Thoughts on Spring Mountain Advanced Driving School (and video)
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Thoughts on Spring Mountain Advanced Driving School (and video)
I haven't seen much here about it.
I am not the best driver in the world, but I was a bit concerned if it was worth my while having done a number of HPDE. Here are my opinions.
Bottom line/Cliff Notes:
I had a blast and definitely learned a ton. I'd say it's actually hard to not learn and have fun unless you're approaching a mid pack racer. then maybe you're a bit above it. I drive in advanced drive groups regularly and am a pretty good HPDE driver. It's fairly rare I get passed, and I had a great time.
Longer version
I own a Grand Sport, but I opted for a Z51. They just credit you about $1600 towards the Level II. GS and Z07 cost more than Z51 (a lot more). I went Z51. I'm actually glad because I had a bad run off and I didn't damage anything. If I had a splitter or side skirts, at that track I'd be paying for them and maybe more. There are big rocks all over the runoff.
It started out painfully elementary. We practiced downshifting with rev-match. I was about ready to ask for a refund. I still don't understand this exercise.
Then it quickly became "advanced." We did a lot of lead follow, but I didn't mind because it was a pretty good pace, especially for someone who hasn't driven the course. They separated us all into groups based on our speed from the first session, so no one was much slower than anyone else. The instructors just drove faster if you got faster so it was a lot like open lapping except you can't pass.
They would talk to you through the radio in your car (they have a CB type system rigged im there). It's fine, and pretty good, but Jesus fawk, it's hard to concentrate on driving while there is someone CONSTANTLY critiquing your while the exhaust is WOT.
This is probably my biggest complaint, which isn't really that big of a deal. I'm not even sure what the alternative is- maybe watch your video with you after and cut down the chatting while driving by a bit. It's a very busy and technical track so it's hard to concentrate on actually driving.
Other than that, instructors were pretty good. Some were definitely better at teaching than others- all were very knowledgeable, patient and polite. I went off once and didnt really get any good explanation but "you braked too late" Well no ****. I went home and watched video for about an hour and eventually figured it out (their map lies. Don't power between 6 and 7 if you do 6 correctly). I think this could be improved a bit more.
Track layout and surface was top notch. I really enjoyed it.
Video
Here's my video chasing a Z07 in my Z51. He had the fastest Z07 of the class and his best was about 0.10 sec faster than my best lap. A guy with a GSZ07 was about 3/4 sec faster than me. He was pretty smooth too.
I am not the best driver in the world, but I was a bit concerned if it was worth my while having done a number of HPDE. Here are my opinions.
Bottom line/Cliff Notes:
I had a blast and definitely learned a ton. I'd say it's actually hard to not learn and have fun unless you're approaching a mid pack racer. then maybe you're a bit above it. I drive in advanced drive groups regularly and am a pretty good HPDE driver. It's fairly rare I get passed, and I had a great time.
Longer version
I own a Grand Sport, but I opted for a Z51. They just credit you about $1600 towards the Level II. GS and Z07 cost more than Z51 (a lot more). I went Z51. I'm actually glad because I had a bad run off and I didn't damage anything. If I had a splitter or side skirts, at that track I'd be paying for them and maybe more. There are big rocks all over the runoff.
It started out painfully elementary. We practiced downshifting with rev-match. I was about ready to ask for a refund. I still don't understand this exercise.
Then it quickly became "advanced." We did a lot of lead follow, but I didn't mind because it was a pretty good pace, especially for someone who hasn't driven the course. They separated us all into groups based on our speed from the first session, so no one was much slower than anyone else. The instructors just drove faster if you got faster so it was a lot like open lapping except you can't pass.
They would talk to you through the radio in your car (they have a CB type system rigged im there). It's fine, and pretty good, but Jesus fawk, it's hard to concentrate on driving while there is someone CONSTANTLY critiquing your while the exhaust is WOT.
This is probably my biggest complaint, which isn't really that big of a deal. I'm not even sure what the alternative is- maybe watch your video with you after and cut down the chatting while driving by a bit. It's a very busy and technical track so it's hard to concentrate on actually driving.
Other than that, instructors were pretty good. Some were definitely better at teaching than others- all were very knowledgeable, patient and polite. I went off once and didnt really get any good explanation but "you braked too late" Well no ****. I went home and watched video for about an hour and eventually figured it out (their map lies. Don't power between 6 and 7 if you do 6 correctly). I think this could be improved a bit more.
Track layout and surface was top notch. I really enjoyed it.
Video
Here's my video chasing a Z07 in my Z51. He had the fastest Z07 of the class and his best was about 0.10 sec faster than my best lap. A guy with a GSZ07 was about 3/4 sec faster than me. He was pretty smooth too.
Last edited by village idiot; 05-10-2018 at 11:20 PM.
#2
Instructor
Having said that - the whole experience is 10/10
#3
I was there a week ago and every instructor told us to hold our speed between 6 and 7. Maybe they changed their instructions?
#4
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
#5
Ahh. You were on the other track.
#6
They also talked about a strategy of light braking as opposed to late braking. Instead of moving braking points closer to the corner, they told me to use a consistent brake marker and use less brake.
On the track, my over braking translated to slower entry speeds and I could feel my corner speeds were slow because I wanted to get on the gas too early midcorner. My best learning moment (out of many) was when the instructor lead me into the corner and encouraged me to follow his entry speed.
#7
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I didn’t realize that the downshifting exercise was really a trailbraking exercise until the next day. The exercise was to find the right amount of braking to get from X speed down to Y speed in Z distance with a single brake application, downshift and don’t completely let off the brakes. I found that I tended to over-brake and reached Y speed early so I needed to be off the brakes before Z distance was reached.
They also talked about a strategy of light braking as opposed to late braking. Instead of moving braking points closer to the corner, they told me to use a consistent brake marker and use less brake.
On the track, my over braking translated to slower entry speeds and I could feel my corner speeds were slow because I wanted to get on the gas too early midcorner. My best learning moment (out of many) was when the instructor lead me into the corner and encouraged me to follow his entry speed.
Pretty happy with my 1.59. The only two cars faster were people who had been there in a Z07 (0.1 sec) and a GS Z07 (0.7sec).
#8
Premium Supporting Vendor
Yeah, for sure. The earlier I braked, the more I dropped lap time. I'm still not sure why the hell that is, because I've always been taught to jam on the brakes trail off.
Pretty happy with my 1.59. The only two cars faster were people who had been there in a Z07 (0.1 sec) and a GS Z07 (0.7sec).
Pretty happy with my 1.59. The only two cars faster were people who had been there in a Z07 (0.1 sec) and a GS Z07 (0.7sec).
glad you had a good time overall!
if you'd like, feel free to call rick, or rico to get some feedback (and give us some too
I watched your video, and can offer some as well, if you'd like.
The radio, can sometimes fail, or get interference. i noticed your volume was quite low (on the session i watched) so not sure if we had the vol too low, or your unit was malfunctioning...for sure I'll check it out...
For anyone who has issues, we do offer an earpiece that can help with volume.
breaking 2:00 on the 2.4 track is quite good!
cheers!
__________________
Victor Resendiz
Spring Mountain Motor Resort and Country Club
Ron Fellows Performance Driving School
The Official Performance Driving School Of Corvette
www.racespringmountain.com
victor@racespringmountain.com
800-391-6891
Victor Resendiz
Spring Mountain Motor Resort and Country Club
Ron Fellows Performance Driving School
The Official Performance Driving School Of Corvette
www.racespringmountain.com
victor@racespringmountain.com
800-391-6891
#9
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Hi!
glad you had a good time overall!
if you'd like, feel free to call rick, or rico to get some feedback (and give us some too
I watched your video, and can offer some as well, if you'd like.
The radio, can sometimes fail, or get interference. i noticed your volume was quite low (on the session i watched) so not sure if we had the vol too low, or your unit was malfunctioning...for sure I'll check it out...
For anyone who has issues, we do offer an earpiece that can help with volume.
breaking 2:00 on the 2.4 track is quite good!
cheers!
glad you had a good time overall!
if you'd like, feel free to call rick, or rico to get some feedback (and give us some too
I watched your video, and can offer some as well, if you'd like.
The radio, can sometimes fail, or get interference. i noticed your volume was quite low (on the session i watched) so not sure if we had the vol too low, or your unit was malfunctioning...for sure I'll check it out...
For anyone who has issues, we do offer an earpiece that can help with volume.
breaking 2:00 on the 2.4 track is quite good!
cheers!
It was strange, I only started being able to put everything together when I started driving on my own. You really don't realize how much attention and focus is needed to drive a course until you start dividing it. Well, maybe not everyone, but I'm apparently not smart enough to handle driving and listen to someone at the same time.
I missed a lot of radio calls and really struggled with it, but I didn't hear any complaints from anyone else. It might just be me.
As far as the video, it honestly helped me a lot to go through and watch my own video on my own (now implementing it on the track was another issue). It really bothered me because it wasn't even close- I went FLYING off the track. I think I was solid 30ft into the sand. Eventually, I figured out that I was overbraking 6, so I was entering the super very slow and I could add gas for 2 seconds. When I followed my instructor through, I realized he was carrying a lot more speed. I carried a lot more speed and went WOT on exit. Well, you can't really do that and expect to stay on track.
Even when I rode with an instructor I didn't get why until I watched my videos and saw I was carrying a ton more speed through 6. My instructor told me not to add gas there, I said I did it every lap and this never happened before.
Overall, I give the program 9.5/10, and that's including everything from facility to instructors to track layout/surface. The place is just heaven. It's really impressive how wide of a skill level it caters to in one program, and so well. It's not the faster guys are just getting a refresher on basics while slower guys are learning or something. It's really an impressive program you guys put together.
Only reason it's not a 10/10 is honestly very minor nit-pick details like radio and I wish a little more time was given to breaking down what happened when something like going off the track that far/that hot happens. Very minor nit-picks. Oh, and having the sliders for lunch both days would have been great
edit: My other suggestion would be to send a "demo video" to everyone. Lots of us haven't been there before. I told a few guys there I got a video from you and they were all jealous. Maybe instead of the "heel toe" drill, do some parade laps with instructors in the vehicles to help learn the track or something. The first day of learning the track can be challenging.
Last edited by village idiot; 05-11-2018 at 03:44 PM.
#10
The radio, can sometimes fail, or get interference. i noticed your volume was quite low (on the session i watched) so not sure if we had the vol too low, or your unit was malfunctioning...for sure I'll check it out...
For anyone who has issues, we do offer an earpiece that can help with volume.
For anyone who has issues, we do offer an earpiece that can help with volume.
#11
Premium Supporting Vendor
Thanks, Victor. I had a blast. It was the best "track day" I've ever done. I noticed myself getting a lot more comfortable with recovering and making mid turn adjustments thanks to the big sweeping turns. That was something I wanted to work on. T1 and T2 are really great because they're fast and long, but the correct line is through the middle-ish, so you have lots of room to go wide if needed.
It was strange, I only started being able to put everything together when I started driving on my own. You really don't realize how much attention and focus is needed to drive a course until you start dividing it. Well, maybe not everyone, but I'm apparently not smart enough to handle driving and listen to someone at the same time.
I missed a lot of radio calls and really struggled with it, but I didn't hear any complaints from anyone else. It might just be me.
As far as the video, it honestly helped me a lot to go through and watch my own video on my own (now implementing it on the track was another issue). It really bothered me because it wasn't even close- I went FLYING off the track. I think I was solid 30ft into the sand. Eventually, I figured out that I was overbraking 6, so I was entering the super very slow and I could add gas for 2 seconds. When I followed my instructor through, I realized he was carrying a lot more speed. I carried a lot more speed and went WOT on exit. Well, you can't really do that and expect to stay on track.
Even when I rode with an instructor I didn't get why until I watched my videos and saw I was carrying a ton more speed through 6. My instructor told me not to add gas there, I said I did it every lap and this never happened before.
Overall, I give the program 9.5/10, and that's including everything from facility to instructors to track layout/surface. The place is just heaven. It's really impressive how wide of a skill level it caters to in one program, and so well. It's not the faster guys are just getting a refresher on basics while slower guys are learning or something. It's really an impressive program you guys put together.
Only reason it's not a 10/10 is honestly very minor nit-pick details like radio and I wish a little more time was given to breaking down what happened when something like going off the track that far/that hot happens. Very minor nit-picks. Oh, and having the sliders for lunch both days would have been great
edit: My other suggestion would be to send a "demo video" to everyone. Lots of us haven't been there before. I told a few guys there I got a video from you and they were all jealous. Maybe instead of the "heel toe" drill, do some parade laps with instructors in the vehicles to help learn the track or something. The first day of learning the track can be challenging.
It was strange, I only started being able to put everything together when I started driving on my own. You really don't realize how much attention and focus is needed to drive a course until you start dividing it. Well, maybe not everyone, but I'm apparently not smart enough to handle driving and listen to someone at the same time.
I missed a lot of radio calls and really struggled with it, but I didn't hear any complaints from anyone else. It might just be me.
As far as the video, it honestly helped me a lot to go through and watch my own video on my own (now implementing it on the track was another issue). It really bothered me because it wasn't even close- I went FLYING off the track. I think I was solid 30ft into the sand. Eventually, I figured out that I was overbraking 6, so I was entering the super very slow and I could add gas for 2 seconds. When I followed my instructor through, I realized he was carrying a lot more speed. I carried a lot more speed and went WOT on exit. Well, you can't really do that and expect to stay on track.
Even when I rode with an instructor I didn't get why until I watched my videos and saw I was carrying a ton more speed through 6. My instructor told me not to add gas there, I said I did it every lap and this never happened before.
Overall, I give the program 9.5/10, and that's including everything from facility to instructors to track layout/surface. The place is just heaven. It's really impressive how wide of a skill level it caters to in one program, and so well. It's not the faster guys are just getting a refresher on basics while slower guys are learning or something. It's really an impressive program you guys put together.
Only reason it's not a 10/10 is honestly very minor nit-pick details like radio and I wish a little more time was given to breaking down what happened when something like going off the track that far/that hot happens. Very minor nit-picks. Oh, and having the sliders for lunch both days would have been great
edit: My other suggestion would be to send a "demo video" to everyone. Lots of us haven't been there before. I told a few guys there I got a video from you and they were all jealous. Maybe instead of the "heel toe" drill, do some parade laps with instructors in the vehicles to help learn the track or something. The first day of learning the track can be challenging.
I'll for sure share with the instructors and the GM here!
turn 6 is tricky...if you go too fast through there, then enter turn 7 as fast as you did, then for sure, understeer can happen...as well as an early turn in (as what i saw on the video)
the throttle through turn 6 is more for maintenance, and to allow yourself to get the car over to the left, to set up for turn 7. Kind of sacrificing the speed a little (turn 6), as that corner leads to the longest straight...but hey, come on back and we'll work on it!
#12
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
thanks for the feedback!
I'll for sure share with the instructors and the GM here!
turn 6 is tricky...if you go too fast through there, then enter turn 7 as fast as you did, then for sure, understeer can happen...as well as an early turn in (as what i saw on the video)
the throttle through turn 6 is more for maintenance, and to allow yourself to get the car over to the left, to set up for turn 7. Kind of sacrificing the speed a little (turn 6), as that corner leads to the longest straight...but hey, come on back and we'll work on it!
I'll for sure share with the instructors and the GM here!
turn 6 is tricky...if you go too fast through there, then enter turn 7 as fast as you did, then for sure, understeer can happen...as well as an early turn in (as what i saw on the video)
the throttle through turn 6 is more for maintenance, and to allow yourself to get the car over to the left, to set up for turn 7. Kind of sacrificing the speed a little (turn 6), as that corner leads to the longest straight...but hey, come on back and we'll work on it!
I noticed myself turning in a bit early there and 3, too. It's amazing how good of a driver I am when I'm watching it on my computer.
Last edited by village idiot; 05-11-2018 at 05:24 PM.
#13
Team Owner
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Location: Northern, VA
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
Thanks for the detail. I really think that your ideas and suggestions in Post #9 are very good. And they could be very helpful to students before they get there, as well as while they are there. It could make an excellent course even better which seems like a form of "continuous improvement." I appreciate the response from Spring Mtn., too.
#14
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Thanks for the detail. I really think that your ideas and suggestions in Post #9 are very good. And they could be very helpful to students before they get there, as well as while they are there. It could make an excellent course even better which seems like a form of "continuous improvement." I appreciate the response from Spring Mtn., too.
I'm pretty sure I spend about $1600 for 2 track days in consumables alone for a track day locally.
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socalspringmountain (05-16-2018)
#15
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
by the way, what times do the instructors run on that course in a Z51 (with PTM1)?
#16
Safety Car
#17
Melting Slicks
This is the level 2 class? I thought it was significantly more expensive then $1,600. I have done the COS twice now as at $1,000 it's a steal. Wanting to do level 2.
#18
Melting Slicks
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2022 C8 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2022 C7 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
#19
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter