Nail in run flat
02-22-2018, 09:07 AM
#62
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '15-'16,'18
Did you have tire insurance? I see all these posts about Discount Tire repairing tires at no cost. Unfortunately, no stores anywhere near me.
02-22-2018, 09:11 AM
#63
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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There's a reason behind the logic outlined in the bolded part of the quote above.
Dismounting and remounting a wide run flat tire is an absolute bitch of a job to get right. Even the most experienced people will rip a bead from time to time, even if they install the patch properly.
All a tire patch does is seal the tire from leaks. Its not structural. Knowing this, you could say a plug installed from the outside of the tire is just as good, as long as its not leaking. This reality combined with the probability of tire damage is why some people just use a plug from the outside.
Dismounting and remounting a wide run flat tire is an absolute bitch of a job to get right. Even the most experienced people will rip a bead from time to time, even if they install the patch properly.
All a tire patch does is seal the tire from leaks. Its not structural. Knowing this, you could say a plug installed from the outside of the tire is just as good, as long as its not leaking. This reality combined with the probability of tire damage is why some people just use a plug from the outside.
You could be right, a plug may work fine but I prefer it is done right with a plug patch as more surface area to assure it doen’t result in a slow leak. Have had several on Vettes and the wife’s Porsche Cayenne and BMW SUV run flats repaired with a plug/patch and all have worked fine.
This Firestone Dealer is the best in town and will not use simple plugs.
Last edited by JerryU; 02-22-2018 at 09:13 AM.
02-22-2018, 09:15 AM
#64
Race Director
Yep, there is a reason and I talk with the shop manager and make sure the best tech gets the job and Tell him I can wait! I also stand outside the Service bay and chat with the Tech. Recall one who said sorry this is taking so long. I told him to take all the time he needs and there will be a nice tip at the end! They have a touch less tire machine but it needs experiance, especially for the 335/20’s on the rear!
You could be right, a plug may work fine but I prefer it is done right with a plug patch as more surface area to assure it doen’t result in a slow leak. Have had several on Vettes and the wife’s Porsche Cayenne and BMW SUV run flats repaired with a plug/patch and all have worked fine.
This Firestone Dealer is the best in town and will not use simple plugs.
You could be right, a plug may work fine but I prefer it is done right with a plug patch as more surface area to assure it doen’t result in a slow leak. Have had several on Vettes and the wife’s Porsche Cayenne and BMW SUV run flats repaired with a plug/patch and all have worked fine.
This Firestone Dealer is the best in town and will not use simple plugs.
02-22-2018, 09:17 AM
#65
I’m sharing my story not as an example of what should be done, but as an example of how tough run flats are. I have always repaired my own tires with a $7 plug kit. I got a piece of metal in my rear tire with only 800 miles on the clock. This was in my base. I drove home with zero pressure about 12 miles on the freeway. Luckily this was late at night, so I had no issues limping home. On inspection of the tire, I found a hole big enough to stick my pincky through. I plugged it with a double rope of plug with glue and figured it would last until I could get a new tire. The tire lasted 32k additional miles, including four 12.0 passes down the 1/4 mile at Sonoma and a Thunderhill trackday with lots of sliding! Picked up two more nails in the same tire. All plugged with my $7 kit. Really tough tires!
Last edited by rb185afm; 02-22-2018 at 09:23 AM.
02-22-2018, 09:25 AM
#67
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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I’m sharing my story not as an example of what should be done, but as an example of how tough run flats are. I have always repaired my own tires with a $7 plug kit. I got a piece of metal in my rear tire with only 800 miles on the clock. This was in my base. I drove home with zero pressure about 12 miles on the freeway. Luckily this was late at night, so I had no issues limping home. On inspection of the tire, I found a hole big enough to stick my pincky through. I plugged it with a double rope of plug with glue and figured it would last until I could get a new tire. The tire lasted 32k additional miles, including four 12.0 passes down the 1/4 mile at Sonoma and a Thunderhill trackday with lots of sliding! Picked up two more nails in the same tire. All plugged with my $7 kit. Really tough tires!
02-22-2018, 09:53 AM
#68
Tried that, used up all my luck though.
Note: the track day was only because I completely forgot. I would have never done that on purpose.
I have been plugging tires, including my crotch rockets, for 25 years. I have never had a single failure, regardless of how I treated them. Never used a patch. Can anyone show documented failure from a plug? I have never heard of one.
Note: the track day was only because I completely forgot. I would have never done that on purpose.
I have been plugging tires, including my crotch rockets, for 25 years. I have never had a single failure, regardless of how I treated them. Never used a patch. Can anyone show documented failure from a plug? I have never heard of one.
Last edited by rb185afm; 02-22-2018 at 09:59 AM.
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JerryU (02-22-2018)
02-22-2018, 10:39 AM
#70
Moderator
Actually, as I responded earlier, it is not really an issue with the plug failing. There are two potential issues with just plugging from the outside. 1) How do you determine that there is not structural damage caused by whatever punctured the tire? 2) How can you be certain that there will be no moisture getting into the punctured area from the inside that could cause the cords to deteriorate over time? A proper repair as outlined by both sources I gave above eliminates these potential issues.
02-22-2018, 11:28 AM
#71
Le Mans Master
Zymurgy,
Please take my response as respectful to yours, mainly pointing out problems I've had with repair services in the past:
1. Visual inspection for structural damage. I've never had any tech ever point out internal damage that changed a "repair" status to a "replace".
2. Water intrusion into the steel belts. I've heard this one a lot, but you have that problem with a patch as well. Water internal to the tire isn't an issue; the amount of water vapor, even in humid environments, isn't enough to condense out and cause corrosion. Besides, what do we do about all the things that penetrate the external carcass into the steel belts, which stops the intrusion before it gets to the internal carcass?
Now, on to my problems. Primary issue I've had is bead damage (well, really rubber damage that exposes the bead). Also the occasional wheel rim scratching, but that's just cosmetic.
As I've mentioned above, you have the luxury of living in an area that has a lot of resources available to you. I don't (anymore). There's literally NO one around here that wants to deal with 20" with 30 profile tires. They don't have the tools, nor the expertise. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do when I need to buy tires; I may be driving the 250 miles to the DFW area to get to a Discount Tire.
Have a good one,
Mike
Please take my response as respectful to yours, mainly pointing out problems I've had with repair services in the past:
1. Visual inspection for structural damage. I've never had any tech ever point out internal damage that changed a "repair" status to a "replace".
2. Water intrusion into the steel belts. I've heard this one a lot, but you have that problem with a patch as well. Water internal to the tire isn't an issue; the amount of water vapor, even in humid environments, isn't enough to condense out and cause corrosion. Besides, what do we do about all the things that penetrate the external carcass into the steel belts, which stops the intrusion before it gets to the internal carcass?
Now, on to my problems. Primary issue I've had is bead damage (well, really rubber damage that exposes the bead). Also the occasional wheel rim scratching, but that's just cosmetic.
As I've mentioned above, you have the luxury of living in an area that has a lot of resources available to you. I don't (anymore). There's literally NO one around here that wants to deal with 20" with 30 profile tires. They don't have the tools, nor the expertise. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do when I need to buy tires; I may be driving the 250 miles to the DFW area to get to a Discount Tire.
Have a good one,
Mike
02-22-2018, 12:58 PM
#72
Moderator
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VetteDrmr (02-22-2018)
02-22-2018, 04:57 PM
#73
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No, he is the guy in charge of selling new tires!
Seriously, that tire CAN be patched safely as long as the hole is not in a sidewall
02-22-2018, 08:15 PM
#74
Today I put on my Carbotech brake pads. While the right rear was off the car, I noticed a piece of shiny metal in the middle of the tire. Sure enough, a fricken' nail in my brand new 2019 Grand Sport with just over 100 miles on it. Fortunately I had the wheel and tire hazard insurance. When I took it to my dealer I thought that they would plug and patch. I was pleasantly surprised when they said to maintain the speed rating, they would have to replace the tire. (I did a happy dance in my head and will return tomorrow to have my tire replaced)
Last edited by iTom; 02-22-2018 at 08:16 PM.
02-22-2018, 08:18 PM
#75
Race Director
Today I put on my Carbotech brake pads. While the right rear was off the car, I noticed a piece of shiny metal in the middle of the tire. Sure enough, a fricken' nail in my brand new 2019 Grand Sport with just over 100 miles on it. Fortunately I had the wheel and tire hazard insurance. When I took it to my dealer I thought that they would plug and patch. I was pleasantly surprised when they said to maintain the speed rating, they would have to replace the tire. (I did a happy dance in my head and will return tomorrow to have my tire replaced)
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iTom (02-22-2018)
02-22-2018, 08:38 PM
#76
Race Director
I've plugged both rear tires. The Slime plug kit cost a couple bucks at Walmart. 5,000 miles and no issues.
02-22-2018, 08:47 PM
#77
02-22-2018, 10:23 PM
#79
If I may, the "50-mile" figure that still gets bandied about has very little to do with C7 tires.
That was the original figure that GM and GY came up with as a reasonable compromise between what the tire was capable of and how far GM dealers were apart. They determined that the tire could be safely fixed when driven at ZP for 50 miles at less than 50 mph and the available dealerships were at the most ~100 miles apart (nevermind that at the time, most dealerships were not equipped to deal with the tires) . This also did not really figure in GY dealers, who were even later in adopting machines that could deal with RFs.
Now, with the C7, Michelin has decided that the tire can have one fix (patch/plug from the inside) if not driven at ZP. The reasoning with this The tires are now, and always have been able to drive much further than the 50 miles at ZP to get you where you need to go safely, but no real way to determine how much structural damage has been done when driving at ZP.
The lawyers say there is no way to know, but the tires are capable of driving much further than 50 miles to safety, regardless.
That was the original figure that GM and GY came up with as a reasonable compromise between what the tire was capable of and how far GM dealers were apart. They determined that the tire could be safely fixed when driven at ZP for 50 miles at less than 50 mph and the available dealerships were at the most ~100 miles apart (nevermind that at the time, most dealerships were not equipped to deal with the tires) . This also did not really figure in GY dealers, who were even later in adopting machines that could deal with RFs.
Now, with the C7, Michelin has decided that the tire can have one fix (patch/plug from the inside) if not driven at ZP. The reasoning with this The tires are now, and always have been able to drive much further than the 50 miles at ZP to get you where you need to go safely, but no real way to determine how much structural damage has been done when driving at ZP.
The lawyers say there is no way to know, but the tires are capable of driving much further than 50 miles to safety, regardless.
Last edited by owc6; 02-23-2018 at 08:48 AM.
02-23-2018, 07:26 AM
#80
Race Director
If possible and the tire puncture allows it, re-inflate the tire ASAP so that when you drive it to a tire store, it won't be damaged due to low or no air pressure. Most punctures still will have the nail or screw in the tire to keep it to a rather slow leak. Driving Zero Pressure should be due to a no choice due to an inability to re-inflate the tire due to location or the nature of the puncture itself.