Base rear shocks question
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 140
Likes: 2
Base rear shocks question
So...since the base car has no rear sway bar, were the rear shocks
valved in a manner to compensate for it? Like higher compression
than one would expect. If that is the case maybe rhe shocks should be replaced when adding a rear bar. Sonce the ride quality get marginal
with Z51 shocks, why nor Bilstein HDs. Still a monotube 45mm
shock?? Or am I over complicating the situation?
if so
valved in a manner to compensate for it? Like higher compression
than one would expect. If that is the case maybe rhe shocks should be replaced when adding a rear bar. Sonce the ride quality get marginal
with Z51 shocks, why nor Bilstein HDs. Still a monotube 45mm
shock?? Or am I over complicating the situation?
if so
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,668
Likes: 849
From: New Jersey
I would guess that Bilsteins HDs have very similar damping as the base factory shocks, and the Bilstein Sport are valved like the Z51 non-magride factory shocks.
If I had a Base car, I would upgrade to the Z51 Magride bars (front and back), and the Bilstein Sport shocks.
If I had a Base car, I would upgrade to the Z51 Magride bars (front and back), and the Bilstein Sport shocks.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 140
Likes: 2
I would guess that Bilsteins HDs have very similar damping as the base factory shocks, and the Bilstein Sport are valved like the Z51 non-magride factory shocks.
If I had a Base car, I would upgrade to the Z51 Magride bars (front and back), and the Bilstein Sport shocks.
If I had a Base car, I would upgrade to the Z51 Magride bars (front and back), and the Bilstein Sport shocks.
The Sports were for lowered cars. The HDs are 45mm shocks like
the Z51s but maybe different valving. Seems like both GM and Bilstein
want to keep things to themselves!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,668
Likes: 849
From: New Jersey
To clarify : The Bilstein Sports CAN be used with lowered cars, but they are fine for non-lowered cars.....The Sports are the higher performance choice, lowered or not.
And no shock manufacturer releases their damping specs...that is their secret recipe....
And no shock manufacturer releases their damping specs...that is their secret recipe....
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 140
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 780
Likes: 94
From: Pittsburgh PA
Since Koni shocks are designed for a bunch of different cars I doubt there is anything about the damping curve that is specific to the C7.
The JOC shocks were designed by Johnny on either a C5 or C6 and I doubt they involved him on the C7.
So both are a general, not custom fit for a C7. The JOC is apparently a customized Bilstein so now I'm wondering which is a better constructed shock, a Bilstein or a Koni. The Koni is adjustable and I assume that adjustment effects both compression and rebound together.
I'm looking for a way to decide since there seem to be no reviews for either on a C7.
The JOC shocks were designed by Johnny on either a C5 or C6 and I doubt they involved him on the C7.
So both are a general, not custom fit for a C7. The JOC is apparently a customized Bilstein so now I'm wondering which is a better constructed shock, a Bilstein or a Koni. The Koni is adjustable and I assume that adjustment effects both compression and rebound together.
I'm looking for a way to decide since there seem to be no reviews for either on a C7.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 140
Likes: 2
Since Koni shocks are designed for a bunch of different cars I doubt there is anything about the damping curve that is specific to the C7.
The JOC shocks were designed by Johnny on either a C5 or C6 and I doubt they involved him on the C7.
So both are a general, not custom fit for a C7. The JOC is apparently a customized Bilstein so now I'm wondering which is a better constructed shock, a Bilstein or a Koni. The Koni is adjustable and I assume that adjustment effects both compression and rebound together.
I'm looking for a way to decide since there seem to be no reviews for either on a C7.
The JOC shocks were designed by Johnny on either a C5 or C6 and I doubt they involved him on the C7.
So both are a general, not custom fit for a C7. The JOC is apparently a customized Bilstein so now I'm wondering which is a better constructed shock, a Bilstein or a Koni. The Koni is adjustable and I assume that adjustment effects both compression and rebound together.
I'm looking for a way to decide since there seem to be no reviews for either on a C7.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 780
Likes: 94
From: Pittsburgh PA
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2004
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Likes: 2
via Virgin River Gorge to the chevy dealer in St. George Ut for the
install. Same route back. The car wanted to understeer through
60mph(marked turns) at 90mph. On way back. No pull on the steering wheel on the same turns. Autocross next month.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 546
Likes: 89
Bigger(46mm), same ride as base. Handles much better. Took I-15
via Virgin River Gorge to the chevy dealer in St. George Ut for the
install. Same route back. The car wanted to understeer through
60mph(marked turns) at 90mph. On way back. No pull on the steering wheel on the same turns. Autocross next month.
via Virgin River Gorge to the chevy dealer in St. George Ut for the
install. Same route back. The car wanted to understeer through
60mph(marked turns) at 90mph. On way back. No pull on the steering wheel on the same turns. Autocross next month.
Race Director
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 10,742
Likes: 629
From: Manheim Pennsylvania
The factory shocks on the base suspension are pretty fast at dampening imperfect roadways. I came from a C6 with magnetic ride, amazingly the C7's base suspension is almost as good. Only time I notice a difference is cresting a slight grade and turning. The base shocks can't quite keep up with the demand and the front tires lose traction for a split second. Nothing scary though.
Last edited by Larry/car; Feb 23, 2017 at 08:59 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,002
Likes: 2,679
The real reason for no rear sway bar on the base car is that the springs act as enough of a sway bar for that suspension setup.
People forget that all a sway bar is a linking member to stabilize the left to right suspension travel without having to completely tie them together as an axle does. Twist beams, watts links, and transverse leaf springs (which the Corvette has) all act like sway bars in ways (the technical/engineering term for sway bars is stabilizer bar, or stab bars, as they stabilize the suspension)
You can modify your damping with the shocks and not necessarily need to upgrade to a high diameter sway bar, it depends on how the increased damping manifests its self in the system. You'd need to drive it and see if you maintained the cars ability to slightly understeer when it reaches the limit. Giving the car too much cross-stiffness can be just as bad as not enough (you can quickly get a car that wants to snap-oversteer).
The spring rate also matters, FWIW.
People forget that all a sway bar is a linking member to stabilize the left to right suspension travel without having to completely tie them together as an axle does. Twist beams, watts links, and transverse leaf springs (which the Corvette has) all act like sway bars in ways (the technical/engineering term for sway bars is stabilizer bar, or stab bars, as they stabilize the suspension)
You can modify your damping with the shocks and not necessarily need to upgrade to a high diameter sway bar, it depends on how the increased damping manifests its self in the system. You'd need to drive it and see if you maintained the cars ability to slightly understeer when it reaches the limit. Giving the car too much cross-stiffness can be just as bad as not enough (you can quickly get a car that wants to snap-oversteer).
The spring rate also matters, FWIW.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,668
Likes: 849
From: New Jersey
Reduced body roll and better wheel control (shock damping) can be felt anytime a car is driven to 10% to 100% of its limits......if you drive your car below 10%, or only on straight smooth roads, then yes, save your money, don't do any of these type of suspension mods.....
Last edited by ersatz928; Feb 24, 2017 at 08:29 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,104
Likes: 626
From: Baton Rouge LA
FWIW, I wanted to tighten up the slight roll I had in my base car and added only a Z51 rear sway bar. I can say that it did what I expected with no non-power oversteer incurred in a year of use. The ride was only slightly stiffened by what I would call a slight "tossy" feel at the rear in some turning situations, which I expected, but overall I find the ride to be as compliant as before.
I based my decision to leave the standard front bar in place while adding the Z51 rear bar on this discussion in the tech section.
I based my decision to leave the standard front bar in place while adding the Z51 rear bar on this discussion in the tech section.
Last edited by iclick; Feb 24, 2017 at 08:15 PM.