Supercharging the LT1 and Long Term Reliability
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,404
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From: Malverne New York
Supercharging the LT1 and Long Term Reliability
This topic came up in another thread and I thought it was worthy of it's own thread.
While many of us will be supercharging the LT1 in the Stingray, how detrimental is doing this to the LT1 engine, with it's cast pistons and very high compression ratio of 11:5:1? Is the long term inevitably at risk by doing this, regardless of how good a tune may be? Would these supercharged C7's only be able to hold up to occasional WOT burst like drag racing etc, or will they be able to hold up on a road course and track days? I'm Looking for honest answers/explanations from those that know more than me. I was planning on doing this, but don't want to do it if I have to worry about splitting a piston or something.
While many of us will be supercharging the LT1 in the Stingray, how detrimental is doing this to the LT1 engine, with it's cast pistons and very high compression ratio of 11:5:1? Is the long term inevitably at risk by doing this, regardless of how good a tune may be? Would these supercharged C7's only be able to hold up to occasional WOT burst like drag racing etc, or will they be able to hold up on a road course and track days? I'm Looking for honest answers/explanations from those that know more than me. I was planning on doing this, but don't want to do it if I have to worry about splitting a piston or something.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 353
Likes: 16
From: Twister Country
This topic came up in another thread and I thought it was worthy of it's own thread.
While many of us will be supercharging the LT1 in the Stingray, how detrimental is doing this to the LT1 engine, with it's cast pistons and very high compression ratio of 11:5:1? Is the long term inevitably at risk by doing this, regardless of how good a tune may be? Would these supercharged C7's only be able to hold up to occasional WOT burst like drag racing etc, or will they be able to hold up on a road course and track days? I'm Looking for honest answers/explanations from those that know more than me. I was planning on doing this, but don't want to do it if I have to worry about splitting a piston or something.
While many of us will be supercharging the LT1 in the Stingray, how detrimental is doing this to the LT1 engine, with it's cast pistons and very high compression ratio of 11:5:1? Is the long term inevitably at risk by doing this, regardless of how good a tune may be? Would these supercharged C7's only be able to hold up to occasional WOT burst like drag racing etc, or will they be able to hold up on a road course and track days? I'm Looking for honest answers/explanations from those that know more than me. I was planning on doing this, but don't want to do it if I have to worry about splitting a piston or something.
The motor is strong enough, the power levels that all current supercharger kit producers are making is VERY safe.
When on a road course lots of things come into play that do NOT on a dyno, but whats nice about GM is that they have a VERY amazing ECU, that has LOTS of ability to take these factors into consideration. (After all they make a couple supercharged road course monsters, IE: ZR-1)
So as long as your tuner, takes those factors into consideration, you will have NO issues, with lots and lots and lots of supercharged miles.
EA
Last edited by E.A.; Jan 22, 2014 at 07:16 PM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,404
Likes: 7
From: Malverne New York
This question has less to do with the design of the motor, and more to do with "real" tuners, vs. guys that have HPtuners and EFIlive and can make something live on a dyno. Spending weeks to develop a FULL tune, and really getting to know all the tables and how they work on this new E92 ECU......VS. 30min tweaking fuel and the main timing table.
The motor is strong enough, the power levels that all current supercharger kit producers are making is VERY safe.
When on a road course lots of things come into play that do NOT on a dyno, but whats nice about GM is that they have a VERY amazing ECU, that has LOTS of ability to take these factors into consideration. (After all they make a couple supercharged road course monsters, IE: ZR-1)
So as long as your tuner, takes those factors into consideration, you will have NO issues, with lots and lots and lots of supercharged miles.
EA
The motor is strong enough, the power levels that all current supercharger kit producers are making is VERY safe.
When on a road course lots of things come into play that do NOT on a dyno, but whats nice about GM is that they have a VERY amazing ECU, that has LOTS of ability to take these factors into consideration. (After all they make a couple supercharged road course monsters, IE: ZR-1)
So as long as your tuner, takes those factors into consideration, you will have NO issues, with lots and lots and lots of supercharged miles.
EA
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Providing the most proven supercharger kits for your C5/6/7 609-752-0321
That's certainly the answer that makes me happy lol. Let's say that the tuner tuned the car perfectly for the added supercharger. With the LT1 hardware (cast pistons etc) and high compression ratio, is it suitable for running reliable boost? Based on your answer, it sounds like, yes it is suitable. When doing something like that, I wouldn't go to anybody but a well known tuner. When the time comes, I would be going to ECS for the supercharger and tune. Based on what I've read, they are the real deal.
E.A. hit it spot on too.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 878
Likes: 61
From: Louisa, Ky
This topic came up in another thread and I thought it was worthy of it's own thread.
While many of us will be supercharging the LT1 in the Stingray, how detrimental is doing this to the LT1 engine, with it's cast pistons and very high compression ratio of 11:5:1? Is the long term inevitably at risk by doing this, regardless of how good a tune may be? Would these supercharged C7's only be able to hold up to occasional WOT burst like drag racing etc, or will they be able to hold up on a road course and track days? I'm Looking for honest answers/explanations from those that know more than me. I was planning on doing this, but don't want to do it if I have to worry about splitting a piston or something.
While many of us will be supercharging the LT1 in the Stingray, how detrimental is doing this to the LT1 engine, with it's cast pistons and very high compression ratio of 11:5:1? Is the long term inevitably at risk by doing this, regardless of how good a tune may be? Would these supercharged C7's only be able to hold up to occasional WOT burst like drag racing etc, or will they be able to hold up on a road course and track days? I'm Looking for honest answers/explanations from those that know more than me. I was planning on doing this, but don't want to do it if I have to worry about splitting a piston or something.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,885
Likes: 485
From: Cin City
St. Jude Donor '14
Although the C7 has a higher CR, it also has DI so that's an arguable trade off. We've pushed and pushed the CTS V world's LSA (which is very similar on the bottom end) as far as Hyp pistons/rods and the forged crank - even sharing it's 8 bolt pattern. Plenty of Vs running 15-17psi with those PD blowers over spun pushing those 4500lbs cars into the low 10s and even have a couple of clients spraying on top and running high 9s!
A lot of the major reliability will be found in your tune.
A lot of the major reliability will be found in your tune.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,761
Likes: 240
From: Saint Louis MO
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
At the current power levels (sub-600 with 7-8psi max), I highly doubt reliability will be significantly impacted. Many will agree with me here.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,169
Likes: 199
From: Your Sister's Bedroom
The shortblock isn't much different than the lsx engines. With the proper tune and fuel/octane support these engines should have Zero issues being perfectly happy in the low-mid 700whp range all day long.
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Drifting
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,726
Likes: 770
I run 480whp in a 3V 4.6 mustang that put down 265whp stock.
I drive the car hard fairly often, has 20,000 on the clock with the blower, no issues whatsoever.
An LT1 should be able to support just 100 more horsepower reliably for over 100,000 miles.
I drive the car hard fairly often, has 20,000 on the clock with the blower, no issues whatsoever.
An LT1 should be able to support just 100 more horsepower reliably for over 100,000 miles.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,404
Likes: 7
From: Malverne New York
Of course Lucky for me, you guys aren't too far of a ride from me.
I learned the "hard way" with my last car I modded to hell. I did heads and cam on my last car. With that being said, I never want to open the motor ever again on anything but a dedicated track car that I expect to break and fix, break and fix over and over again. I have a feeling the Z06 is gonna be a bit out of my price range. If not, I would certainly have much more peace of mind with that built engine. I'd probably stick with long tubes and a tune and be done if I was able to get the Z.
Lucky for me, you guys aren't too far of a ride from me.I learned the "hard way" with my last car I modded to hell. I did heads and cam on my last car. With that being said, I never want to open the motor ever again on anything but a dedicated track car that I expect to break and fix, break and fix over and over again. I have a feeling the Z06 is gonna be a bit out of my price range. If not, I would certainly have much more peace of mind with that built engine. I'd probably stick with long tubes and a tune and be done if I was able to get the Z.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,404
Likes: 7
From: Malverne New York
Although the C7 has a higher CR, it also has DI so that's an arguable trade off. We've pushed and pushed the CTS V world's LSA (which is very similar on the bottom end) as far as Hyp pistons/rods and the forged crank - even sharing it's 8 bolt pattern. Plenty of Vs running 15-17psi with those PD blowers over spun pushing those 4500lbs cars into the low 10s and even have a couple of clients spraying on top and running high 9s!
A lot of the major reliability will be found in your tune.
A lot of the major reliability will be found in your tune.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,404
Likes: 7
From: Malverne New York
Hopefully not, but I guess time will tell. I remember on the G8 GT, the L76 engine (basically an LS2 with AFM), the DOD lifters were the weak link and absolutely sucked. Maybe the ones used on the LT1 are improved.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,169
Likes: 199
From: Your Sister's Bedroom
Dod has no place in a vette anyways in my opinion. If it concerns you pull the lifters and replace them with regular lsx lifters.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,404
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From: Malverne New York
I agree, but the government doesn't I guess. I think more has to be changed to replace the DOD lifters. I don't remember exactly, but I remember there being more to it when I did the heads and cam on my G8 GT.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Saint Louis MO
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Racer
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 353
Likes: 16
From: Twister Country
Bigger Injectors now exist, as do Cam Shafts with lobe designs for more flow from the high pressure pump. (And tuning software now allows for working with the pump as well)
DOD lifters are more upset about RPM, then anything that has to do with boost. So adding a blower, won't have an effect on the lifters. A lot of guys with DOD cars were changing RPM rev-limiters, and everyone found out really quick what happened.
E.A.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,404
Likes: 7
From: Malverne New York
The Fuel issue, isn't really an issue anymore.
Bigger Injectors now exist, as do Cam Shafts with lobe designs for more flow from the high pressure pump. (And tuning software now allows for working with the pump as well)
DOD lifters are more upset about RPM, then anything that has to do with boost. So adding a blower, won't have an effect on the lifters. A lot of guys with DOD cars were changing RPM rev-limiters, and everyone found out really quick what happened.
E.A.
Bigger Injectors now exist, as do Cam Shafts with lobe designs for more flow from the high pressure pump. (And tuning software now allows for working with the pump as well)
DOD lifters are more upset about RPM, then anything that has to do with boost. So adding a blower, won't have an effect on the lifters. A lot of guys with DOD cars were changing RPM rev-limiters, and everyone found out really quick what happened.
E.A.
Yes, RPM was certainly a problem with DOD lifters. My G8 GT had a 6k rpm limit. Many were bumping that up. After I the heads and cam, mine was bumped to 7k!
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,404
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From: Malverne New York
The only architecture issue that I know of is the direct injection fuel pump being too small for forced induction. This problem has been addressed by GM with the new larger Z06 direct injection fuel pump, but the pump and associated parts are not available yet and will probably be expensive.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,269
Likes: 25
From: Simi Valley Ca
If in fact that is true, I would consider that to be more of a limitation than an issue. It only becomes an issue if you add enough boost to exceed the fuel pumps capabilities. I could be wrong but I would imagine there is still plenty of fuel with the stock fuel pump to lay down some pretty nice forced induction power. If I am not mistaken, that has already been proven to be the case as there are plenty of tunes demonstrating some very good HP numbers with the addition of SC's on stock fuel systems.