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I found Carbotech brake pads performed better than the OEM pads on my 2014 C7 Z51, particularly when they were cold. The Powerstop Z26 pads installed on my new Grand Sport required more peddle force and were not as linear in stopping power versus peddle force. They did not provide the stopping confidence in a turn I make every day! Gave them 900 miles but they got no better.
The last straw was a forum poster showed pics of his rotors after using Powerstop Z26 pads for a year. They were discolored! My rotors were not discolored but in only 900 miles and there was an obvious brown stain/material in all of the rotor slots.
Someone suggested it could be from excess copper in the pads. Turns out, copper is an inexpensive way to transfer heat away from ceramic pads. However it can also contaminate the friction surface on the rotor reducing friction levels over time.
I Need Good Stopping With Cold Pads: Most performance pads are designed to stop great when hot. Perhaps my situation is unique but I live 2 miles down a narrow, twisty 25 mph speed limit road that exits onto a 4 lane divided highway. After blending into traffic, in ~100 yards I make a right turn onto another rural road with traffic traveling ~65 mph behind! I make that turn very quickly with my C7, Z51 having no issues with the Carbotech 1521s - better than with the OEM pads. The Powerstops required more peddle force and did not make me feel confident achieving a high “g” stop. Expected even better braking with the Grand Sport, it was not, particularly with cold pads.
Initial Experience after switching to the Carbotech Pads: The day after the install and bedding, tried the cold pad stop, while the Powerstops were fresh in my mind. Definitely better and more confident. After 15 trips through that fast turn with cold pads the Carbotech pads are at least as good as they were on my C7 Z51! Stops are definitely superior to those with the Powerstop pads. For some of the later stops there were no cars on the rural road. I made those stops with very hard breaking as there was no risk and felt very confident.
This is a PDF on the install(s) with more details and a discussion of why California is going to limit brake pad copper to 0.5% and why Bendix, Wagner, Bosh etc now offer "copper free' pads: http://netwelding.com/Ceramic_Pads.pdf
Turn I make every day with cold brake pads. Carbotech 1521's provide the required confidence and safety.
Top pic is from a forum poster that had Powerstop pads for a year that turned his rotors brown. Bottom pic is my Grand Sport rotor with a brown residue in all slots!
You like those little stud fingers
I was thinking about getting a set.
Bought "Lug Guides" when I got the Grand Sport! Best thing since sliced bread! Need those for the wide rear wheels but make it easy to get the front tires back on as well.
I bought their jack pads as well. Another unique "made in US" product you can temporarily bolt in when visiting a dealer or tire shop for service! Don't have to wonder, as I did with my C6 or 2014 C7, IF the tech would use the 4 pads I would put on the front seat in a large clear plastic bag with a note! They are very well made, also in the US!
Funny, the pic you referenced is not mine. It is one a Forum member posted recently showing his discolored rotors after using Powerstop Z26 ceramic pads for a year! Made me notice the brown residue in all my rotor slots after only 900 miles on Powerstop Z26 pads! Removed it with a Dremel tool and rotary wire brush when I installed the Carbotech 1521 pads. Never saw it in the 2 1/2 years I had Carbotech pads on my C7 Z51 or the year I used the OEM Z51 pads! A year too long!
The Carbotech 1521 pads provide the superior cold stopping power I had been used to when I had them on my 2014 C7 Z51 for 2 1/2 years!
Also investigated his comment that it may be from copper in the pads. Found copper is an inexpensive way to provide cooling since ceramic materials do not conduct heat and can cause overheating! A number of brake pad companies have developed copper free pads that cost more to produce. Their reason for offering "copper free" has to do with brake pad copper causing ~50% of that which contaminates ground water! However excess copper can also deposit on the rotors and reduce friction over time! Details of what I found in my PDF: http://netwelding.com/Ceramic_Pads.pdf
Here are some pic on my Grand Sport with "Lug Extensions."
Rear Grand Sport with Lug Extensions. Note I put the three on the top. Works for me.
Front Grand Sport with Lug Extensions. Make it much easier to get wide wheel on Vette.
__________________
Adam Adelstein
Amp’D Autosport.com
Internet's largest retailer of Carbotech Performance Brake Pads.
PH:216-780-8825.
Email: sales@ampdautosport.com
Web Site & Direct ordering http://ampdautosport.com/
All major CC and Pay Pal accepted.
Check out Promo code:z28
Have you guys tried IronX decon spray on the brown crap? I have these pads and do not have the discoloration and have used IronX for my decon for years. I bet it would make quick work of the cooper and is Ph neutral.
^^^
Just looked it up. It eats iron. May not touch copper. In any case should not have copper deposits on the rotors or iron for that matter when using ceramic pads.
Never touched the rotors in my C7 Z51 with anything and in 2 1/2 years with Carbotech 1521s they stayed shinny. Same with the year I used the OEM pads.
Back to work Monday give me a call 216-780-8825 or order direct on line..
Adam Adelstein
Amp’D Autosport.com
Internet's largest retailer of Carbotech Performance Brake Pads.
PH:216-780-8825.
Email: sales@ampdautosport.com
Web Site & Direct ordering http://ampdautosport.com/
All major CC and Pay Pal accepted.
Check out Promo code:z28
So you need a $500 set of brake pads to feel confident making a turn on a 65mph section of public road? What do all the poor souls that don't drive world class sports car do? I love your write ups and the time you take making your very thorough pdfs but this one seems like a stretch unless I'm missing something.
To OP, glad the new pads are working out well for you. In my experience, I've used Hawk ceramics and now the Z26s on both my 16 camaro SS and GS. They stop every bit as well as the Brembos. I had seen some of the discoloration that has been mentioned early on after I swapped to the Powerstops, but I decided not to prematurely freak out, and it magically disappeared after about 1000 miles or so. The pads now have about 6K miles (rotors just over 8K) on them and they look absolutely normal in color with no appreciable wear. I drive on the street legally, but aggressively FWIW. I have to wonder if so many of these product debate threads we see here don't set people up for the almighty power of suggestion too many times.
,,, I have to wonder if so many of these product debate threads we see here don't set people up for the almighty power of suggestion too many times.
Perhaps I am unique with the need to have excellent brakes when the pads are cold! But I had ~2 1/2 years driving with Carbotech 1521 pads on my 2014 Z51 and making a fast turn 100 yards after merging into 65 mph traffic every time I leave my home! It was NOT the power of suggestion that I tossed the Powerstop Z26 pads then purchased and replaced with Carbotech 1521 street pads! Gave the Powerstops 900 miles and thought they might get better-they did not.
Should have realized when I looked at the high temp Powerstop says they are good for, 1500F! The Carbotech 1521 pads state these Street pads are good to 800F. Carbotech has a number of racing pads compounds that operate at higher temps. The Powerstop pads where fine, when they got hot, just like a racing pad should be.
The Carbotechs were better than even the OEM pads that came with my September 2013 built 2014 Z51 when both were cold. I lived with the OEM pads for about one year (a year too long considering the dust) before I installed the Carbotech 1521 pads. Got used to the better stops and less pedal pressure with the Carbotech 1521's. Have the better cold braking back now and well worth the extra cost, IMO. My Grand Sport stops even better than the C7 Z51, as it should with larger calipers and wider tires!
History with Cold HD Brake Shoes
Been a gearhead since I was 12! Recall getting metallic brakes on my first new car, a 1967 Corvair with every HD option offered, i.e. quick steering, HD suspension etc. Installed headers, cooling mods and 14 wider wheels and "low profile" Continental radial tires when +1 and "low profile" were not words anyone used!
The car had optional metallic brakes! Stopped fine when hot but were terrible when cold. Worse when you tried to stop when backing out of the garage! Drum brakes don't have the self energizing feature when stopping in reverse so it made it even worse. Recall my Uncle, who was a Service Manager at a Chevy dealer, telling me he hated metallic brakes as they came on police cars they serviced and they where always complaining about the brakes since they were hitting things when they backed up when the shoes were cold!
I also don't Track but drive aggressively so don't have the pads hot when I want to stop fast where I must each time I leave my home. I live in a rural area and also have at a number of turns I make on little traveled, some twisty roads, and Tee intersections that I use to travel the 16 miles into town!
5k miles on my Z with the Powerstops and no discoloration and for street pads, they stop just fine.
Same here, around 2100 miles since changing pads. Bronze discoloration is barely noticeable in my garage and not apparent at all outdoors. Feel is excellent and I haven't noticed linearity and pedal-force differences like the OP did. No regrets purchasing them.
Spring Mountain techs said they use Hawk pads. Put a set on my truck and they work great. The factory pads work perfectly but the dust drives me crazy. I suppose I'll put Hawk pads on the Corvette when I get motivated but motivation has been in short supply lately.
Powerstop sent me replacement pads last week and i spent 3 hrs cleaning my rotors and changing the pads. I have put about 75 miles on the new pads no discolor yet.
Powerstop sent me replacement pads last week and i spent 3 hrs cleaning my rotors and changing the pads. I have put about 75 miles on the new pads no discolor yet.
OEM ==> Carbon Tech ==> Power Stops. Happiest with the Power Stops. No disk discoloration, no noise, little dust, no more pitting of the wheels, no Corvette Tax.
The Corvette Tax comment makes me think about what I paid for the Powerstop Z26:
$125 “free deliver” from Amazon.
UPS got paid to deliver, there is no “free lunch” = > $10 (they are heavy and for my small business would have cost me much more)
Amazon makes a profit – check their stock! = >$12 (gross before handling and overhead cost)
They came from Amazon so Powerstop had delivered to Amazon = > $8
Powerstop makes profit = >$20 (gross before handling and overhead cost)
Powerstop probably had them delivered by truck from Oakland where they came in to the port in Oakland =>$3
Ships are not free nor are the longshoreman salaries in Oakland = >$3
Had to get loaded in the port in China = > $1 (they are cheap)
Had to get from the factory in China to the port = > $3 (there roads are not as good as in the US!)
Factory makes a profit in China = >$20 (gross before manufacturing labor and overhead cost)
That leaves for the raw materials = $125-$-$10-$12-$8-$20-$3-$3-$1-$3-$20 = $45 for 8 pads; 4 large for the front 3 piston calipers on my Grand Sport. That is $5.62 average per pad including the steel backs, 4 steel pad springs, steel pad pins and packaging. Not a lot to use quality materials and have their consistence checked when received.
Obviously, those cost estimates are just a SWAG, but probably not far off. Believe I was conservative on the Powerstop and Chinese factory gross profit as their costs would not leave sufficient net profit to maintain a viable business.
Since quality Hawk, Carbotech, Brembo and other ceramic pads cost much more there is a reason! They are not all charging a Corvette Tax nor have excess profits. Pads for other cars from these compnies are about the same costs.
My issues related to the cold pad braking performance and agree the pads I had stopped fine when hot. Just Sayn’
07-18-2017, 06:06 PM
Removed Powerstop Z26 Installed Carbotech 1521s
They are very well made, also in the US!
