Oil filter... who knows the answer to this question?
#21
That filter really isn't a "premium" filter like the old Ultraguard Gold UPF44 filter that we used to run on the C5s back in the day. The UPF64R is actually a filter made for the smaller GM engines like the 1.5 liter turbo engine in the Cruze or the Spark. (it's even the filter for the Chevy Volt) So don't let the UPF designation (or the R at the end) make you think it's some sort of special racing filter or anything similar the Ultraguard Gold filters from before. Your money is still better spent upgrading to Wix, NAPA Gold or the Fram Ultra XG12060 when it's available.
#22
Race Director
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...&P#Post4783149
#23
Le Mans Master
To really know which filter is better, you need to look up detailed spec. on each filter you are considering, and then decide for yourself..
For example, here are the details on the WIX filter 57060, including the lower bypass valve pressure, which used to be the recommended filter for Corvette. WIX now has a 10290 filter that has the upgraded specs..
I was using the WIX filters on all my cars until I read that the bypass pressure was too low, so I switched to PF64...Now that WIX has and updated filter for Corvette, I may go back to WIX..
For example, here are the details on the WIX filter 57060, including the lower bypass valve pressure, which used to be the recommended filter for Corvette. WIX now has a 10290 filter that has the upgraded specs..
I was using the WIX filters on all my cars until I read that the bypass pressure was too low, so I switched to PF64...Now that WIX has and updated filter for Corvette, I may go back to WIX..
Last edited by TEXHAWK0; 06-21-2018 at 11:01 AM.
#24
I've seen pictures of them cut open and they are better built in some ways but the media is nothing special, it's the same as what you get in the PF64.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...&P#Post4783149
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...&P#Post4783149
#25
Race Director
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...lter-pics.html
#26
Here is another one cut open (from this site too)
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...lter-pics.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...lter-pics.html
#28
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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Do yourself a favor and don't waste your time and energy on this and just use the PF64 that GM made and recommends for the C7.
I owned a chain of auto parts stores for years, sold millions of the major brand filters and could give you a very detailed and analytical answer, however I'm going to take the advice I gave you and not waste my time.
I owned a chain of auto parts stores for years, sold millions of the major brand filters and could give you a very detailed and analytical answer, however I'm going to take the advice I gave you and not waste my time.
Here is an excellent reason to also use the PF64 filter. One of the car mags had an early C7 engine fail. GM said it was caused by a bad oil filter. Some years ago there was a post of a Fram filter failing. All were warned not to use Fram filters. In fact that is when I had a C6 and made a PDF of doing an oil change that showed a Fram filter! One of my product/business managers also had a C6 and was poking fun at my use of a Fram filter about the time of that Frum post/info.! Next oil change I used an AC and changed the pic in the PDF!
Fact is anything can fail. If a GM filter fails and causes and engine failure GM would have to cover it. If an aftermarket filter fails that may well "filter a bit better" GM could well reject the warranty claim. I'm sure the aftermarket filter company would replaced the failed filter-BUT not the engine!
Last edited by JerryU; 06-21-2018 at 02:05 PM.
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Kevin A Jones (06-21-2018)
#29
Drifting
Thread Starter
Some good info some of your guys posted.
I'm not against running the OEM filter. People have posted alternative filters that meet or exceed OEM specs. Thats what its all about.
I'm not against running the OEM filter. People have posted alternative filters that meet or exceed OEM specs. Thats what its all about.
#30
Of course there are other filters that meet GM specs. But why take a chance raising questions when you don't have to and gain no advantage from doing so? If your engine tanks, and there's a PF64 screwed on it full of used oil, no questions are asked about the oil filter.
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Kevin A Jones (06-21-2018)
#31
Race Director
#32
Your choice. You're betting that what you believe to be a marginally better filter would have saved your blown engine, which is a dubious theory at best. Then you're faced with proving that your non-OEM filter was consistent with GM specs. I just think it's silly to give a manufacturer any excuse to wiggle out of a warranty claim.
Do you honestly think there is a brand of filter or any other part which is 100% defect-free? You're basing your decision on one data-point of one defective PF64, which is tantamount to never going outside again for fear of being struck by lightning.
Do you honestly think there is a brand of filter or any other part which is 100% defect-free? You're basing your decision on one data-point of one defective PF64, which is tantamount to never going outside again for fear of being struck by lightning.
Last edited by Foosh; 06-21-2018 at 02:49 PM.
#33
Race Director
Your choice. You're betting that what you believe to be a marginally better filter would have saved your blown engine, which is a dubious theory at best. Then you're faced with proving that your non-OEM filter was consistent with GM specs. I just think it's silly to give a manufacturer any excuse to wiggle out of a warranty claim.
Do you honestly think there is a brand of filter or any other part which is 100% defect-free? You're basing your decision on one data-point of one defective PF64, which is tantamount to never going outside again for fear of being struck by lightning.
Do you honestly think there is a brand of filter or any other part which is 100% defect-free? You're basing your decision on one data-point of one defective PF64, which is tantamount to never going outside again for fear of being struck by lightning.
I also have a used PF64 sitting in a box in my garage that I could always re install on the engine in the extreme rare case I needed to make a warranty claim.
Last edited by Patman; 06-21-2018 at 03:02 PM.
#34
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St. Jude Donor '13
I look at is this way, there are a lot of people out there that use Jiffy Lube and other similar oil change places and they don't always use OEM filters, so are all of those people taking a chance when it comes to a warranty claim? As long as the filter you're using is the proper spec, and it isn't the actual cause of the engine failure, I think it's safe to use. I know they can give you a hard time for using a non OEM filter, but they legally cannot deny your claim because of it.
I also have a used PF64 sitting in a box in my garage that I could always re install on the engine in the extreme rare case I needed to make a warranty claim.
I also have a used PF64 sitting in a box in my garage that I could always re install on the engine in the extreme rare case I needed to make a warranty claim.
If GM says your (in this case) engine problem was caused by a different oil filter and you can't persuade them otherwise, you've got 3 choices:
1. Shut up and pay for the repair yourself.
2 Hire an attorney for $xxx per hour and expert witnesses for $xxx per hour. You might win the case, but more likely you'll spend enough money to buy a new car and lose anyway.
3. Find a good attorney who will take your case on a contingency basis. Good luck with that. Good luck with actually winning if he does take your case.
#35
Le Mans Master
Here's a thread with some good pictures (pay close attn to pic #5 vs. 6*): https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...lter-pics.html
*A high-performance 6.2L engine needs quite a bit more oil than a 1.5L engine; note the 8 large holes vs. the 6 small holes.
Last edited by Kracka; 06-21-2018 at 04:27 PM.
#36
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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Your choice. You're betting that what you believe to be a marginally better filter would have saved your blown engine, which is a dubious theory at best. Then you're faced with proving that your non-OEM filter was consistent with GM specs. I just think it's silly to give a manufacturer any excuse to wiggle out of a warranty claim.
Do you honestly think there is a brand of filter or any other part which is 100% defect-free? You're basing your decision on one data-point of one defective PF64, which is tantamount to never going outside again for fear of being struck by lightning.
Do you honestly think there is a brand of filter or any other part which is 100% defect-free? You're basing your decision on one data-point of one defective PF64, which is tantamount to never going outside again for fear of being struck by lightning.
Two Fun Other Examples of the Impossibility of Achieving 100% Quality:
Shelling Beaches in Normandy: One of the best statistical books I have used is a Government Publication by Mary Natrella, entitled “Experimental Statistics." It's several hundred pages and she uses many examples to define why 100% reliability is not possible. She relays a hypothetical story about an Admiral in charge of shelling the beaches from ships at Normandy before and during D Day. The Admiral states he wants no shells falling short and causing friendly fire. She shows that by testing 1 shell in each batch of 10,000 she can assure that only a very small percentage will fall short but some will hit the men landing on the beach. He says that not acceptable. She goes on to provide the probability if one shell in 100 is tested. It ends with testing 9,999 shells in a batch of 10,000 that there is still a probability, although small, that last shell fired that was not tested could fall short.
I used a similar approach in a very contentious meeting with a person from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission at a very large fabricator who built 10 inch thick ~20 foot diameter containment vessels and had used our welding materials for many years. They found a material problem in one vessel they were fabricating. (Note the defective material was discovered in another vessel and soon after welding had started so none was in the vessel in question.)
Nuclear Pressure Vessel: In the meeting the NRC representative was questioning the quality of the material we supplied that was used in a 10 inch thick steel containment vessel being fabricated! We had a very logical explanation and tests showing why the error occurred and could show it was limited to a batch we had taken back. Not good enough , he said he wanted 100% assurance that all material used for that vessel was not a problem. I recall pausing 5 seconds to see if he would interject and answer his own question. He did not! I told him although the probability was 99.9+% it was not a problem I could not assure him 100% that the material this major fabricator used for the past 5 years and had made many such vessels was 100% perfect! I indicated there are many other tests such as weld X-Rays and visual inspection that would have identified problems as that is what identified the one that was discovered! That ended the conversation (as I was putting his 100% assurance question in many vessels in operation) and he accepted they did not have to remove welds in that 10 inch thick ~20 foot diameter vessel!
Last edited by JerryU; 06-21-2018 at 04:15 PM.
#37
I look at is this way, there are a lot of people out there that use Jiffy Lube and other similar oil change places and they don't always use OEM filters, so are all of those people taking a chance when it comes to a warranty claim? As long as the filter you're using is the proper spec, and it isn't the actual cause of the engine failure, I think it's safe to use. I know they can give you a hard time for using a non OEM filter, but they legally cannot deny your claim because of it.
I also have a used PF64 sitting in a box in my garage that I could always re install on the engine in the extreme rare case I needed to make a warranty claim.
I also have a used PF64 sitting in a box in my garage that I could always re install on the engine in the extreme rare case I needed to make a warranty claim.
Last edited by Foosh; 06-21-2018 at 04:13 PM.
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JerryU (06-21-2018)
#38
Burning Brakes
I look at it a little differently I guess, I just don't trust the PF64. We've already heard that a defective PF64 caused an LT1 to fail and I've seen the pics of one with the media torn too. I'd rather not take a chance that one of these filters actually becomes the cause of my engine being destroyed, I'd rather have one on there that is built a lot better.
#39
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Aftermarket isn't always so great... a guy around the corner from me just replaced an engine due to a faulty K&N oil filter.
#40
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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Yep, just shows that even the best filter available is not 100% assumed of not failing! In fact I wonder about the sun that just went out of sight! Just because it's come up for several billion years and the odds are it will tomorrow- there Is still a probability that....
Last edited by JerryU; 06-21-2018 at 08:59 PM.