CEL faults Bank
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CEL faults
This morning when I started my Z the Check Engine Light stayed on. I shut it off and restarted it a couple of times but still remained on. When I checked the codes it said the following:
1)PO15B O2 sensor Delayed Response Lean to Rich( Bank 1 Sensor 1)
2) P0036 Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater Control Circuit Bank 1 Sensor 2
3)P0037 Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater Cintrol Curcuit Low Bank 1 Sensor 2.
4)P0056 Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater Control Circuit Bank 1 Sensor 2
5)P0057 Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater Control Circuit Low Bank 2 Sensor 2
Back in November LG Motorsports installed Long Tube Headers and Catless x pipe. They tuned out the oxygen sensors and have never had a CEL until now. What do you think has happened? Other than annoying me to look at that light do you think it will damage anything to drive it? My dealer is about 30 miles away.
Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me. I called LG but being Saturday I didn’t get any answer:-(
1)PO15B O2 sensor Delayed Response Lean to Rich( Bank 1 Sensor 1)
2) P0036 Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater Control Circuit Bank 1 Sensor 2
3)P0037 Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater Cintrol Curcuit Low Bank 1 Sensor 2.
4)P0056 Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater Control Circuit Bank 1 Sensor 2
5)P0057 Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater Control Circuit Low Bank 2 Sensor 2
Back in November LG Motorsports installed Long Tube Headers and Catless x pipe. They tuned out the oxygen sensors and have never had a CEL until now. What do you think has happened? Other than annoying me to look at that light do you think it will damage anything to drive it? My dealer is about 30 miles away.
Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me. I called LG but being Saturday I didn’t get any answer:-(
Last edited by Kansasz06; Apr 21, 2018 at 09:16 PM. Reason: Typing Correction
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This sounds exactly what happened to me in my 2018 a couple of weeks ago, including all but one of the same codes (didn't see PO15B). However, my car is bone stock, the complication in your case is that you've had the car tuned. Mine was fixed with a replacement 02 sensor in bank 1.
You don't say what year your car is, but Chevrolet tech support said they have had problems with 02 sensors recently.
Good luck.
You don't say what year your car is, but Chevrolet tech support said they have had problems with 02 sensors recently.
Good luck.
Last edited by Foosh; Apr 21, 2018 at 06:20 PM.
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From: Lansing MI
I would start by checking the fuse for the o2 heater circuits. I cant remember exactly which one it is, so you will have to check them all or read the manual. IF the fuse is blown, you can just replace it and see what happens, it may or may not blow right away. IF it does then you will have to find the shorted wiring or shorted sensor. IF it does not, then you may still have a bad sensor or wiring problem that is acting up intermittently. IF its not blown, then your going to have to test for power at each of the o2 heater circuits, which means you need the wiring schematic. Maybe someone can post one.
As far as tuning out the o2 sensors, I'm thinking something wasn't explained right or was misunderstood when you were talking with them about it. The o2 sensor readings are critical for proper fuel control and its hard to believe they would be eliminated on anything besides maybe a max effort drag car. Even then its doubtful. It should be noted this would only apply to the bank one sensor one, as the sensor two position is a cat converter monitoring sensor and not fuel control, although I would completely expect the heater circuits to be on the same fuse.
As far as tuning out the o2 sensors, I'm thinking something wasn't explained right or was misunderstood when you were talking with them about it. The o2 sensor readings are critical for proper fuel control and its hard to believe they would be eliminated on anything besides maybe a max effort drag car. Even then its doubtful. It should be noted this would only apply to the bank one sensor one, as the sensor two position is a cat converter monitoring sensor and not fuel control, although I would completely expect the heater circuits to be on the same fuse.
Last edited by PatternDayTrader; Apr 21, 2018 at 08:40 PM.
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From: Lansing MI
I should also add that none of it sounds particularly difficult to properly diagnose, and it will probably be relatively inexpensive to fix.
So that's good.
My only concern with driving it would be the po15b code. While its not indicating a lean fuel trim condition in and of itself, the fact its not properly switching form lean to rich could mean its running to lean, and not just a slow sensor because of the inop heater circuit. Ideally, you would not drive it, without verifying fuel trim numbers first, even though the probability of an actual fuel delivery problem is very low. Knowing this, if you don't have far to go to get to the shop, and you do drive it, then just open the throttle the least amount possible to get the car going up to speed ect ... In terms of probabilities, its most likely fine to drive.
So that's good.
My only concern with driving it would be the po15b code. While its not indicating a lean fuel trim condition in and of itself, the fact its not properly switching form lean to rich could mean its running to lean, and not just a slow sensor because of the inop heater circuit. Ideally, you would not drive it, without verifying fuel trim numbers first, even though the probability of an actual fuel delivery problem is very low. Knowing this, if you don't have far to go to get to the shop, and you do drive it, then just open the throttle the least amount possible to get the car going up to speed ect ... In terms of probabilities, its most likely fine to drive.
Last edited by PatternDayTrader; Apr 21, 2018 at 09:38 PM.
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Thanks for all the advice. Could someone tell me what number or where to find the fuse to the O2 sensor heaters? I can’t find it on the fuse compartment lid :-(:-(
Last edited by Kansasz06; Apr 21, 2018 at 10:28 PM. Reason: Type correction
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Just FYI, when I had virtually all of the same codes a couple of weeks ago, there were no blown fuses in my car. It was a faulty 02 sensor, which the dealership never found, but Chevrolet Tech Support told them to replace it, and that cured the problem.
Last edited by Foosh; Apr 21, 2018 at 11:41 PM.
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That’s encouraging, thanks for letting me know.
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I would start by checking the fuse for the o2 heater circuits. I cant remember exactly which one it is, so you will have to check them all or read the manual. IF the fuse is blown, you can just replace it and see what happens, it may or may not blow right away. IF it does then you will have to find the shorted wiring or shorted sensor. IF it does not, then you may still have a bad sensor or wiring problem that is acting up intermittently. IF its not blown, then your going to have to test for power at each of the o2 heater circuits, which means you need the wiring schematic. Maybe someone can post one.
As far as tuning out the o2 sensors, I'm thinking something wasn't explained right or was misunderstood when you were talking with them about it. The o2 sensor readings are critical for proper fuel control and its hard to believe they would be eliminated on anything besides maybe a max effort drag car. Even then its doubtful. It should be noted this would only apply to the bank one sensor one, as the sensor two position is a cat converter monitoring sensor and not fuel control, although I would completely expect the heater circuits to be on the same fuse.
As far as tuning out the o2 sensors, I'm thinking something wasn't explained right or was misunderstood when you were talking with them about it. The o2 sensor readings are critical for proper fuel control and its hard to believe they would be eliminated on anything besides maybe a max effort drag car. Even then its doubtful. It should be noted this would only apply to the bank one sensor one, as the sensor two position is a cat converter monitoring sensor and not fuel control, although I would completely expect the heater circuits to be on the same fuse.
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On an OEM LT engine, there are 4 02 sensors. Two are located pre-cat on each side of the engine in the exhaust manifold (bank 1 and bank 2), and 2 are post-cat, one on each side (bank 1 and bank 2). They communicate with the PCM to ensure proper mixture and emissions. Since you have both headers and a cat delete, you may have eliminated all 4, although I don't know if the headers keep the 2 in the pre-cat exhaust stream.
Your problem may very well be the tune did not take care of your your 02 sensor delete in a way that satisfies what the PCM is looking for. I don't think I'd start with a dealer, given what you've done to the car, but head back to your tuner. A trip to the dealer could cost you a powertrain warranty block, although that would probably happen anyway if you ever have an engine problem.
My car is completely OEM.
Your problem may very well be the tune did not take care of your your 02 sensor delete in a way that satisfies what the PCM is looking for. I don't think I'd start with a dealer, given what you've done to the car, but head back to your tuner. A trip to the dealer could cost you a powertrain warranty block, although that would probably happen anyway if you ever have an engine problem.
My car is completely OEM.
Last edited by Foosh; Apr 22, 2018 at 01:57 AM.
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From: Lansing MI
On an OEM LT engine, there are 4 02 sensors. Two are located pre-cat on each side of the engine in the exhaust manifold (bank 1 and bank 2), and 2 are post-cat, one on each side (bank 1 and bank 2). They communicate with the PCM to ensure proper mixture and emissions. Since you have both headers and a cat delete, you may have eliminated all 4, although I don't know if the headers keep the 2 in the pre-cat exhaust stream.
I would add that it would be very unlikely the pre cat sensors have been eliminated. IF they are, then I would be buying another set of headers that has the bung welded into the collectors so they can be installed. I seriously doubt that is the case, because those are the sensors for fuel control. The post cat sensors only monitor the efficiency of the converter, so they can be removed without causing a problem.
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Please excuse my ignorance but would someone please tell me what the sensors are that were in the xpipes by the catalytic converters on the original exhaust. The exhaust has no cats. So those sensors, whatever they are called, are not in the car anymore. I thought they were O2 sensors, but evidently not.
The issue I have in your situation is the PO15b code which refers to the pre converter sensor slow response time, because that (in theory) should be the only code with any meaning. Although it makes perfect sense if the heating element is ruined, or the fuse is blown. The purpose of the o2 heating element is to warm up the sensor as fast as possible on a cold start, and to keep it hot during times of extended idle, such as waiting in a drive thru line or something similar. The point of all of this is you have one code that has to be considered valid. The rest are probably imaginary due to the fact the sensors are not even there (according to your posts about having been eliminated).
I would be totally blown away if somehow all the of the o2 sensors have actually been removed from your car. I would also be pissed as hell. You might as well bolt a carburetor on it.
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They were o2 sensors that monitor catalytic converter activity, and I would think those are the sensors that the tune intended to eliminate self testing for.
The issue I have in your situation is the PO15b code which refers to the pre converter sensor slow response time, because that (in theory) should be the only code with any meaning. Although it makes perfect sense if the heating element is ruined, or the fuse is blown. The purpose of the o2 heating element is to warm up the sensor as fast as possible on a cold start, and to keep it hot during times of extended idle, such as waiting in a drive thru line or something similar. The point of all of this is you have one code that has to be considered valid. The rest are probably imaginary due to the fact the sensors are not even there (according to your posts about having been eliminated).
I would be totally blown away if somehow all the of the o2 sensors have actually been removed from your car. I would also be pissed as hell. You might as well bolt a carburetor on it.
The issue I have in your situation is the PO15b code which refers to the pre converter sensor slow response time, because that (in theory) should be the only code with any meaning. Although it makes perfect sense if the heating element is ruined, or the fuse is blown. The purpose of the o2 heating element is to warm up the sensor as fast as possible on a cold start, and to keep it hot during times of extended idle, such as waiting in a drive thru line or something similar. The point of all of this is you have one code that has to be considered valid. The rest are probably imaginary due to the fact the sensors are not even there (according to your posts about having been eliminated).
I would be totally blown away if somehow all the of the o2 sensors have actually been removed from your car. I would also be pissed as hell. You might as well bolt a carburetor on it.
Thanks again for taking your time to help me.
Roger
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Bank 1, Sensor 1, is the pre-cat sensor in the exhaust manifold on the same side as the #1 cylinder. Bank 1, Sensor 2 would be the post-cat sensor on the same side. Bank 2 is the other side.
What is interesting is that you are getting mostly Sensor 2 (post-cat) codes, and they're not there. For whatever reasons, the PCM thinks something is wrong with the missing O2 sensors.
It still could be a bad O2 sensor, most likely Sensor 1, Bank 1, which you did get a code (PO15b) for, and that may have triggered all the other codes for the missing sensors. If that's the cause, it's a simple 45-minute replacement.
Curiously enough, that's the same sensor that failed on my car, and my theory is consistent w/ what PatternDayTrader said above.
What is interesting is that you are getting mostly Sensor 2 (post-cat) codes, and they're not there. For whatever reasons, the PCM thinks something is wrong with the missing O2 sensors.
It still could be a bad O2 sensor, most likely Sensor 1, Bank 1, which you did get a code (PO15b) for, and that may have triggered all the other codes for the missing sensors. If that's the cause, it's a simple 45-minute replacement.
Curiously enough, that's the same sensor that failed on my car, and my theory is consistent w/ what PatternDayTrader said above.
Last edited by Foosh; Apr 22, 2018 at 03:56 PM.
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Just an update on my CEL. Took the car to my local dealer on Monday. They checked it out and determined the Bank 1 Sensor 1 was the problem. Exactly what PaternDayTrader and Foosh said:-). They had to order the sensor, and wouldn’t you know on Tuesday the wrong one came in:-(:-(. The correct came in this morning and I had the car back by 9:00 am . Runs great and no CEL:-):-). Many thanks to everyone that contributed advice and information to guide me in the right direction and relive all of the anxiety I was feeling. Personally want to thank PDT And Foosh for their time and help. This is a great forum I hope some day I can contribute something as useful as some of the other members on here. FYI the total cost was $285.00. I was pleased with that. The next time I will by the sensor and do it myself.
Roger
Roger