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Strange behaviour following eFa CAI install

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Old Sep 5, 2015 | 11:33 AM
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Default Strange behaviour following eFa CAI install

I fired up the engine following a routine installation of the eFa CAI. Immediately noticed that the oil temp reading was ZERO, while the engine coolant temp was around 100F. This, at ambient temps near 80F. Also the radiator fan ran at high speed at the cold startup.

Further noticed that the oil pressure showed 55 psi as opposed to the normal, low 30s psi at startup.

I drove the car around, waiting for the oil temp to get off zero but, it would not happen. Oil pressure remained near 50.

Finally, pulled over, shut the engine off and waited for the screen to go blank. Restarted the car and the oil temp was indicating 163F while the oil pressure settled at a more reasonable 33 psi at idle. As I started driving away, the oil temperature suddenly jumped to 189F.

After that, and this morning, normal behavior. Of course the MAF sensor was disconnected during the CAI install but, I don't see how that would the effect oil temp sensor and pressure reads. Also find it interesting that as long as the oil temp was seen as ZERO by the ECU it also displayed an abnormally high oil pressure value, which seems to indicate that the oil pressure is not an actual measured quantity but, rather, a calculated one.

Anyone experienced anything similar?

BTW - I love the aFe CAI. Definitely better throttle response, wilder sounds and, according to my finely calibrated seat-of-my-pants sensors, more pulling power. My wife asked me how the car ran following my test drive over my favorite twisties; my answer was, "Just fine..., Like Bat Out of Hell" :-)

Last edited by axr6; Sep 5, 2015 at 08:24 PM.
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Old Sep 5, 2015 | 11:47 AM
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that's one reason to disconnect the battery when you are going to be disconnecting sensors, like the MAF. the maf has iat and baro sensor in it as well. they way everything references everything else in today's vehicle it is all connected.

many times when I flash a new tune into my ecm it sets the outside temp to 32 degrees for 5 or so minutes and a restart while it gets recalibrated.
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Old Sep 5, 2015 | 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Higgs Boson
that's one reason to disconnect the battery when you are going to be disconnecting sensors, like the MAF. the maf has iat and baro sensor in it as well. they way everything references everything else in today's vehicle it is all connected.

many times when I flash a new tune into my ecm it sets the outside temp to 32 degrees for 5 or so minutes and a restart while it gets recalibrated.
Thanks for the clarification. It makes perfect sense as you describe it. I have read about disconnecting the battery but, since the instructions did not specify it, I figured it would not be necessary. Now I know better
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Old Sep 8, 2015 | 10:19 PM
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I agree with the following post about what happens with a battery dis connect
ALSO If you read more about the AFE CAI you will find that DIABLO tuners now offer a specific tune for that mod---The re-location of the MAF and larger tube and re-routing causes the MAF reading to read much lower---
In the past you could simply drive your LS corvette about 50 miles or so and your fuel trims woudl eventually "learn out" and settle down---
However the C7 seems to need a computer tune adjustment in order to compensate for the changed airflow signal---
On my 2014 with the Dry AFE after data logging my airflow---I noticed a + 13% compensation during P/T driving was nedded and a wideband verified +7% at WOT----
Bottom line the AFE adds so much airflow that unless it is re -tuned you will not get it's full benefit---Diablo confirms this with their AFE specific tune----
Any tuner with HP or EFILIVE can correct this for you as well---Unless you do something do address this compensation you will not get the full 18RWHP they claim is on the table----And during P/T your fueling may never be "spot on "
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Old Sep 9, 2015 | 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tblu92
I agree with the following post about what happens with a battery dis connect
ALSO If you read more about the AFE CAI you will find that DIABLO tuners now offer a specific tune for that mod---The re-location of the MAF and larger tube and re-routing causes the MAF reading to read much lower---
In the past you could simply drive your LS corvette about 50 miles or so and your fuel trims woudl eventually "learn out" and settle down---
However the C7 seems to need a computer tune adjustment in order to compensate for the changed airflow signal---
On my 2014 with the Dry AFE after data logging my airflow---I noticed a + 13% compensation during P/T driving was nedded and a wideband verified +7% at WOT----
Bottom line the AFE adds so much airflow that unless it is re -tuned you will not get it's full benefit---Diablo confirms this with their AFE specific tune----
Any tuner with HP or EFILIVE can correct this for you as well---Unless you do something do address this compensation you will not get the full 18RWHP they claim is on the table----And during P/T your fueling may never be "spot on "
Thanks for the input. I tried to read all I could find prior to purchasing the aFe CAI and don't recall seeing the recommendations for tuning. Had I seen that I likely would not have ordered it as being in CA, tuning is a risky business...

According to what you're saying the MAF is reading too low? That appears to suggest that the ECU would provide less fuel for the lower MAF reading and cause a LEAN condition? Please confirm. If that is the case it would make running the engine at high loads and RPMs very risky. I do lots of that kind of driving so this is critical info.

Edit: out of concern I called aFe tech line and they assured me that the car "re-learns" for the changed air flows. Of course that is the opposite of what your data logging tells. Hmmm.... how did you obtain the data?

Last edited by axr6; Sep 9, 2015 at 07:36 PM.
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Old Sep 10, 2015 | 08:38 PM
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I have had the same exact issue. First time driving car after 93 AFE tune installed. (afe intake on car for at least 750miles with no tune). I was also beginning to have issues with a 180 degree stat ( slow warm up and slow to maintain 180 degrees) just prior to tune. I did a 75 mile each way trip (150 total) and had 155 to 175 temps during most of the trip. Low temps in the morning, higher in the afternoon but had no issues
Started car today with stock stat put back in, had AFE out with maf disconnected to do the job. High engine fan immediately, stayed parked in my garage to let car get to full temp 195, noticed no oil temp and higher than normal oil pressure. Shut down for 30 seconds, restart, no fan and oil temps/pressure normal. I thought it was the colder water temps and slow warm ups that caused the issue, maybe it was the fact that I unplugged the MAF for 3 hrs? I have unplugged it before but never that long and not the cooler water temp issues.
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Old Sep 10, 2015 | 10:40 PM
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Edit: out of concern I called aFe tech line and they assured me that the car "re-learns" for the changed air flows. Of course that is the opposite of what your data logging tells. Hmmm.... how did you obtain the data?

To answer a few of your concerns
YES the ECM has the ability to "self learn" the fuel trims with about 50-75 miles of driving-- But many times on a C7 it never really learns out completely
As I said on my car it had a +13 % of fuel being added at P/T to compensate for the leaness---This means the ECM is always trying to reach the Stoich value of fuel --On a C7 it's 14.10 AFR-------At P/T that is not really a bad thing---HOWEVER IF you have a + fuel trims at P/T that same % is added to your WOT fuel as well for a lean safety---The ECM will nvever subtract fuel at WOT again as a lean safety
Adding 13% at WOT would make your engine run pig rich and lazy
So what you end up with is an engine that may be somewhat lean at P/T and very rich at WOT--It's confusing----
Even if you added the AFE without tuning Most of the leanness will learn out at P/T and it would be very close--But at WOT it would be very rich---The more positive fuel trims you have at P/T the richer it will be at WOT----That's why many AFE owners complain they don't get the advertised 18 RWHP because the engine is rich----However very safe !!! After tuning and getting all the P/T fuel trims to "0" or slightly negative the WOT fuel will be at the stock commanded AFR and make the 18 RWHP

ALSO I am a tuner of 10 years and all my information is from tuning at least 10 C7's including my own--and spending hours and hours on the data logger investigating how mods affect spark and fueling
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Old Sep 10, 2015 | 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tblu92
Edit: out of concern I called aFe tech line and they assured me that the car "re-learns" for the changed air flows. Of course that is the opposite of what your data logging tells. Hmmm.... how did you obtain the data?

To answer a few of your concerns
YES the ECM has the ability to "self learn" the fuel trims with about 50-75 miles of driving-- But many times on a C7 it never really learns out completely
As I said on my car it had a +13 % of fuel being added at P/T to compensate for the leaness---This means the ECM is always trying to reach the Stoich value of fuel --On a C7 it's 14.10 AFR-------At P/T that is not really a bad thing---HOWEVER IF you have a + fuel trims at P/T that same % is added to your WOT fuel as well for a lean safety---The ECM will nvever subtract fuel at WOT again as a lean safety
Adding 13% at WOT would make your engine run pig rich and lazy
So what you end up with is an engine that may be somewhat lean at P/T and very rich at WOT--It's confusing----
Even if you added the AFE without tuning Most of the leanness will learn out at P/T and it would be very close--But at WOT it would be very rich---The more positive fuel trims you have at P/T the richer it will be at WOT----That's why many AFE owners complain they don't get the advertised 18 RWHP because the engine is rich----However very safe !!! After tuning and getting all the P/T fuel trims to "0" or slightly negative the WOT fuel will be at the stock commanded AFR and make the 18 RWHP

ALSO I am a tuner of 10 years and all my information is from tuning at least 10 C7's including my own--and spending hours and hours on the data logger investigating how mods affect spark and fueling
Thanks a million for the great explanation. Actually, it makes perfect sense when seen through my Tuesday's experiences of driving 200 miles at high elevations (5-8000') My NA engine lost much more power under full, high RPM acceleration up there than I would have expected. Running pig rich would perfectly explain it. Looks like I need to look into tuning. Not sure on the availablity of that in CA. If you (or anyone) can recommend a tuner around Sacramento or the SF Bay Area, I would appreciate it. As I read up on the aFe Diablo tune, it appears to be a 93 octane tune and we only have 91 in CA.
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Old Sep 10, 2015 | 11:28 PM
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A&A is where I would go, but it's 5 something hrs from you. Closer, try Force Fed.
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Old Sep 10, 2015 | 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Higgs Boson
A&A is where I would go, but it's 5 something hrs from you. Closer, try Force Fed.
Thanks Higgs. Force Fed is close to me and I will talk to them to see if they can do the tuning.
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Old Sep 10, 2015 | 11:48 PM
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woops, i meant Synergy Motorsports.
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Old Sep 10, 2015 | 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Higgs Boson
woops, i meant Synergy Motorsports.
Instead of Force Fed? Synergy is farther but, I do travel to Fremont frequently.

Edit: looks like Synergy moved to Livermore. Still close enough for me to go to, if they are willing to tune my '15.

Never mind, found the info regading Force Fed's demise :-).

Last edited by axr6; Sep 11, 2015 at 10:42 AM.
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Old Sep 15, 2015 | 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tblu92
... To answer a few of your concerns
YES the ECM has the ability to "self learn" the fuel trims with about 50-75 miles of driving-- But many times on a C7 it never really learns out completely
As I said on my car it had a +13 % of fuel being added at P/T to compensate for the leaness---This means the ECM is always trying to reach the Stoich value of fuel --On a C7 it's 14.10 AFR-------At P/T that is not really a bad thing---HOWEVER IF you have a + fuel trims at P/T that same % is added to your WOT fuel as well for a lean safety---The ECM will nvever subtract fuel at WOT again as a lean safety
Adding 13% at WOT would make your engine run pig rich and lazy
So what you end up with is an engine that may be somewhat lean at P/T and very rich at WOT--It's confusing----
Even if you added the AFE without tuning Most of the leanness will learn out at P/T and it would be very close--But at WOT it would be very rich---The more positive fuel trims you have at P/T the richer it will be at WOT----That's why many AFE owners complain they don't get the advertised 18 RWHP because the engine is rich----However very safe !!! After tuning and getting all the P/T fuel trims to "0" or slightly negative the WOT fuel will be at the stock commanded AFR and make the 18 RWHP

ALSO I am a tuner of 10 years and all my information is from tuning at least 10 C7's including my own--and spending hours and hours on the data logger investigating how mods affect spark and fueling
I used my ELM327 bluetooth adapter + Torque app + Android phone to keep an eye on my LTFT numbers after installing the aFe CAI and having driven over 200 miles, enough for the car to adapt.

As it seems the car does adapt, however, not perfectly as a tune could calibrate it. My numbers were as follows:

PT (part throttle) 0 - (+)5.5. Bank2 trended about 2 whole numbers higher than Bank1. With any kind of a light to moderate throttle the numbers were close to 0.

WOT (Wide Open Throttle). Highest read was -5.5. Range was -3.5 to - 4.5 on the average.

Those values seem Ok to me. Not perfect but, they are without any tune and without any other mods to the car. It is a '15 A8. Since according to "xp800's" recently posted dyno numbers the aFe CAI tune adds nothing in terms of additional power, I think I live with this as I don't want to go down that slippery slope of the CAI first, then tune, then... CA just does not have a sense of humor when it comes to allowing any mods, including the CAI.
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Old Sep 16, 2015 | 03:24 AM
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Might want to look at whats going on. Some say the AFE throws the A/F off. I would at least look at the long term trims and see where they are.
Sorry didn't see your above post!
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