do you even see what you are typing? so all your anger boils down to one word, "No." Semantics.

What's wrong? Be honest, anything we can help you with?

 

So, getting back on topic... During WOT A8 manual mode shifts, at what rpm do you need to click the paddle (I.e. command the shift) in order to get the transmission to complete the shift just before redline?

I ask because twice now I have clicked at 5500 (approximately-my best post event observance) and ended up bouncing off the rev limiter before it completed the shift. While I know the computer is smart enough to pre-plan the shift command in advance to result in a redline shift, but I'd like doing it myself. Is the computer sending the shift command at 5400 to get a shift at 6500?? Someone should be able to interrogate the TCM to see how far in advance GM starts the shift sequence.

In my opinion a quicker/tighter shift (total time from click to shift complete) would help A8 manual mode shift timing, accuracy and consistency.

 

A8 is FASTER than an M7. Enough said.

 

It's not an RPM number, it's a time delay, and thus will vary by gear (being longer in first than second, for example).

I don't actually know the answer to the question, but I know some stuff around the question: when the RPM is sweeping up the computer knows you're going to have to shift in some amount of time... let's say that's 300ms. Maybe that means the trans has to start "preparing" for the shift at 500rpm. Then at 6500, it can execute it really quickly.

But if you're in M, I don't know if it's still proactively getting ready. I think it must be but I don't really know... but if not, it'd be easy to bounce off the rev limiter.

I personally wouldn't use the paddles for WOT upshifts. I'd leave it in D, and in fact I do. Then me and the transmission are on the same page, and in agreement of the goal: the fastest acceleration possible.

Once you start trying to second guess the computer you're probably going to make things worse.

All that is a longwinded way of saying "I use the paddles for early upshifts but never for power shifts".

If you want to be able to power shift a car with paddles, it almost needs to have a linear shift delay like a DCT where you can predict the delay.

It might even be faster than a DCT in terms of acceleration, but it'll never be in terms of paddle response. So people can argue all day about which is "better", and they can both be right depending on what "better" means to them.

 

^^Agreed. If you're drag racing, put it in D and let it do its thing...

 

/end argument

Ive had both, I prefer the M7 but no question the A8 is better at WOT, especially for repeatable results. If one wants to be a paddle shifter, maybe they should accept the stick.

 

Actually same for the road course, reportedly. Not saying it's the most fun way. But the A8 can execute shifts in a corner while on two wheels that a human driver would be hard pressed to duplicate (or so the marketing said).

The fastest way around a road course in a ZO6 is with an A8 in drive. While it lasts, of course.

Hey, does it ever get cold in Germany? I have a suggestion...

 

I think they put it in the wall in cold weather, something about not driving it under 40 degrees F....catch 22.

 

IMO, Faster...the only things that really matters in a sports car. I NEVER heard "mine shifters better than yours even though yours is faster"

 

Pretty much agree with all of this.
If I want shifts at max power/redline, the A8 does it better than I can do it with an M7
If I want shifts that give me plenty of grunt out of a corner on a track, I can use the paddles and request a shift when the tach hits 4000, and it shifts soon enough, maybe having revved another 500-800rpm.
Downshifts happen in a heart beat.
I am completely happy with the Z06/7 making this sort of accommodation. Tracking a car is not racing a car.
If you are not, it is simple. Get the M7 and enjoy what you like.

 

First, you already answered your own question. I track my A8, and the ONLY way to be able to run even 15 min on track is to upshift at 5,000 RPM or so. If you wind it more than that you are toast in a matter of minutes.

So yes, I do care how fast it shifts at 5,000 RPM for that reason alone.

Secondly, the real issue is the downshift slowness and unpredictability. Particularly when you are downshifting in a trail braking situation or into a corner, it is very slow, unpredictable and impossible to time the shifts. That can unbalance the car at the wrong time.

Third, even if you ignore the need to upshift to manage heat, there are indeed many situations where you need to upshift before redline on track. Let me just list a few that I have personally needed to execute:

1 - Lime Rock Park coming into the downhill turn. That is a turn that you enter at ˜95MPH and exit at about 110MPH. It is faster, safer and less upsetting to the car to execute the upshift before the turn 1,000 RPM early.

2 - Same thing going into the Esses at Watkins Glen and a couple of other tracks.

3 - Lime Rock Park and other tracks with sound limits, typically located at the heavy acceleration areas - in those tracks you need to upshift to be able to play. And you want to upshift without losing a full second of acceleration power.

I could go on and on and on. But, if you are trying to excuse a 1 second delay for upshifts and downshifts as "never really needed" you are on thing ice.

A performance car with a paddle shift automatic NEEDS to respond quickly to shift commands. Anything less than that is sup-par engineering. Ricardo, Porsche, BMW, all managed to do it. Chevy does not have a valid excuse not to do it.





P.S. Having said all of the above, I don't want to leave anyone with the impression that the A8 is unusable or underivable on track. It is not. But you do need to know its limitations and manage it and/or work around them.

 

^^^ You're talking about mitigating overheating, I'm talking about performance. Sure, you might need to upshift early so you don't overheat, but that's got nothing to do with the trans performance, which is all I'm talking about.

If you drive it in D, it'll be in the right gear. Why would you want to be in a different one, and why would I care how fast it shifts to the wrong gear?

 

This is based on an assumption.

Being a human is about having the human experience. You do realize all this auto and computer talk is you giving away your rights, don't you?

Whether calculated as right by a computer or just simply what I want, the car is going to do what I tell it to do, not the other way around.

 

You must have have stopped reading after the first point of his three...

 

Anyone wanting a DCT should buy one quick. They are headed the way of the dodo bird. Both BMW and Audi have announced that future cars will have automatics not DCTs. Besides their press releases or quotes take a look at the newly announced M5 for 2018. TT 600hp 4.4 liter V8 with an A8 not a DCT. The Audi 2018 A5 and S5 has an A8. No longer available with a DCT.

So if you can't learn to drive our A8, then get an M7.

 

The A8 would be fine if it wasn't junk. As far as DCT's go, let me know when Ferrari, Porsche, McLaren, etc, drop them.

 

Porsche has been using Automatics for years. Their Tiptronic S is a torque converter automatic and was the automatic in the Turbo S 911 just a few years ago. The PDK is, of course, a DC.

Ferrari hasn't used a torque converter yet, but did go the way BMW did 10 years ago with a manual that was clutchless. BMW's was the SMG, Ferrari's was the Valeo. Even built an F40 with a Valeo transmission.

Why BMW and Audi have decided to abandon the DCT, I don't know but both have announced that is happening and in favor of a torque converter A8.

 

fuel mileage (free coasting) and NVH. Not performance or track use in track cars. and they surely won't have GM coding their TCMs either.

Its not the A8 itself is bad, it's that it's the wrong application for a Corvette combined with GM using kindergartners to program them coupled with trying to lock the torque converter almost all the time and using the cheapest possible parts possible.

But that's why the Corvette is so inexpensive, right?

 

Great video. Car sounds awesome in track mode and NPP.

 

Many thanks!!