Corvette C7 acceleration underwhelming?
07-03-2018, 12:02 PM
#61
Team Owner
Guessing those have what, a 2.xx rear end gear? If so thats why.
I have a sbc that makes well over 550chp and with 4.11s feels violent...with even a 3.08 gear it would feel like a pig.
So to have a car that idles like a kitten make 500hp get over 25mpg and run a 12, no it wont feel violent but will still be fast.
Remember when the C5 came out, I test drove a vert 6 spd and thought, "how slow" but reached 100 pretty quick. Same thing
Tall gear, flat torque curve
I have a sbc that makes well over 550chp and with 4.11s feels violent...with even a 3.08 gear it would feel like a pig.
So to have a car that idles like a kitten make 500hp get over 25mpg and run a 12, no it wont feel violent but will still be fast.
Remember when the C5 came out, I test drove a vert 6 spd and thought, "how slow" but reached 100 pretty quick. Same thing
Tall gear, flat torque curve
If the OP drove a GS/Z51 M7 with it's 3.42 rear gear and it's 2.97:1 1st gear he has a total of 10.16 torque multiplication.
Now compared to the Z06 A8 with it's 2.41 rear gear and it's 4.56 1st gear for a 10.99:1 torque multiplication.
Or the Z06 with the M7 with it's with it's 3.42 rear gear and it's 2.29 1st gear, for a 7.83:1 torque multiplication.
Sure looks like a C7 GS/Z51/Z06 A8 has better gearing with it's "lackluster" 2.xx(AKA 2.73:1 or 2.41:1) rear gear vs the M7 with it's "aggressive" 3.42 rear end gears. Don't you think so?
There is more to the story than just the rear axle ratio.
Last edited by JoesC5; 07-03-2018 at 12:07 PM.
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Mike Campbell (07-06-2018)
07-03-2018, 12:11 PM
#62
Melting Slicks
People generally associate the experience of "drama" with acceleration. A car that is loud, rattles, performs unnecessary weight transfer, etc, will "feel" faster than one that is quiet and smooth.
I've stated this before, I had a 4th generation Camaro that started as an autocross car, and then I built a motor for it. Little over 500 HP at the crank, super stiff suspension, loud exhaust, rattles, etc. With the street tires on it, it did the 1/4 in almost exactly the same time as my Corvette. Yet every single person who had been in both was certain the Camaro was much faster. It wasn't, but the drama and noise made it feel faster.
If you want speed, find a car that does it smoothly, and the Corvette will fit the bill. If you want the feeling of speed, you might want to look elsewhere.
As far as "winding country roads" mentioned in the OP, get a Grand Sport and forget everything else. I love the Camaros, the Z06, who wouldn't love a ZR1, but for driving dynamics where power is less important, a Grand Sport is really hard to beat.
I've stated this before, I had a 4th generation Camaro that started as an autocross car, and then I built a motor for it. Little over 500 HP at the crank, super stiff suspension, loud exhaust, rattles, etc. With the street tires on it, it did the 1/4 in almost exactly the same time as my Corvette. Yet every single person who had been in both was certain the Camaro was much faster. It wasn't, but the drama and noise made it feel faster.
If you want speed, find a car that does it smoothly, and the Corvette will fit the bill. If you want the feeling of speed, you might want to look elsewhere.
As far as "winding country roads" mentioned in the OP, get a Grand Sport and forget everything else. I love the Camaros, the Z06, who wouldn't love a ZR1, but for driving dynamics where power is less important, a Grand Sport is really hard to beat.
Last edited by z28lt1; 07-03-2018 at 12:13 PM.
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YourFastLife (07-03-2018)
07-03-2018, 12:11 PM
#63
Melting Slicks
Underwhelmed as compared to what? Dragster?,then yes.Most other street cars?,then no.
IMO...Vettes are not known to be great drag cars out-of-the-box.However,on the track,they shine.
\db2
IMO...Vettes are not known to be great drag cars out-of-the-box.However,on the track,they shine.
\db2
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07-03-2018, 12:12 PM
#64
Race Director
My C7 is just the base model with the 2.41 gears and doesn't have the performance exhaust so it's slightly less powerful at a rated 455hp. Even with that combination, it pushes me back in my seat pretty hard at full throttle, it's definitely not underwhelming IMO. I know that other people with this exact combo have run mid 11s with sticky tires on it, and I believe those times as the quickest cars I've owned before this one were my C6 (which were known to run low 12s stock) and my supercharged 5.0 Mustang (which ran a best ET of 12.16 at 112mph) and my C7 definitely feels quicker than both of those cars.
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07-03-2018, 12:32 PM
#65
Instructor
07-03-2018, 12:35 PM
#66
Thanks to my MAC my well written (IMO LOL) response to you is gone! 
Anyway, I was just saying that it's all making sense now. The Corvette is not really a light car. If all you are making is around 400HP, that is only 100HP more than many of the lower end cars I've driven which are usually around 300HP but weigh 2800-3200 LBs. The next factor I missed was power band. I needed to consider WHERE the 400HP was being delivered.
As for C7 being fast. I have no doubts there but I'm very obsessed with the visceral nature of performance cars. I'd rather be the slowest guy at each car meet, if my car is the most fun to drive at every meet. For me cars are very personal. It's about what brings ME joy, which is the FEELING I get and the emotion I get from driving. So my focus is on driving dynamics that bring me joy:
Being pressed hard into the seat as I accelerate
Being pressed hard to the side as I do a high G turn
Being able to feel like the car will go wherever I want it; decreasing radius turn? BRING IT ON!
Controlled chaos might be the word some would use for this. See, I have no interest in old school muscle cars that are visceral for sure but make you feel like you are about to die. I may feel like I COULD die if I ever disrespect the car, but I should feel confident that as long as I'm alert and engaged, I'll be OK. Kind of like jogging by the edge of a cliff. Stop paying attention and you could go over but pay attention and you are fine...even if you stumble...however...you STILL are near a cliff so, you can never really fully relax. Old muscle cars to me could be like running by the edge. Any second you could fall and be done with.
Anyway, I was just saying that it's all making sense now. The Corvette is not really a light car. If all you are making is around 400HP, that is only 100HP more than many of the lower end cars I've driven which are usually around 300HP but weigh 2800-3200 LBs. The next factor I missed was power band. I needed to consider WHERE the 400HP was being delivered.
As for C7 being fast. I have no doubts there but I'm very obsessed with the visceral nature of performance cars. I'd rather be the slowest guy at each car meet, if my car is the most fun to drive at every meet. For me cars are very personal. It's about what brings ME joy, which is the FEELING I get and the emotion I get from driving. So my focus is on driving dynamics that bring me joy:
Being pressed hard into the seat as I accelerate
Being pressed hard to the side as I do a high G turn
Being able to feel like the car will go wherever I want it; decreasing radius turn? BRING IT ON!
Controlled chaos might be the word some would use for this. See, I have no interest in old school muscle cars that are visceral for sure but make you feel like you are about to die. I may feel like I COULD die if I ever disrespect the car, but I should feel confident that as long as I'm alert and engaged, I'll be OK. Kind of like jogging by the edge of a cliff. Stop paying attention and you could go over but pay attention and you are fine...even if you stumble...however...you STILL are near a cliff so, you can never really fully relax. Old muscle cars to me could be like running by the edge. Any second you could fall and be done with.
07-03-2018, 12:37 PM
#67
When does this happen though? I went into things with high expectations on power, so I could have been short shifting for all I know. I also had only a short distance to go fast. So I might not have gotten to sweet spot.
07-03-2018, 12:39 PM
#68
Remember I speaking strictly butt dyno which matters a lot to me. In my mind I was also thinking 500HP. I just got too excited perhaps. 
07-03-2018, 12:40 PM
#69
Very well stated. Thanks for another vote for the GS.
People generally associate the experience of "drama" with acceleration. A car that is loud, rattles, performs unnecessary weight transfer, etc, will "feel" faster than one that is quiet and smooth.
I've stated this before, I had a 4th generation Camaro that started as an autocross car, and then I built a motor for it. Little over 500 HP at the crank, super stiff suspension, loud exhaust, rattles, etc. With the street tires on it, it did the 1/4 in almost exactly the same time as my Corvette. Yet every single person who had been in both was certain the Camaro was much faster. It wasn't, but the drama and noise made it feel faster.
If you want speed, find a car that does it smoothly, and the Corvette will fit the bill. If you want the feeling of speed, you might want to look elsewhere.
As far as "winding country roads" mentioned in the OP, get a Grand Sport and forget everything else. I love the Camaros, the Z06, who wouldn't love a ZR1, but for driving dynamics where power is less important, a Grand Sport is really hard to beat.
I've stated this before, I had a 4th generation Camaro that started as an autocross car, and then I built a motor for it. Little over 500 HP at the crank, super stiff suspension, loud exhaust, rattles, etc. With the street tires on it, it did the 1/4 in almost exactly the same time as my Corvette. Yet every single person who had been in both was certain the Camaro was much faster. It wasn't, but the drama and noise made it feel faster.
If you want speed, find a car that does it smoothly, and the Corvette will fit the bill. If you want the feeling of speed, you might want to look elsewhere.
As far as "winding country roads" mentioned in the OP, get a Grand Sport and forget everything else. I love the Camaros, the Z06, who wouldn't love a ZR1, but for driving dynamics where power is less important, a Grand Sport is really hard to beat.
07-03-2018, 01:13 PM
#70
Burning Brakes
If you were already moving and tried to use "only a short distance to go fast", you should think about the fact that 2nd tops out around 70mph and 3rd tops our around 100mph. If you're trying to get thrown back punching it in 4th while going less than 100, yea, you're not going to feel as much as you'd think.
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07-03-2018, 01:56 PM
#71
Instructor
Thanks to my MAC my well written (IMO LOL) response to you is gone!
Anyway, I was just saying that it's all making sense now. The Corvette is not really a light car. If all you are making is around 400HP, that is only 100HP more than many of the lower end cars I've driven which are usually around 300HP but weigh 2800-3200 LBs. The next factor I missed was power band. I needed to consider WHERE the 400HP was being delivered.
As for C7 being fast. I have no doubts there but I'm very obsessed with the visceral nature of performance cars. I'd rather be the slowest guy at each car meet, if my car is the most fun to drive at every meet. For me cars are very personal. It's about what brings ME joy, which is the FEELING I get and the emotion I get from driving. So my focus is on driving dynamics that bring me joy:
Being pressed hard into the seat as I accelerate
Being pressed hard to the side as I do a high G turn
Being able to feel like the car will go wherever I want it; decreasing radius turn? BRING IT ON!
Controlled chaos might be the word some would use for this. See, I have no interest in old school muscle cars that are visceral for sure but make you feel like you are about to die. I may feel like I COULD die if I ever disrespect the car, but I should feel confident that as long as I'm alert and engaged, I'll be OK. Kind of like jogging by the edge of a cliff. Stop paying attention and you could go over but pay attention and you are fine...even if you stumble...however...you STILL are near a cliff so, you can never really fully relax. Old muscle cars to me could be like running by the edge. Any second you could fall and be done with.
Anyway, I was just saying that it's all making sense now. The Corvette is not really a light car. If all you are making is around 400HP, that is only 100HP more than many of the lower end cars I've driven which are usually around 300HP but weigh 2800-3200 LBs. The next factor I missed was power band. I needed to consider WHERE the 400HP was being delivered.
As for C7 being fast. I have no doubts there but I'm very obsessed with the visceral nature of performance cars. I'd rather be the slowest guy at each car meet, if my car is the most fun to drive at every meet. For me cars are very personal. It's about what brings ME joy, which is the FEELING I get and the emotion I get from driving. So my focus is on driving dynamics that bring me joy:
Being pressed hard into the seat as I accelerate
Being pressed hard to the side as I do a high G turn
Being able to feel like the car will go wherever I want it; decreasing radius turn? BRING IT ON!
Controlled chaos might be the word some would use for this. See, I have no interest in old school muscle cars that are visceral for sure but make you feel like you are about to die. I may feel like I COULD die if I ever disrespect the car, but I should feel confident that as long as I'm alert and engaged, I'll be OK. Kind of like jogging by the edge of a cliff. Stop paying attention and you could go over but pay attention and you are fine...even if you stumble...however...you STILL are near a cliff so, you can never really fully relax. Old muscle cars to me could be like running by the edge. Any second you could fall and be done with.
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YourFastLife (07-03-2018)
07-03-2018, 02:00 PM
#72
I was thinking the second I smashed the throttle I'd be amazed. That said, I started from a light and went through no more than 3 gears. I'm guessing I anticipated the typical craziness of 1st gear and jumped to 2nd too fast, then was running out of room before I could hit 3rd, then by the time I hit 3rd I'd already calmed down my driving as not to be reckless. Should have done highway pulls watched the RPM so I could go through full power band to see what it was all about.
If you were already moving and tried to use "only a short distance to go fast", you should think about the fact that 2nd tops out around 70mph and 3rd tops our around 100mph. If you're trying to get thrown back punching it in 4th while going less than 100, yea, you're not going to feel as much as you'd think.
07-03-2018, 02:02 PM
#73
Interesting. That is how the Ferrari 458 felt to me. Like a Camry through town not driving like a maniac. Also newer Porshe has simular effect. So refined and smooth....not for me. Hopefull the C7 is not as refined as Porsche. Porshe is not going in a direction I like. I love the older Porshe cars.
I just acquired my 2017 Z51 coupe after owning 2 C6’s including an LS7 convertible and most recently a 2015 Camaro Z28. I can relate somewhat to your feeling as I was somewhat surprised that the C7 did not feel as visceral as the Z28 which I tracked. However I agree with z28lt1 that some of that is due to the refinement of the C7. It is a very fast car it is just much more civilized than some other performance cars. I can’t wait to get mine broken in and on the track I think it is going to shine there.
I just acquired my 2017 Z51 coupe after owning 2 C6’s including an LS7 convertible and most recently a 2015 Camaro Z28. I can relate somewhat to your feeling as I was somewhat surprised that the C7 did not feel as visceral as the Z28 which I tracked. However I agree with z28lt1 that some of that is due to the refinement of the C7. It is a very fast car it is just much more civilized than some other performance cars. I can’t wait to get mine broken in and on the track I think it is going to shine there.
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ptran00 (07-07-2018)
07-03-2018, 02:08 PM
#74
Burning Brakes
I was thinking the second I smashed the throttle I'd be amazed. That said, I started from a light and went through no more than 3 gears. I'm guessing I anticipated the typical craziness of 1st gear and jumped to 2nd too fast, then was running out of room before I could hit 3rd, then by the time I hit 3rd I'd already calmed down my driving as not to be reckless. Should have done highway pulls watched the RPM so I could go through full power band to see what it was all about.
Even the base can break traction going into 4th.
Last edited by LbulletM; 07-03-2018 at 02:08 PM.
07-03-2018, 02:32 PM
#75
Instructor
I had a 2002 Firehawk with the LS motor and a 6 speed manual all stock and it had drama off the line all the way up to 4th with traction control off. My C7 base model is very drama free but when I look at the speedometer I noticed I was going faster and got there quicker. I know my Stingray is not a drag car but underwhelming it is not. To much power can through a sport car's balance off, torque in the right spots and horse power in the other right spots and both when it needs it. I am not a track runner but I understand the matrix. Like the Dodge Viper, No matter how much down force you give it, that V10 torque monster just chews up tire and looses traction and will spin you out with out a moments notice. I haven't own one but my friends scared the crap out of me. So I was kind of worried when I took my Vette out for a test drive and mashed the gas. Guess I liked it because it went home with me. Just like when I took out in the rain the first time. I put it in weather mode and I liked how it will helps you keep from getting over zealous with the throttle but it can only help not fix stupid stupid dangerous driving.
07-03-2018, 03:40 PM
#76
I was thinking the second I smashed the throttle I'd be amazed. That said, I started from a light and went through no more than 3 gears. I'm guessing I anticipated the typical craziness of 1st gear and jumped to 2nd too fast, then was running out of room before I could hit 3rd, then by the time I hit 3rd I'd already calmed down my driving as not to be reckless. Should have done highway pulls watched the RPM so I could go through full power band to see what it was all about.
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YourFastLife (07-03-2018)
07-03-2018, 04:09 PM
#77
It might not be a popular answer here but I would take a close look at the ZL1. It has a lot more torque then a base Corvette and that feeling of torque will give you the throw back in the seat feeling you are looking for. The alpha platform it is built on is known for its stability and it is a heavier car so I think you will have the feeling it is on Rails as you described you might be looking for between the stability and the weight. If you actually take it to the track you would notice the weight difference between it and the Corvette as a potential negative but on the street that really won't be an issue and stability at the limit for the modern Camaro is known to be a bit higher than a comprable powered Corvette. Of course the Z06 will outperform a ZL1 on a road course but only if you have the driving skill to get the most out of it.
07-03-2018, 04:11 PM
#78
11k miles. Temp? Engine? Tires? I would say engine was at a normal level. Tires were still somewhat cold I'd guess. I'm basing that on an assumption that a car like this has tires that might have a high optimum temperature (track focused) and would not get hot from normal driving with a few pulls here and there. Total driving time was maybe 15 minutes. Pulls done around 10 minute mark.
07-03-2018, 04:28 PM
#79
Fell in love with C7 and was looking at getting one. Possibly Z06. Finally got to drive a C7 but only the Grand Sport or base model without Z51 package. So in track mode, I floored the manual trans car and was underwhelmed. It moved fast but I thought it would be more violent considering the 500+ HP, track mode and tons of torque. Now, this car was no slouch for sure but acceleration was somewhat aggressive at most. I was not thrown back in the seat and pressed into the seat as I winded through the gears. Is this normal? Now, I had a 130LB passenger and most of my hard acceleration experience has been with no passengers, but how much can 130LBs matter in terms of the viceral feeling under hard acceleration?
Now some context. My experience is somewhat limited. Most of my experience with high performance vehicles is on the extreme side; Gallardo, Murcielago, 458 Ferrari, V10 M5, Replica Cobra with Roush 500HP engines, or on the lower side like 320HP NA flat 6 Porche, 300 HP G35, Base model Camaro from 2016.. So I don't know what a "heavy" 500HP RWD sport car is supposed to feel like. Never driven a comparable Mustang or Audi or anything between 3200 and 3500 LBs with near 500HP. So are you surprised that I was underwhelmed? Maybe I need to look up power to weight on all these cars and see where the C7 stacks up?
Also, forget about power. If I want the most nimble and fast Chevy for really technical tracks. A car that does the best for a bunch of fast and tight turns (not sweepers but winding country roads that might make many drivers nervous without the right cars). Which is the one to get? C7 or Camaro ZL1? Let's say you were going to be forced to race at incredible speeds around a winding mountain road were if you slide of the road you will fall thousands of feet to your death....which car would you drive? Stock Z06 or Stock ZL1? How about if you were going to drive at safer speeds but would have your girlfriend in the car who would dump you if you scare her too much...which would you drive? This means...which care FEELS the most stable in sharp fast turns even if it's not necessarily ACTUALLY more stable? Just because a car maybe giving you a LOT of feedback that your mind takes as instability, that does not mean the traction levels are any less. What you FEEL is not a scientific measure of traction levels. So:
Which one has traction and stability levels that are like being on rails?
Which one FEELS like it's on rails even if it's not?
Thanks in advance!
BTW...as if this was not tough enough already...I just checked out the ZR1....damn!! I feel like I need them both!
Also, if I was to create a dream car, it would be based on a Lotus car as for handling, but pull to 60MPH in 3 seconds or less, be obnoxiously loud WHEN you beat on it, but reasonable at idle, have a reasonable street mode that feels OK for comfort, but driven hard in a "track mode" would give a lot of feedback and be very viceral (push you back in seat, aggressive gear shifts), put a smile on your face just cruising town. Priorities are in order: HANDLING (on rails, precise), HARD acceleration, loud (sounds angry).
Now some context. My experience is somewhat limited. Most of my experience with high performance vehicles is on the extreme side; Gallardo, Murcielago, 458 Ferrari, V10 M5, Replica Cobra with Roush 500HP engines, or on the lower side like 320HP NA flat 6 Porche, 300 HP G35, Base model Camaro from 2016.. So I don't know what a "heavy" 500HP RWD sport car is supposed to feel like. Never driven a comparable Mustang or Audi or anything between 3200 and 3500 LBs with near 500HP. So are you surprised that I was underwhelmed? Maybe I need to look up power to weight on all these cars and see where the C7 stacks up?
Also, forget about power. If I want the most nimble and fast Chevy for really technical tracks. A car that does the best for a bunch of fast and tight turns (not sweepers but winding country roads that might make many drivers nervous without the right cars). Which is the one to get? C7 or Camaro ZL1? Let's say you were going to be forced to race at incredible speeds around a winding mountain road were if you slide of the road you will fall thousands of feet to your death....which car would you drive? Stock Z06 or Stock ZL1? How about if you were going to drive at safer speeds but would have your girlfriend in the car who would dump you if you scare her too much...which would you drive? This means...which care FEELS the most stable in sharp fast turns even if it's not necessarily ACTUALLY more stable? Just because a car maybe giving you a LOT of feedback that your mind takes as instability, that does not mean the traction levels are any less. What you FEEL is not a scientific measure of traction levels. So:
Which one has traction and stability levels that are like being on rails?
Which one FEELS like it's on rails even if it's not?
Thanks in advance!
BTW...as if this was not tough enough already...I just checked out the ZR1....damn!! I feel like I need them both!
Also, if I was to create a dream car, it would be based on a Lotus car as for handling, but pull to 60MPH in 3 seconds or less, be obnoxiously loud WHEN you beat on it, but reasonable at idle, have a reasonable street mode that feels OK for comfort, but driven hard in a "track mode" would give a lot of feedback and be very viceral (push you back in seat, aggressive gear shifts), put a smile on your face just cruising town. Priorities are in order: HANDLING (on rails, precise), HARD acceleration, loud (sounds angry).
07-03-2018, 04:31 PM
#80
Intermediate
