2016 Z51 On Track?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 63
I don't know why you would state that, "there should be no issues on mountain roads".
Have you truly tried running in canyon roads, hot weather, near redline in 2nd and 3rd gears? I have, since I live in such environment. In 80F+ ambient I can reach 290F oil in less than 10 minutes. If I kept going I would, no doubt, be over 300F and in limp mode. As it seems, I don't think that there are too many people who experience such hard road driving in a C7.
Have you truly tried running in canyon roads, hot weather, near redline in 2nd and 3rd gears? I have, since I live in such environment. In 80F+ ambient I can reach 290F oil in less than 10 minutes. If I kept going I would, no doubt, be over 300F and in limp mode. As it seems, I don't think that there are too many people who experience such hard road driving in a C7.
There certainly is a problem, but I bought the car so it's my problem now. I doubt GM will be helpful, they rarely are.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 252
Likes: 52
thx
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,673
Likes: 199
Just bought the Z06. Haven't tracked it yet but there are several aftermarket cooling solutions that are coming soon for Z06.
The bulletin that you are referring to states that anyone who is planning to track the Z06 for extended periods are encouraged to go with a manual car instead of automatic or use paddle shift and select higher gears when possible.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 252
Likes: 52
I have owned 2015 Z51 which I have tracked in advance level before switching to 2016 Z06. This is what the Z51 needs:
Brakes, yes they are bad. Wrapped the front rotors in 3 session. You need front AP Essex BBK and better rear pads.
Overheating, get Ron Davis radiator and you will be fine. Swap to Z06 grille to allow more air flow to the radiator.
M7 transmission, swap to Z06 transmission cooler and Z06 rear fender intake.
With the above, you will enjoy the car and not worry about overheating or brake issues.
Brakes, yes they are bad. Wrapped the front rotors in 3 session. You need front AP Essex BBK and better rear pads.
Overheating, get Ron Davis radiator and you will be fine. Swap to Z06 grille to allow more air flow to the radiator.
M7 transmission, swap to Z06 transmission cooler and Z06 rear fender intake.
With the above, you will enjoy the car and not worry about overheating or brake issues.
- Did the Z06 not have any overheating issues when you switched over? My dealer showed me a bulletin about Z06 track day overheats, but then added the the GM rep told him they're now applying that same bulletin to the Z51.
- Never had brake or transmission issues, but not pushing them hard I guess
- Even just some of the upgrades you mention above is going to add up to almost as much as the difference between a Z51 and a Z06. Sheesh.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 252
Likes: 52
ops, auto correct. warped rotors due to heat. OEM rotors are too soft.
Just bought the Z06. Haven't tracked it yet but there are several aftermarket cooling solutions that are coming soon for Z06.
The bulletin that you are referring to states that anyone who is planning to track the Z06 for extended periods are encouraged to go with a manual car instead of automatic or use paddle shift and select higher gears when possible.
Just bought the Z06. Haven't tracked it yet but there are several aftermarket cooling solutions that are coming soon for Z06.
The bulletin that you are referring to states that anyone who is planning to track the Z06 for extended periods are encouraged to go with a manual car instead of automatic or use paddle shift and select higher gears when possible.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
My easiest solution now would be an aftermarket oil cooler I'm thinking.
One system compliments the other (water/oil)
Track capable cars sure. Race cars, no. Even a purpose built one will nickel and dime ya try and enjoy it.
Last edited by cv67; Mar 6, 2016 at 01:33 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,673
Likes: 199
- Define "wrapped" please. Do you mean warped?
- Did the Z06 not have any overheating issues when you switched over? My dealer showed me a bulletin about Z06 track day overheats, but then added the the GM rep told him they're now applying that same bulletin to the Z51.
- Never had brake or transmission issues, but not pushing them hard I guess
- Even just some of the upgrades you mention above is going to add up to almost as much as the difference between a Z51 and a Z06. Sheesh.
- Did the Z06 not have any overheating issues when you switched over? My dealer showed me a bulletin about Z06 track day overheats, but then added the the GM rep told him they're now applying that same bulletin to the Z51.
- Never had brake or transmission issues, but not pushing them hard I guess
- Even just some of the upgrades you mention above is going to add up to almost as much as the difference between a Z51 and a Z06. Sheesh.
Your dealer as most dealers don't know what they are talking about.
push is a relative term. Yes, at some pace there will be no issues with OEM stuff.
Unless you buy a GT3 or ACR (track ready cars), you need to spend 5k to 10k minimum for track upgrades unfortunately.
Last edited by 5thGear; Mar 6, 2016 at 02:45 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,673
Likes: 199
Thanks, we're crossing paths. My easiest solution now would be an aftermarket oil cooler I'm thinking. There haven't been any coolant overheat issues at all, so not sure if decreased coolant temps as with a Ron Davis radiator would cool down the oil temp enough to keep it reliably below red line.
Ron Davis with Z06 grille will be sufficient for Z51. I have tracked my 2015 Z51 in 90 F ambient in advance level at ACS without overheating. Oil would not exceed 280F at the end of 25 minutes session. I would have had even better results if I didn't have massive transmission cooler for my A8 blocking the radiator. My upgrades did cost me close to 10k but my Z51 was the only car running without overheating that day.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,431
Likes: 77
From: Lake Charles Louisiana
Ali thinks for continuing to give insight and help the z51 peeps. I follow a lot of the z06 stuff as well as thee same
Problems occur to a degree.
Luckily I haven't had afm failure or overheat (Haven't ran in hot temps either)
I have had my fair share of tearing up some things though.
Also on stock rotors and calipers. These things eAt pads for sure when aggressive
Problems occur to a degree.
Luckily I haven't had afm failure or overheat (Haven't ran in hot temps either)
I have had my fair share of tearing up some things though.
Also on stock rotors and calipers. These things eAt pads for sure when aggressive
Racer
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 252
Likes: 52
I have owned 2015 Z51 which I have tracked in advance level before switching to 2016 Z06. This is what the Z51 needs:
Brakes, yes they are bad. Warped the front rotors in 3 session. You need front AP Essex BBK and better rear pads.
Overheating, get Ron Davis radiator and you will be fine. Swap to Z06 grille to allow more air flow to the radiator.
M7 transmission, swap to Z06 transmission cooler and Z06 rear fender intake.
With the above, you will enjoy the car and not worry about overheating or brake issues.
Brakes, yes they are bad. Warped the front rotors in 3 session. You need front AP Essex BBK and better rear pads.
Overheating, get Ron Davis radiator and you will be fine. Swap to Z06 grille to allow more air flow to the radiator.
M7 transmission, swap to Z06 transmission cooler and Z06 rear fender intake.
With the above, you will enjoy the car and not worry about overheating or brake issues.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 790
Likes: 24
From: Pensacola FL
ALIZ51 is the best person to talk to about this issue. He has helped me out a lot. I track my car also. I am getting ready to put in my car an additional transmission cooler (LG) and a new radiator also (LG) I spoke with Lou at LG and he says this should solve my problems. Also I am adding a new Z06 600 watt fan. So with all of that I hope I am able to keep my temps down. I love the car and my wife can race
the automatic. I have not yet had any problems with brakes yet but I am upgrading this year also. Good luck and hope this helps
the automatic. I have not yet had any problems with brakes yet but I am upgrading this year also. Good luck and hope this helps
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 28
From: Aledo, TX
I have a Z51 and this is what I did.
- Installed Wilwoods all around, this was mandatory and made me way more confident at Road America. The stock brakes would leak out of the bleeders from the excessive heat in the system.
- Z06 front grill, Z06 rear fender vents
- Wrapped the exhaust around the tranny and dif
- Radiator from DeWitts
- Ceramic coated headers
- Installed Wilwoods all around, this was mandatory and made me way more confident at Road America. The stock brakes would leak out of the bleeders from the excessive heat in the system.
- Z06 front grill, Z06 rear fender vents
- Wrapped the exhaust around the tranny and dif
- Radiator from DeWitts
- Ceramic coated headers
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 5,692
Likes: 1,451
I don't know why you would state that, "there should be no issues on mountain roads".
Have you truly tried running in canyon roads, hot weather, near redline in 2nd and 3rd gears? I have, since I live in such environment. In 80F+ ambient I can reach 290F oil in less than 10 minutes. If I kept going I would, no doubt, be over 300F and in limp mode. As it seems, I don't think that there are too many people who experience such hard road driving in a C7.
During their initial testing of the C7, two (2) different editors from Edmunds both ran the Z51 into limp mode under exactly the same mountain road driving, mostly in the same 2nd and 3rd gears. That ridiculously ineffective oil/water heat exchanger is totally insufficient for the task. The oil temps go up so fast that I never had any issues with my A8 or the coolant temps as by the time they would reach very high values I long had to shut it down because of the high oil temperatures.
As long as one keeps the RPMs down, all is fine. But, having owned and raced many fast cars, street and dedicated racing cars, sorry to say that I never had one that overheated so quickly under the same driving routine. The been counters at GM obviously built these cars for the coffee & wax crowds and not for the truly enthusiast drivers. Too bad, because if they only spent a couple of hundred dollars more on extra cooling they would have a world beater. Now, it is going to cost at least $2000 with the after market to fix it. (plus, the potential loss of warranty)
Have you truly tried running in canyon roads, hot weather, near redline in 2nd and 3rd gears? I have, since I live in such environment. In 80F+ ambient I can reach 290F oil in less than 10 minutes. If I kept going I would, no doubt, be over 300F and in limp mode. As it seems, I don't think that there are too many people who experience such hard road driving in a C7.
During their initial testing of the C7, two (2) different editors from Edmunds both ran the Z51 into limp mode under exactly the same mountain road driving, mostly in the same 2nd and 3rd gears. That ridiculously ineffective oil/water heat exchanger is totally insufficient for the task. The oil temps go up so fast that I never had any issues with my A8 or the coolant temps as by the time they would reach very high values I long had to shut it down because of the high oil temperatures.
As long as one keeps the RPMs down, all is fine. But, having owned and raced many fast cars, street and dedicated racing cars, sorry to say that I never had one that overheated so quickly under the same driving routine. The been counters at GM obviously built these cars for the coffee & wax crowds and not for the truly enthusiast drivers. Too bad, because if they only spent a couple of hundred dollars more on extra cooling they would have a world beater. Now, it is going to cost at least $2000 with the after market to fix it. (plus, the potential loss of warranty)
My personal experience was that the m7 transmission overheated before the water/oil.
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 91
Likes: 8
This is very damaging to GM. It affirms that the C7 Vette overheats when pushed to high revs and the brakes even for the Z51 are inadequate. I bought a 2015 Z51 believing that was track worthy and now I am told I need to spend $ 10,000+ to use it on track. GM should provide all C7 Z51 owners with the parts needed for track use for free.
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 91
Likes: 8
GM help to fix overheating and braking issues.
Given the problems with engine overheating within the allowed rev limit, GM should provide free of charge the items that can fix the problems. It appears to be a clear warranty issue!
Furthermore, GM should provide free of charge the brake and differential cooling items to all C7 Z51 owners that bought the Z51 under GM claim that it was designed for track use. Owner manual even gives instructions as how to prepare the car for track use. This falls in the category of false advertising if engine and other parts overheat and brake fail by following GM guidelines.
Has anyone that had the problems contacted the GM Customers Relations Office?
Furthermore, GM should provide free of charge the brake and differential cooling items to all C7 Z51 owners that bought the Z51 under GM claim that it was designed for track use. Owner manual even gives instructions as how to prepare the car for track use. This falls in the category of false advertising if engine and other parts overheat and brake fail by following GM guidelines.
Has anyone that had the problems contacted the GM Customers Relations Office?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 790
Likes: 24
From: Pensacola FL
I went as far as escalating to a formal complaint an long story short got NO where but GM blowing me off. I even have a friend who knows a GM executive an still was swept away from. GM knows the problem an unfortunately will do nothing for us even though GM portrayed the car as a "track ready car" an I have severa articles saying this. One article is even from Chevrolet!
Given the problems with engine overheating within the allowed rev limit, GM should provide free of charge the items that can fix the problems. It appears to be a clear warranty issue!
Furthermore, GM should provide free of charge the brake and differential cooling items to all C7 Z51 owners that bought the Z51 under GM claim that it was designed for track use. Owner manual even gives instructions as how to prepare the car for track use. This falls in the category of false advertising if engine and other parts overheat and brake fail by following GM guidelines.
Has anyone that had the problems contacted the GM Customers Relations Office?
Furthermore, GM should provide free of charge the brake and differential cooling items to all C7 Z51 owners that bought the Z51 under GM claim that it was designed for track use. Owner manual even gives instructions as how to prepare the car for track use. This falls in the category of false advertising if engine and other parts overheat and brake fail by following GM guidelines.
Has anyone that had the problems contacted the GM Customers Relations Office?
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 109
Likes: 49
From: Fort Lauderdale FL
I have a Z51 and this is what I did.
- Installed Wilwoods all around, this was mandatory and made me way more confident at Road America. The stock brakes would leak out of the bleeders from the excessive heat in the system.
- Z06 front grill, Z06 rear fender vents
- Wrapped the exhaust around the tranny and dif
- Radiator from DeWitts
- Ceramic coated headers
- Installed Wilwoods all around, this was mandatory and made me way more confident at Road America. The stock brakes would leak out of the bleeders from the excessive heat in the system.
- Z06 front grill, Z06 rear fender vents
- Wrapped the exhaust around the tranny and dif
- Radiator from DeWitts
- Ceramic coated headers
After three track days (3 - 25 min sessions each), I've burned through my tires, completely warped my brake rotors and I'm constantly driving with my transmission temperature pegged at 300*. It's nice that Chevy honors the warranty even after tracking the car but obviously the car isn't really track ready.
I'm worried that us convertible owners are in a worse position than the hard tops because we don't have those extra vent over the rear wheels. Someone told me that those are supply air to the tranny cooler. Do you know if that's true? Where did you get all your work done?
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 62
From: South Lyon MI
Originally Posted by Stanimal
You did all this to your convertible? I've been getting a little bit of heat from some of the track day organizers because I'm running a convertible. I had to agree with one of them to run in sport mode. I agreed, but it was sport mode 2 in the track settings. LOL.
After three track days (3 - 25 min sessions each), I've burned through my tires, completely warped my brake rotors and I'm constantly driving with my transmission temperature pegged at 300*. It's nice that Chevy honors the warranty even after tracking the car but obviously the car isn't really track ready.
I'm worried that us convertible owners are in a worse position than the hard tops because we don't have those extra vent over the rear wheels. Someone told me that those are supply air to the tranny cooler. Do you know if that's true? Where did you get all your work done?
After three track days (3 - 25 min sessions each), I've burned through my tires, completely warped my brake rotors and I'm constantly driving with my transmission temperature pegged at 300*. It's nice that Chevy honors the warranty even after tracking the car but obviously the car isn't really track ready.
I'm worried that us convertible owners are in a worse position than the hard tops because we don't have those extra vent over the rear wheels. Someone told me that those are supply air to the tranny cooler. Do you know if that's true? Where did you get all your work done?
Either way, I was just at spring mountain last week and they use everything stock and don't seem to have much issue. They do teach a different style of driving that's conducive to not burning the car up but we pounded those things for 25-30 minutes at a time and with a cool down lap, they were ok. Brakes, Trans, and engine seemed to withstand the abuse.
If you're smoking your brakes, you may need to adjust your driving style. Going fast is about being smooth not using up ever bit of every resource you have to get around a track. A great driver is able to adjust to changing tire and brake conditions. A friend of mine has a T1 car that he uses stock C5 brakes on and Manages to win everything around here without brake issues. I've not had any troubles with tracking my car either. I did buy a coupe with the intention of tracking it though. Why would you buy a vert if that was your intention?
Sport mode may be helping kill your brakes too. Take all of the nannies off and you may reduce brake temps.
Last edited by AUTO_X_AL; Mar 18, 2016 at 07:20 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,683
Likes: 84
To the guys who warped their rotors, have you used the "brake cooling rings" that came with the car?
My rotors needed replacing as well, but I'm thinking it could be largely due to not doing enough of a cool down and/or tracking them without replacing the pads early enough.
Installing then removing the cooling rings seems like an annoying extra step for the random track day - does it make much difference?
I ordered the Z06 grille which seems like it should help cool the front brakes.
My rotors needed replacing as well, but I'm thinking it could be largely due to not doing enough of a cool down and/or tracking them without replacing the pads early enough.
Installing then removing the cooling rings seems like an annoying extra step for the random track day - does it make much difference?
I ordered the Z06 grille which seems like it should help cool the front brakes.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 404
Likes: 42
From: San Antonio Tx
I ran my 2015 Z51 at Circuit or the Americas on Sunday. My car is stock except for Carbotech XP10s in front and XP8s in rear, Motul 600 brake fluid, and the Z06 grill. My Z51 and my buddies C6 GS where the only two cars running in our group at speed that didn't have some sort of heat related issue. Tempature got up to 86 degrees in the afternoon. It was my first time at the circuit so I wasn't running super fast times buy not slow ones either. My average lap time was 2:48-9. With the fastest lap being 2:44.
Achmed - Personally I wouldn't mess with the cooling rings.
Achmed - Personally I wouldn't mess with the cooling rings.
Last edited by silky1; Mar 18, 2016 at 05:58 PM.