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2017 Corvette Grand Sport blown engine

 
Old 05-12-2019, 06:50 AM
  #21  
Tom Letkewicz
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The last response is exactly why I became concerned. It was the way the dealership presented the findings to me. He asked what happened and because I am an honest person I told him I was coming into a turn at a track event, downshifted, the car swerved a bit and the engine just shut down. Once he heard track, his attitude was driver error. The dealership said the only way to find the source of the problem was to tear down the engine(cost of $130) have an engineer come in, and based on the tear down, determine if it was part failure or driver error. If its determined to be driver error I am on the hook for the $1300 tear down as well as everything else. As soon as he told me that my brain was telling me there trying to pin an engine failure on me and my worry set in. The service manager at the dealership also stated these LT1 engines are "pretty much bulletproof"---another reason for my concern. The dealership had the car for two weeks and there diagnosis was, " There is a hole in the left side of the block. Checked the calibrations. The calibrations look correct. The oil life is at 29%. There is a mobil 1 oil filtered installed. 5194 miles." Now the 29% oil life is me not resetting this each time I change the oil. What's interesting is the dealership says GM dictates the procedure for warranty but GM says its up to the dealership to determine warranty.
I appreciate all of the responses you all have provided. Its my first corvette and I do track the car but I do not abuse the car even on track.

I have since picked up the car and will take to the dealership I originally bought the car from. I will let them tear down the engine if that is required by warranty, but when there is a hole in the engine block and the evidence does not show driver error it seems to me a tear down is not necessary. Just an engine replacement under warranty.

Sorry for the length. Thanks
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:48 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Tom Letkewicz View Post
The last response is exactly why I became concerned. It was the way the dealership presented the findings to me. He asked what happened and because I am an honest person I told him I was coming into a turn at a track event, downshifted, the car swerved a bit and the engine just shut down. Once he heard track, his attitude was driver error. The dealership said the only way to find the source of the problem was to tear down the engine(cost of $130) have an engineer come in, and based on the tear down, determine if it was part failure or driver error. If its determined to be driver error I am on the hook for the $1300 tear down as well as everything else. As soon as he told me that my brain was telling me there trying to pin an engine failure on me and my worry set in. The service manager at the dealership also stated these LT1 engines are "pretty much bulletproof"---another reason for my concern. The dealership had the car for two weeks and there diagnosis was, " There is a hole in the left side of the block. Checked the calibrations. The calibrations look correct. The oil life is at 29%. There is a mobil 1 oil filtered installed. 5194 miles." Now the 29% oil life is me not resetting this each time I change the oil. What's interesting is the dealership says GM dictates the procedure for warranty but GM says its up to the dealership to determine warranty.
I appreciate all of the responses you all have provided. Its my first corvette and I do track the car but I do not abuse the car even on track.

I have since picked up the car and will take to the dealership I originally bought the car from. I will let them tear down the engine if that is required by warranty, but when there is a hole in the engine block and the evidence does not show driver error it seems to me a tear down is not necessary. Just an engine replacement under warranty.

Sorry for the length. Thanks
It would be somewhat misleading to say the dealership determines warranty. Ultimately it does not. The dealer is responsible to GM to determine cause of failure whether it be a part, driver error, or any other cause. Once the repair is completed, GM has the right to recall any parts that are replaced in the repair process for inspection. Should they decide the dealer's findings are in error, they can disallow the repair and charge the dealer back for the entire claim. For this reason, it is in the dealer's best interest to tear the engine down and have a GM Field Engineer's opinion as to cause of failure before repairing the vehicle.

You took the vehicle to a dealership where you did not purchase the vehicle and told them you broke it on a race track. This is something you did not disclose in your original post. You must understand, the dealer is now involved in what could be more than a $10,000 repair they are responsible to collect for from someone. Any prudent dealer is going to make sure they are going to follow the "book" exactly. Most any state is going to have laws requiring the dealer to disclose a good faith estimate of repairs or they are not going to be able to collect their bill. Thus, the reaction you received from the dealer.

It is in fact a good move to return the vehicle to where you purchased. They do have an investment in you and your car where no other dealer does. You should though be aware that they will as well make sure everything is in order before proceeding.
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Old 05-12-2019, 08:19 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Tom Letkewicz View Post
The last response is exactly why I became concerned. It was the way the dealership presented the findings to me. He asked what happened and because I am an honest person I told him I was coming into a turn at a track event, downshifted, the car swerved a bit and the engine just shut down. Once he heard track, his attitude was driver error. The dealership said the only way to find the source of the problem was to tear down the engine(cost of $130) have an engineer come in, and based on the tear down, determine if it was part failure or driver error. If its determined to be driver error I am on the hook for the $1300 tear down as well as everything else. As soon as he told me that my brain was telling me there trying to pin an engine failure on me and my worry set in. The service manager at the dealership also stated these LT1 engines are "pretty much bulletproof"---another reason for my concern. The dealership had the car for two weeks and there diagnosis was, " There is a hole in the left side of the block. Checked the calibrations. The calibrations look correct. The oil life is at 29%. There is a mobil 1 oil filtered installed. 5194 miles." Now the 29% oil life is me not resetting this each time I change the oil. What's interesting is the dealership says GM dictates the procedure for warranty but GM says its up to the dealership to determine warranty.
I appreciate all of the responses you all have provided. Its my first corvette and I do track the car but I do not abuse the car even on track.

I have since picked up the car and will take to the dealership I originally bought the car from. I will let them tear down the engine if that is required by warranty, but when there is a hole in the engine block and the evidence does not show driver error it seems to me a tear down is not necessary. Just an engine replacement under warranty.

Sorry for the length. Thanks
Well, ok. Let's continue on with the "an honest person" trail. Since you were at a track, I'll assume you know there is a procedure for the car as to how to prep per the factory owners manual. Is that correct---you did prep the car per the recommendations in print?

You may not want to answer that in public print, but if you didn't do the prep work, it's a toss up as to how the outcome goes. jmo.
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:16 AM
  #24  
Tom Letkewicz
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I was well aware of the track prep for the car. Read it several times and followed it.

I agree with GM inspecting the car, but I will return to my original question:

How can an engineer look at damage parts and determine the parts were damaged by driver abuse?
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:39 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Tom Letkewicz View Post
I was well aware of the track prep for the car. Read it several times and followed it.

I agree with GM inspecting the car, but I will return to my original question:

How can an engineer look at damage parts and determine the parts were damaged by driver abuse?
Tom,
I (we) feel your pain right now! We all hope for the outcome to be in your favor. Honesty IS the best policy! Too bad GM doesn't live by that standard that concerns certain aspects of our cars, (GS ,ZO6 wheels etc. )
Rich
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:47 AM
  #26  
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Honestly, I think there is a distinct possibility you are going to get stuck for the repair on this. While many believe that because GM publishes a "track prep" procedure, this means the car is a "race car". It really isn't, it's a mass produced great handling fast sports car designed for normal use as a sports car on roads and highways.. IMO GM puts out "track prep" info to provide a bit of a safety margin for the engine and drive train for those wanting to track their car. They do not warranty the car as a race car if you choose to operate it as one (even though many believe that by having a track prep procedure it implies GM does)..

One only has to look at any race team and the cars they run. They have staff of mechanics w/ spare parts and motors. The engines are likely hand built with exact tolerances. These cars suffer their fair share of mechanical issues and DNF's (and they are dedicated race cars). I'm of the opinion that if you decide to race your car, be prepared to replace any and all parts that fail.

I hope they cover the engine...but you can bet they will be going every bit of computer data stored and looking over the failed part w/ a microscope.

Last edited by 1SG_Ret; 05-12-2019 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:50 AM
  #27  
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Why do so many feel that GM is just looking for a way out of doing warranty work and want to put the blame on the operator? That is such a bull **** way of thinking.

I have dealt with GM on so many different issues including two engine failures where one was under warranty and the other out of warranty. Both times GM covered all my costs without question and even went above and beyond my expectations.
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Old 05-12-2019, 11:14 AM
  #28  
Tom Letkewicz
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I will schedule an appointment with the dealership I bought the car from next week and hope for the best. I will however continue to track the car in the end because that is why I bought a high performance car. Tracking and racing are two very different things.


Thanks for all the comments.
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Old 05-12-2019, 12:46 PM
  #29  
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Money shift. I’m no fan of dealership service, but if OP described what he described, THAT is the first thing to come to mind and I would want to see the inside of the engine before I determine who’s paying for it.

If it’s and automatic? Then it’s a different story.
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Old 05-12-2019, 12:57 PM
  #30  
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*Would think any track event would kill the warranty. Wonder it the data collector holds a GPS location for the engine failure?

*Been corrected will not be an automatic kill.

Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 05-13-2019 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 05-12-2019, 01:01 PM
  #31  
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HMMM sounds familiar! A few years back I sold my Z06 with 11,000 miles on it. I literally bought it from a "Old Lady" and the car ran great! I decided to sell it and the guy that bought it called me the next day and said that the engine was blown and that He had to have it towed to a Dealer. The first thing that He asked me if I had any remorse for selling Him the car! I said not no but hell no! The car was in excellent condition,. I then asked when it happened. He was on US40 heading west and got behind a Semi going thru a construction zone posted at 25MPH. He passed the Semi at the end of the zone and that is when the engine blew. The first thing I said to Him was that you missed the shift and over revved the engine! After a little pause, He more or less admitted that this could have been the case! It does not take much to miss a shift and over rev the engine. He learned a $10,000 lesson!
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Old 05-12-2019, 01:17 PM
  #32  
Tom Letkewicz
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When you see the data recorder before the engine blew there was no money shift. I have shown the video to several people that track their cars and they all concluded there was no missed shift and over revving of the engine at the time of engine failure. Will see what happens.

Last edited by Tom Letkewicz; 05-12-2019 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 05-12-2019, 01:23 PM
  #33  
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Like others said. The dealer is following GMs procedures. I don't think you have anything to worry about. Keep us posted.
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Old 05-12-2019, 02:21 PM
  #34  
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Based on your responses, Tom, I also don't think you have too much to worry about. It is the procedure that G M uses. Keep us posted. And yes, you are correct, there is a difference betw. tracking and racing a car. However, there are similarities but at the very best it puts the car in a relatively safer, off-street environment so that wack a doodles don't impede your racing line. .
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Old 05-12-2019, 02:29 PM
  #35  
Tom Letkewicz
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This is a link to the data recording on the lap the engine blew. Engine blows toward the end of the video. Video is a liitle choppy.

https://screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cqhj09ZLfl
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Old 05-12-2019, 02:47 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Tom Letkewicz View Post
I have a 2017 GS with a blown engine. I took it to a dealership and they informed me that they would have to tear engine down and have a GM engineer look at the failed parts and determine if it was part failure or driver error. The engine tear down would cost me $1300 if GM refuses to honor warranty. I asked them how they can determine driver error by looking at failed parts. I never got a definite answer just we have to tear it down to determine the failure. I even have a data recording of the time before and during the engine failure. The recording shows no missed shift or excessive revs. I guess I am looking for some advice on how to handle this and an answer to the question: Can looking at damaged parts after an engine tear down determine if the driver is a fault? Thanks.
That is the process. They don't know whether GM will replace/repair the engine under the warranty until the ECM is checked and they do the tear down to find out what caused the engine failure. The tear down also guides them on whether it is cost effective to repair or replace as the dealer needs to do a repair should cost estimate for GM. Once GM knows the ECM wasn't tuned and the engine wasn't subjected to some driver abuse then they will make their decision on whether to repair or replace. Yes, they can tell certain things from looking at damaged parts. They can tell whether a mechanical over rev caused an issue. Your video will provide some documentation of when the over rev didn't happen but that doesn't mean an over rev didn't happen a day or a week or a month before.

$1300 isn't a bad price for doing the tear down especially if they have to remove the engine to do it. If you are certain you didn't do anything to the engine then everything will be covered by GM. If you actually did something then you will not only pay the $1300 but what else it takes to fix the problem. When my C6Z dropped a valve on the front straight at Watkins Glen all it took was a bore scope in one of the spark plug holes and then taking off one head to find the cause of the problem. When they found the head of the exhaust valve in the intake manifold they pretty much knew what caused the failure and once the head was off everything was self evident.

My daughter was driving home from a work site and had the oil pump in her Pontiac Torrent freeze up. From the moment she saw the engine warning light to the point she could get off the road safely the engine was toast. She went through the same process with all of the same uncertainties but came out OK in the end when they covered the repair.

Bill
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Old 05-12-2019, 02:53 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Tom Letkewicz View Post
This is a link to the data recording on the lap the engine blew. Engine blows toward the end of the video. Video is a liitle choppy.

https://screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cqhj09ZLfl
Looks like you were having a nice run....I didn't see anything out of the ordinary, certainly nothing I haven't seen in countless other similar videos.
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Old 05-12-2019, 03:06 PM
  #38  
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Just watched your video and dont see anything you did wrong. I would say straight mechanical failure from a manufacturing problem especially based on the low mileage you have on the car. Also just got my block back for the machine shop for my c6 and he is a very good machinist and says he has encountered a lot of problems with poor camshaft machining tolerances and says it is not limited to just GM. On mine the block was undersized on some of the cam journals and the theory that GM hones the LS7 cam bearings is I think fictitious or they have really crappy tooling. Mine where undersized on the block which in turn wiped out the cam bearings so if you see your cam bearings down to the copper backing I would say the cam tunnel needs to be honed. Also you cannot hone Babbitt bearings which is what the cam bearings are so it needs block machining if its undersized like mine then they just hone it up to spec otherwise if you have to go over then you are into oversized bearings.
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:34 PM
  #39  
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Did I not see the TACH go over 7K twice?
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:43 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Tom Letkewicz View Post
When you see the data recorder before the engine blew there was no money shift. I have shown the video to several people that track their cars and they all concluded there was no missed shift and over revving of the engine at the time of engine failure. Will see what happens.
Again...If I was having the same conversation, and you told me this happened as you described? No amount of evidence is going to make me NOT want to tear down the engine and see the internals, PERIOD. From the dealership’s perspective it’s just prudent to do due diligence before hand, I.e. ECU dump and inspect the valves before footing the bill.

*I* certainly wouldn’t mention this happened at the track following a braking zone before turn-in, for sure. Especially if I want the manufacturer to cover the cost under warranty.

Sometimes being too honest doesn’t help. I always subscribe to “they only need to know enough to do their job” philosophy. Either way, when they pull the ECU records and take off the head, it won’t be hard to figure out who should be paying for it. The only variable now is if you have a lawyer and how good he is, IMO.

Last edited by The HACK; 05-12-2019 at 04:43 PM.
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