Good HPDE/street alignment setup?
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 15
Likes: 3
Good HPDE/street alignment setup?
Hmm, reading many threads, seems like the Z06 racers like to run +0.8 caster on the rear, with a touch of toe-OUT. For my first track day, I'm debating whether to try the GM track specs or something custom, which seems like a bad idea since I don't know what I'm doing quite yet.
Has anyone had success with positive rear caster and toe-out type setups on base or Z51 cars? Supposedly, that tames the Z06 oversteer, though I "only" have a Z51, so maybe I don't need to worry about snap oversteer as much?
I'm also concerned with tire wear. I've read that toe is what kills tires, but even so - is -2.0 degrees of camber at each corner going to be OK on the street? I need to drive the car between cities in Texas when doing track days, so there will be many street miles on this car. If that much camber won't kill the tires, I would just leave it at that, but I do notice "street" alignments tend to run less, like -1.3 or so.
Has anyone had success with positive rear caster and toe-out type setups on base or Z51 cars? Supposedly, that tames the Z06 oversteer, though I "only" have a Z51, so maybe I don't need to worry about snap oversteer as much?
I'm also concerned with tire wear. I've read that toe is what kills tires, but even so - is -2.0 degrees of camber at each corner going to be OK on the street? I need to drive the car between cities in Texas when doing track days, so there will be many street miles on this car. If that much camber won't kill the tires, I would just leave it at that, but I do notice "street" alignments tend to run less, like -1.3 or so.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,961
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From: Texas Hill Country
you need a different alignment for the street and track if you truly want to do it right.
I typically run about -1 camber all the way around, 0 toe all the way around, and as much caster as I can get in the front for street driving.
if i was to put it on the road course I would use DSC alignment specs with positive rear caster and some toe out, IMO.
I typically run about -1 camber all the way around, 0 toe all the way around, and as much caster as I can get in the front for street driving.
if i was to put it on the road course I would use DSC alignment specs with positive rear caster and some toe out, IMO.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,785
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Alignment will be the least of your issues. If you have little to no HPDE experience, if the car is stock, worry about your line, and braking points. Trust me, you'll have a hard enough time doing that, without a car that may give you .02 more G of lateral grip, but also be far less forgiving of being a ham fisted beginner.
The car will be far more capable than you are. Work on making you better.
The car will be far more capable than you are. Work on making you better.
Last edited by rrsperry; Jan 10, 2017 at 08:54 AM.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 15
Likes: 3
rrsperry: So, you recommend just using the factory street settings then?
Even if I'm not changing the alignment, I do plan on getting the car aligned by a reputable shop, given the horror stories I've read about how these cars come from the factory.
Even if I'm not changing the alignment, I do plan on getting the car aligned by a reputable shop, given the horror stories I've read about how these cars come from the factory.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,036
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From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
The horror story comes when they all tell you they don't have the tools to do the complete job. Most dealers don't have the tools to measure rear caster and far fewer independent shops will have them. One of the tools is specific to the C7 Corvette and the other is specific to the C7, the Pontiac Solstice and the Saturn Skye. How many indie shops will have $1K of tools just waiting around for one of those 3 cars to show up in the driveway?
Bill
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 15
Likes: 3
I have a local performance shop, which I've used before for non-c7 cars, that specifically stated having the rear caster tools. I'm heading there tomorrow, and still debating what numbers to ask for - they've done C7 alignment before so they might have some suggestions.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...tting-sad.html
^This thread, and the thread it links to in turn were what I was reading when I saw the 0.8 rear caster + toe out idea. I'm leaning toward the DSC street alignment specs - -1.2 camber both sides, 0.5mm toe in front / out rear, and 0.7 rear caster. Hmm, wonder if that 0.5mm is supposed to be degrees...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,434
Likes: 411
From: Texas
You need a proper reasonably aggressive alignment to run track days. I wouldn't worry too much about your wear on the highway sections in between. Even though the aggressive alignment causes some wear, you are driving easily so it's not so bad.
Because if you don't have any camber, you can destroy tires very quickly at the track. In addition, it won't be that fun. Really just look at your tires as they wear and see if they are wearing fairly even. The negative camber won't be enough for the track, but will be too much for the street, so hopefully the wear ends up about even in the end. Also understand that tires are your primary expense when tracking so, you are going to burn some money out there! There is no getting around that.
Because if you don't have any camber, you can destroy tires very quickly at the track. In addition, it won't be that fun. Really just look at your tires as they wear and see if they are wearing fairly even. The negative camber won't be enough for the track, but will be too much for the street, so hopefully the wear ends up about even in the end. Also understand that tires are your primary expense when tracking so, you are going to burn some money out there! There is no getting around that.
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Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 15
Likes: 3
Thanks for all the advice, everyone!
I had the alignment shop shoot for the DSC track alignment (-2 camber front, -1.7 rear, -0.5mm toe (that's out) all around and +0.7 rear caster). However, they only got -1 degree of camber on the rear, due to the toe not having enough adjustment to get more camber without switching to neutral toe or toe-in. Anyone know why that would be the case? The shop owner suggested the car may need to be lowered a little, but I left things alone for now - as you all stated, I have other things to worry about before I start messing with too many things. Hopefully having -2 camber on front and -1 on rear won't make the car too tail happy, but my previous car is an LS1 Miata, so I'm somewhat used to that
.
The shop had the metal tool and angle guage, and set the rear caster to +0.7 like the DSC .pdf suggests. The as-found alignment was all over the place, so I'm glad I went.
I had the alignment shop shoot for the DSC track alignment (-2 camber front, -1.7 rear, -0.5mm toe (that's out) all around and +0.7 rear caster). However, they only got -1 degree of camber on the rear, due to the toe not having enough adjustment to get more camber without switching to neutral toe or toe-in. Anyone know why that would be the case? The shop owner suggested the car may need to be lowered a little, but I left things alone for now - as you all stated, I have other things to worry about before I start messing with too many things. Hopefully having -2 camber on front and -1 on rear won't make the car too tail happy, but my previous car is an LS1 Miata, so I'm somewhat used to that
.The shop had the metal tool and angle guage, and set the rear caster to +0.7 like the DSC .pdf suggests. The as-found alignment was all over the place, so I'm glad I went.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 15
Likes: 3
Yeah, I found threads saying the same thing - big camber with neutral/out toe requires washer removal. The shop didn't think it would help, since that moves the top of the spindle in, which pulls the toe in, but that is how other members seem to get the alignment they want. Next time I'll tell the shop to pull a washer first.