to give offense here.. Just stating my opinion
Well said post, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you are in the business, IIRC? To counter, I've never found a dealer that showed any consideration about my financial circumstances when purchasing a car, why should I care about theirs? That's an emotional tactic that gets thrown in to try to close a sale by playing on the customers sympathies. Have you ever had one that said, "let me knock another $500 off for you because I'm concerned that your kid's tuition is due and I don't want you to stress yourself financially". It's my job as a consumer to save every dollar that I can. In negotiations, the dealer is not my friend. And it's really hard for me to be sympathetic when I've seen and known so many incredibly wealthy dealership owners who can't find enough ways to spend their money. I cringe when I get the old "you are expecting me to give you the car and not make anything- would you do that?" And I get that you are referencing the line salesman, but I'm concerned with what the dealership is making. Its not my problem the salesperson is getting fucked by the owner who is too busy flying his new King Air or buying ranches in Colorado to worry about saving me every last dollar he can. Furthermore a fact that often gets overlooked is that the service department is the real money maker for any dealership if well run. We tend to look at car sales as the only revenue stream for any dealership and that is just gravy for the dealer. Look at the amount of warranty claims that gets submitted at any moderately busy dealership. I have to wonder if this isn't their true business and selling cars is just an incidental income stream.
You are correct, I am in the business but have been for only a relatively short period of time. It's unfortunate that it has become what it is, where in many (if not most) cases there's an adversarial relationship between buyer and seller. I don't expect anyone here to care but I've worked very hard to approach this business with integrity and in such a way that my customers have a genuinely positive experience. Still, I find that most with whom I deal have decided before they even walk through the door that I and everyone else in the business are among the lowest forms of life on earth and should be treated as such. They come in expecting a bad experience and we're treated accordingly. It thus probably comes as no surprise that my days in this business are numbered.
I've never had another Forum dealer even come close to MacMulkin. I was able to get a 2LT car for the same price I was quoted on a 1LT and even saved money on top of that. While shopping for my GS, I had a local dealer tell me that MacMulkin's price was a "bullshit deal". This is the same dealer that tacks on $1394 in dealer fees (er, "government" fees LMAO). Took a flight to NH the next day and took that bullshit deal and drove my new GS back to FL the next day. Lol. Shame most dealers can't see the big picture- especially when you are dealing with a salesman who cares only about his commission that day and won't look long term. MacMulkin can sell with the discounts they do because they get bonus monies from GM by meeting large quotas at the end of the year. Smart if you ask me. They are a true volume dealer. Plus, they get huge allocations due to their location. Every dealer I've ever tried to work in the past has lied saying "GM never pays any back end money- that's a lie if someone says they do". And that is true only because they never meet sales quotas. Only one dealer has been honest about it. Guess who?
None of the Vette sales people at MacMulkin are on commission. Mark, Kenny G and Tom are super to deal with. The thing I really like is that they consider the Corvette owners the Cream of their customers and you get treated that way every time you go there for anything. Surprising because they also sell caddys. I was there recently to get my Silverado serviced, bumped into Kenny G and he took personal control of my Silverado service and instructed the mechanic to make it perfect and watched over the service, just because I was a one of their vette owners. Treated like I was the dealership owner. Several years ago when I had a problem with a computer on my C6, very expensive. They charged me their cost and reduced labor. Got an unbeatable price on my C7. First class operation all around. your experience may be different.
I've gotten quotes in Houston for $6k-$8k to do xpel or xpel stealth for the entire car. How much did you pay, and what impact areas did you have installed?
$3,000 at Macmulkin last May, whole car prior to delivery
I just bought a 2017 Grand Sport from MacMulkin. They just loaded it on the transport today. Pic below... Before I purchased I compared exact models and options (2LT, LBR, Nav/PDR, Chrome Wheels) to 5 dealers... 2 local Northern VA dealerships and 3 more distant, but well known dealers (Kerbeck, MacMulkin and Criswell). After comparing the 2 local dealerships NOT EVEN Close, nor were they even interested in dealing. Even had one state that if I didn't buy from them they would not service any corvette purchased at another dealership (There are names for those kind of folks).
Criswell was the first to drop out... not because of price but for some reason they have a very low inventory and what I wanted was not even close to what they had.
Kerbeck had almost exactly what I wanted (I didn't not want Kalahari), but I had read about "Hidden Documentation costs" I called them and the sales told me exactly how much the documentation would cost. $690
MacMulkin had exactly what I wanted, and they were the lowest priced of all. HOWEVER, the catch was I am having the Corvette shipped from NH to VA. That is $995, but MacMulkin does not charge ANY fees docs or not. Listed price is the sale price.
After comparing the Kerbeck w/doc fee VS MacMulkin W/Shipping costs.... MacMulkin still better deal by $500. Now that is not much and I can't say exactly what my experience with Kerbeck would have been since I didn't buy there. What I can Say 100% is that my over the phone, sight unseen buying experience was absolutely beyond reproach! Mark, Kenny, Tommy Jr were TOP-NOTCH! Best vehicle buying experience I have ever had, hands down.
Here it is being loaded on to InterCity Lines shipping (Their preferred shipping service)
My two cents,
L1FR
Congrats on your purchase! Maybe we'll run into each other. I bought a 2016 white Z06 from Kerbeck. Not surprised about the refusal to service comment from our two closest dealers. I am going to Country Chevy for the free oil changes and will likely go to Cooper Corvettes for services once I need to start paying.
The only thing that kills it with McMulkin is they order ALL their vettes with double roof pkgs. Complete waste of money. Otherwise, they have huge inventory with great prices.
The only thing that kills it with McMulkin is they order ALL their vettes with double roof pkgs. Complete waste of money. Otherwise, they have huge inventory with great prices.
Not true. Check their inventory.
I will add that Macmulkins drags their feet. Tried calling yesterday and was placed on hold and after a few minutes I hung up. Today I emailed them. Then I called, placed on hold again. Finally left a voice message for someone to answer.
As of this time I never heard back from any one at the dealership.
I will add that Macmulkins drags their feet. Tried calling yesterday and was placed on hold and after a few minutes I hung up. Today I emailed them. Then I called, placed on hold again. Finally left a voice message for someone to answer.
As of this time I never heard back from any one at the dealership.
That's the front office. I have Kenny G's cell phone number. PM me if you want it and you can text him
I will add that Macmulkins drags their feet. Tried calling yesterday and was placed on hold and after a few minutes I hung up. Today I emailed them. Then I called, placed on hold again. Finally left a voice message for someone to answer.
As of this time I never heard back from any one at the dealership.
Maybe not as much recently, but in the not so distant past, it seemed like every car they had in stock had dual roofs. I just got off their site and it appears they are learning to not equip all their cars with that pkge.
I've gotten quotes in Houston for $6k-$8k to do xpel or xpel stealth for the entire car. How much did you pay, and what impact areas did you have installed?
Full bumper , hood, headlights, rear view mirror, rockers, front of and back of rear wheel $2000 and no sales tax in live free or die NH
It depends upon how you look at it. Pretty much everyone knows that a dealership makes holdback money even when they sell the car at invoice. This is usually 2-2.5% of M.S.R.P. (exclusive of destination). The business is now such that many buyers expect the dealership to not only sell at invoice, but to further reduce the sale price by the total amount of holdback. They argue that the dealership still makes money in the form of a kickback per vehicle sold IF specific sales quotas are met. We're at the point where buyers now also expect the dealership to give up that money in the form of even further price reductions. When you see a dealer selling a new Corvette at $5K under invoice, many times they are in fact taking a loss in the hope that they'll end up selling enough cars to make up for the loss with this GM kickback money (which is never guaranteed).
There are plenty of people out there (and on this forum) who believe that every possible dollar should be given to the buyer in the form of deep discounts. Unfortunately, when the big guys do it on a sale here and there it makes it impossible for the little guys to compete because the low volume stores don't have the ability to generate nearly as many kickback dollars.
As for the sales person, when an $80,000 car is sold at or below invoice the commission at most stores is what's referred to as a "mini". A mini is that dealership's lowest possible commission, paid to the salesperson regardless of whether or not the dealership actually made money on the deal. In my experience, that amount is typically $150-$200. I've read many posts here by people who openly admit they don't care whether or not the salesperson or the dealership make any money; I have to wonder how many of those people would be willing to work for free.
When I bought my '16 Stingray and leased a '16 Malibu LT in October the dealer told me with both deals it's a "$10,000 loser for the dealership"! The Corvette had an MSRP of $65,980 and was discounted $13,145. In addition, It had a 10% Bonus tag rebate of $6598. The rebate combined with the discount totaled $19,743 off the MSRP! The Malibu carried a $3150 rebate from GM and am leasing the $26,750 Malibu for $274 a month for 36 months with just the first payment down. I know invoice on my Vette was around $59,000 and I know the Rebates of $6598 and $3150 are from GM, but the rest had to been a loss...Right?
Last edited by Supersonic 427; 01-07-2017 at 04:17 PM.
When I bought my '16 Stingray and leased a '16 Malibu LT in October the dealer told me with both deals it's a "$10,000 loser for the dealership"! The Corvette had an MSRP of $65,980 and was discounted $13,145. In addition, It had a 10% Bonus tag rebate of $6598. The rebate combined with the discount totaled $19,743 off the MSRP! The Malibu carried a $3150 rebate from GM and am leasing the $26,750 Malibu for $274 a month for 36 months with just the first payment down. I know invoice on my Vette was around $59,000 and I know the Rebates of $6598 and $3150 are from GM, but the rest had to been a loss...Right?
01-07-2017, 02:24 PM
Mike really did a great job on my C7, and not just on price.
