C7DriverOnt

What I find ironic is China really putting a push on EV's , on the surface for good reason. However they currently produce electricity with 70% of their generation being coal. Still growing their coal generation, up 7% last year and they are building coal power plants around the world for other countries, many new power plants in Africa by example. So now they will have coal powered EV's? What is the point?

Don't be fooled by the BS numbers they put out, 18% renewables, that includes water/dams and nukes, they are still less than 3% solar and wind. I just looked at a study of their grid from Platts last week. Then there is India in the same situation, about 75% coal presently. You ever seen their electrical network lol Sure you're going to throw millions of EV's on that mess of spaghetti.

This is going to take a evolution , not going to be a revolution. Decades.

vetteLT193

No it isn't.

It is here for local travel. I charge off of a regular outlet with zero issue. However for long distance travel it would be a royal pain in the rear, at best, to go long distance.

Example... I just took my family to Disney. I live 270-ish miles from there. I always travel with my charger so all I need is an outlet at worst or a car charger at best. Well guess what... no charger at the hotel we were staying at (Disney resort). If I had a Tesla I'd have had to pre plan this and find a Disney hotel that has a charger (I don't know of any), stay off site (which we don't want to do), or park the car at one of the theme parks and bus to the hotel which is a huge pain. Furthermore, if I had a Tesla, I'd have to stop half way to charge for about a half hour at a supercharger station assuming I had that option on the car.


This weekend I'm taking my kids to southern GA for their football game... there are only 3 public charging stations between me and the stadium in GA. If I had an all electric car there would be no way in hell I'd take it on this trip. I'll do it in the Volt though. It's a really tough sell to get a person to buy a car that has a major range limitation. Even if 99 percent of use is local the thought of having a car that I can't hop into and go long distance in on a whim doesn't sit right. For example... let's say a hurricane is coming my way... I don't want a car that requires that much headache to evacuate.

JoesC5

Which "older Cadillac hybrids" does he own? The "hugely successful" ERL that only was available for less than three years because of "highly successful" sales numbers? Or maybe the Escalade hybrid that was in production from 2009 to 2013 before it was dropped because of **** poor sales?

Since you said he had not put gas in it in over a year, that leaves out the Escalade hybrid, so he must have purchased a $75,000 Volt(AKA ERL). Real smart guy.

pickleseimer

LOL! This brings back a recent memory. A close friend of mine had a small collection of Stanley Steamers. The antics of getting one of those steamed up and ready to travel was quite entertaining at times. These things required a couple different combustible fuels to operate, and got about 1 mpg of water. It's easy to see why they were quickly replaced by a more modern technology - my wife would not wait 30-45 minutes for the car to be ready to move out of the garage.

Nor will she wait an hour for the car to charge to go about 150 miles. The electric car era will definitely march in to our lives (and probably sooner than later), but just because the powers that be and miscellaneous others opine that it is the right thing to do, doesn't mean it is the right thing for me. I've always believed that the cheapest and one of the most compact and efficient forms of energy is still a gallon of gasoline. I look at a five-gallon container of gasoline that sits in my garage, and when I think that the energy in that can alone can push my Cruze (with me in it) from Cleveland to Cincinnati in about three hours, well I can't think of anything else as cheap, convenient, and efficient.

Now, come up with the technology that will fully charge a car in three minutes (both at a charging station and at home at a competitive cost) and be good for a range of 500 miles, then I'll be ready. Until then, it's just one more thing those that think they know what is 'good' for us will try to force on us before it's ready for the mainstream.

1SG_Ret

Personally I can see the next or perhaps the following) will have an electric assist included in the car. If GM and the Corvette wants to sty competitive w/ the other's they have to consider adding some type of electric assist to the car.

I see a Turbo 6 w/ a couple hundred HP electric assist in a future Corvette.

Total electric is a way's off IMO due to battery technology and big oil not being into battery or electricity production. Likely Hydrogen fuel cells will be the way of future cars so big oil can figure a way to charge us for water. One only has to look at Tesla (the man, not the car) and his vision for free electricity for the masses and Edison and J.P Morgan wanting a way to meter and charge for it.

JoesC5

What the treehuggers refuse to accept is that an ICE vehicle is great for all driving conditions, whereas the EV is very limited.

JoesC5

One of the newest cars(all new design) on the market is the Acura NSX. Honda/Acura wanted it to "showcase" their latest technology, so it's an electrical assist design(three electric motors and a large battery in addition to the ICE). Unlike the ultra limited production, high priced Ford GT, the NSX was designed for the masses. But, if the NSX does not sale well, it is not competitive. Same will be true for the Corvette, if it has "electrical assist".

So far, the NSX not been a sales success. I believe that if they had left out the three heavy electric motors, the heavy battery and all the heavy wiring, they would have had a mid engine car that weighed 400 pounds less, and coupled with the 500 HP TT 3.5L V6, would have had excellent performance, and I believe would be selling better, as it would also have a lower price tag.

The only thing they gained with the 'electrical assist' design was a better city gas mileage(and I doubt anyone is buying one for only that reason).

sunsalem

I think here is where we are these days:

LT4CMG

US Senate panel approves self-driving car legislation

Published October 04, 2017 Industries Reuters


The U.S. Senate Commerce Committee on Wednesday unanimously approved a bill to speed self-driving cars to market without human controls and bar states from imposing regulatory road blocks.


The bill still must be approved by the full Senate. The U.S. House passed a similar version last month unanimously. General Motors Co, Alphabet Inc, Ford Motor Co and others have lobbied for the landmark legislation. Despite some Republicans complaint, the Senate bill does not include large commercial trucks after labor unions raised safety and employment concerns.

(Reporting by David Shepardson)

C7DriverOnt

Say what you want but here is the reality...Denmark was held up as a model for other countries with their high EV penetration, don't forget gas/diesal is $6 a gallon in Denmark...China sells as many EV's as the rest of the world combined , except when they pull back on incentives

Denmark EV Sales Plummet With Tax Break Elimination

Sales of Electrically Chargeable Vehicles (EVs and plug-in hybrids) in Denmark are down 60.5 percent in the first quarter of 2017. For reference, car sales in the same category are up an average of 30 percent in the EU with Sweden leading the way with a sales boost of almost 80 percent.


http://www.thedrive.com/news/11089/d...ak-elimination



China Faces 74% Drop In January EV Sales As Incentive Uncertainty Rules

China’s plug-in electric vehicle sales got off to a very rocky start in 2017.

In fact, January results plunged by 74% year-over-year…the kind of drop we are not accustomed to seeing anywhere else in the world when it comes to EV sales.

China

In total only 5,682 NEVs were sold, while production decreased by 69.1% to 6,889.

Especially interesting is collapse of plug-in hybrid sales, down to just 704 (down 90%), while BEVs noted 4,978 deliveries.

In 2016, China logged sales of 507,000 vehicles, missing an over ambitious target of 700,000. For this year, the only slightly higher target of 800,000 deliveries indicates even the government knows there is trouble brewing…but with January’s poor result, that number looks to already be unobtainable.

Why the sales drop? Uncertainty and the pullback of incentives.

Sales falling as incentives decreased by 20% according to Chinese sources, while there is even stronger hit coming from government:

https://insideevs.com/china-faces-74...rtainty-rules/

C7DriverOnt

Don't confuse self driving vehicles with EV's. Most self driving vehicles being tested are gas powered.

mschuyler

Yes, it is. It's already in your garage right on the wall. Long distance drives are not the issue. Why people fixate on long distance as a reason electrics aren't viable is a mystery. Most trips are of short duration--to work and back. We're not talking YOUR driving habits here. We're talking AVERAGE driving habits. The daily driver, the commuter car, is ripe for electric. Statistically speaking, most everyone is within the range of electric vehicles today for most of their driving needs. If you drive hundreds of miles a day every day, well, I agree, electrics are not for you. But you really don't count.

It is true electrics aren't selling well today. The reason is cheap gas and a lack of choices. Do you really think those two issues will never change? We're one international crisis away from gas doubling in price. it wouldn't take much. And there's this climate change stuff. I don't buy off on the lies about climate change, but the world as a whole does, and that is going to drive public policy to the point that people like Governor Moonbeam are publicly talking about banning ICE altogether. The bottom line here is that there are a whole lot of strong 'incentives' to move to electric and the objections are weak and near-sighted.

Resistance is futile. You WILL be assimilated.

LT4CMG

Not at all, I get your point. I posted this in response to “paranoid people shaking fists at clouds”. The joy of driving may be a thing of the past in the next 2 decades.

Kent1999

You hit on the most important reason EVs aren't selling: for the "average buyer", EVs have disadvantages (higher cost, limited range, long recharge times) that are not offset by advantages (no gasoline usage). It really is that simple. Bump gas up to a Euro-style $15/gal, and that equation changes. Take away the tax incentives and it would change again. If the "average buyer" has to choose between a $20k Corolla commuter and a $40K Prius commuter (its cost without the taxpayer supports), it doesn't take too much deep thinking to see the likely outcome.

But you *are* right - we will be assimilated. Nanny State politics will prevail, as more and more people desire the mindless ease of servitude ("Treat us like your children!") to the mental and physical effort required to be a self-reliant, free, and independent people.

Ernest_T

Yeah, but here in Texas, that electric Vette would be recharged by a coal fired electric plant.

Rave

The biggest issue with EV's right now is the lengthy time it takes to charge their battery pack. Even at a Tesla SuperCharger station they're looking at 30 minutes to gain approximately 130 miles of range. Compare that to a gas car popping in and out of gas station in 5 minutes or so, for 250-300 miles or more of range.


While I don't see an all electric Vette coming in the near future, what we may eventually see is an EV/Gas hybrid Vette, something similar to the drive train in the Ferrari LaFerrari (above). Electric power to produce instant torque off the line, then as the rpm and torque curves build on the gas engine, have it seamlessly transition to gas with EV adding to the hp. That would be the best of all worlds and designed correctly it would be an awesome machine, although finding a place for the battery pack might be tricky.

LanceVette

Maybe our "old Corvettes" will be worth big bucks in the near future. Hold on to 'em.

C7DriverOnt

From a Cdn blog on last years EV sales... in Canada EV's currently are .06% of the fleet , sales have stalled dramatically despite the big subsidies.



Sales numbers south of the border, though larger, paint a similar picture. While, again, sales of BEVs and PHEVs have increased in recent years, hybrid sales have plummeted from a peak of 3.0 per cent market share in 2013 to barely 2.0 per cent of the American market in 2016. Add it all up and, according to greencarreports.com, electrified vehicles accounted for 2.85 per cent of all American auto sales significantly less than the 3.2 per cent they captured in 2013. In the United States, it’s hard not to conclude that the increase in EV sales is just hybrid intenders moving into pure electric vehicles.

Essentially, what the numbers seem to be telling us is that the number of consumers willing to buy a car simply for its reduced environmental impact has peaked. And poor electric car sales aren’t the sole proof that, beyond the early adopters, the entire emissions-reduction movement has stalled, either; SUVs and pickups seem to reach record sales every month. As a result, despite the increase in the number of electrified vehicles on the market and model-by-model improvements in fuel consumption, the average fuel economy of cars sold in the U.S. has declined steadily since 2014.

It also seems like automakers are getting increasingly desperate in their quest for the elusive electric magic bullet (they, after all, need to sell EVs to meet American Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards). Honda recently announced its Clarity BEV with but 120 kilometres of range because, as the heretofore successful automaker plainly admits, it’s currently impossible to make a price-point-sensitive EV that is profitable, roomy and has long range.

Indeed, except for an (unlikely) spike in fuel prices, it would appear that little short of the proverbial gun to the head is going to move mainstream consumers into electric vehicles. A number of governments — Germany and The Netherlands, among others — are considering just such steps, proposing outright bans of internal combustion powered automobiles. Such dictatorial mandates may prove effective, but I don’t think it’s the revolution everyone has been talking about.

mschuyler

The average commute today is 16 miles. A "mega commute" is 50 miles. Both these are well within the range of current electric vehicles. One of the problems we are having is looking at electric vehicles from today's perspective. We look at the economics TODAY and conclude it is not cost-effective with few choices. We also freak out at long distance travel when that isn't a real consideration. We're looking at average commute per citizen, not cross-country trips. Here are te factors:

1. Gas is going to get more expensive over time. Supply and demand in the Third World and "emerging" countries and tax policy all will have a hand in this.

2. Solar power is going to get exponentially cheaper. Coal-fired electric plants are dead. It's all over but the crying. Saying, 'but, but EVs get their power from coal!" is misunderstanding the issue and downright misleading.

3. the Global Warming hysteria (Now THERE's some emotional hype to deal with) will drive national policy. Al Gore thinks CO2 will kill us all. He's wrong, but it doesn't matter. There will be increasing pressure to get off fossil fuels, and that spells death to the ICE.

Now I hear a lot of Big Bad Nanny Government running our lives and we're just sheeple with less and less freedom and i think, Geez, these people must be listening to Infowars and Above Top Secret too frequently. I told you about my cousin wit the cheapest Tesla Model S who has no problem with long distance travel. He's retired on a very modest income, but he had a vision to free himself of the grid. The other half of that story is that he has solar panels on his roof. He recharges his Tesla with solar power and also runs his house on it--in the Pacific Northwest, poster child of cloudy skies and rain. Basically, he's off the grid.

Now who is "freer" from government control? You, or him? While you are out there complaining that electric vehicles can't possibly work for you, he's gone and done it. And so could you if you wanted to.

Kent1999

Yes, exactly. We are looking at it from TODAY'S perspective. Again, I don't think most reasonable people would state that it won't work sometime in the future, just that it isn't cost/effort advantageous for Joe Everyman TODAY.

Maybe you're referencing someone else's post?

The question is NOT "Is it *possible* to utilize an EV for commuting/normal everyday car duties today?" Of course it is, given enough time and effort, almost anything is 'possible'.

The question is "Are the EV benefits worth the trouble and expense that exist with it TODAY ?" You said it -- we could make it work "if you wanted to". Problem is -- what EV benefits outweigh the extra effort and costs, and would make me "want to" TODAY, as the situation exists right now?