GS - LT1 Vararam install with Dyno Results...
11-16-2017, 04:57 PM
#61
Supporting Vendor
Now, no one at the dealership is checking them by doing a resistance test. They just plug the car into the computer, run a scan and say the magic words that many vehicle owners have heard before.
"WE don't see anything wrong"
Then they send you down the road.
What that means is "Within Tolerance for an unaltered vehicle"
These meters are not weak or lazy, they are outrageously strong.
The real issue is that they have a reverse output to the ECM (my personal simplified term for it)
Example: Lets say the temp drops from 90 down to 60 deg. The ECM should add maybe 3-4% fuel trim. If its the 1% meter ,as I call it, the ECM will take away 3-4% fuel trim! Apposite reaction!
Now All OEM's build in a +or- % into every vehicle for DA variation and fuel variation. It varies from vehicle to vehicle. The C7 is 10%. So unless it triggers a light for the dealerships computer to read , the owner will never know and the dealer will say , we don't see anything wrong. "Its in Tolerance"
I call it the 1% meter because "less than 1%" of GM vehicles have it. Yes, that's ALL GM vehicles not just C7's ,it covers Camaros , Trucks , SUV's etc..
When I come across one , the only thing to do is to replace it.
One easy way to spot it is that the cars that have it will dyno about 20 Rear wheel HP higher than other "stock" cars on the same dyno.
Don't get excited , its artificial! Tuners will know what I mean.
The moment you add any part that adds power in any way, it will detune the car! OR it simply won't tune it up!
Another way at least on cars with an Automatic trans, is that the trans engages hard when simply pulling it out of park or when driving normally. By hard I mean, too firmly or flat out slams into gear!
There are allot of 2016-17 GM Truck owners having trouble with this.
Dealers are telling them there is nothing wrong.
Now assuming you guys aren't all out there data logging , The Dyno is always the tell tail giveaway.
Hope at least some of what I have said was helpful.
VR tech
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1ccrider (11-25-2017)
11-16-2017, 05:45 PM
#62
Instructor
No, according to GM these meters are within tolerance.
Now, no one at the dealership is checking them by doing a resistance test. They just plug the car into the computer, run a scan and say the magic words that many vehicle owners have heard before.
"WE don't see anything wrong"
Then they send you down the road.
What that means is "Within Tolerance for an unaltered vehicle"
These meters are not weak or lazy, they are outrageously strong.
The real issue is that they have a reverse output to the ECM (my personal simplified term for it)
Example: Lets say the temp drops from 90 down to 60 deg. The ECM should add maybe 3-4% fuel trim. If its the 1% meter ,as I call it, the ECM will take away 3-4% fuel trim! Apposite reaction!
Now All OEM's build in a +or- % into every vehicle for DA variation and fuel variation. It varies from vehicle to vehicle. The C7 is 10%. So unless it triggers a light for the dealerships computer to read , the owner will never know and the dealer will say , we don't see anything wrong. "Its in Tolerance"
I call it the 1% meter because "less than 1%" of GM vehicles have it. Yes, that's ALL GM vehicles not just C7's ,it covers Camaros , Trucks , SUV's etc..
When I come across one , the only thing to do is to replace it.
One easy way to spot it is that the cars that have it will dyno about 20 Rear wheel HP higher than other "stock" cars on the same dyno.
Don't get excited , its artificial! Tuners will know what I mean.
The moment you add any part that adds power in any way, it will detune the car! OR it simply won't tune it up!
Another way at least on cars with an Automatic trans, is that the trans engages hard when simply pulling it out of park or when driving normally. By hard I mean, too firmly or flat out slams into gear!
There are allot of 2016-17 GM Truck owners having trouble with this.
Dealers are telling them there is nothing wrong.
Now assuming you guys aren't all out there data logging , The Dyno is always the tell tail giveaway.
Hope at least some of what I have said was helpful.
VR tech
Now, no one at the dealership is checking them by doing a resistance test. They just plug the car into the computer, run a scan and say the magic words that many vehicle owners have heard before.
"WE don't see anything wrong"
Then they send you down the road.
What that means is "Within Tolerance for an unaltered vehicle"
These meters are not weak or lazy, they are outrageously strong.
The real issue is that they have a reverse output to the ECM (my personal simplified term for it)
Example: Lets say the temp drops from 90 down to 60 deg. The ECM should add maybe 3-4% fuel trim. If its the 1% meter ,as I call it, the ECM will take away 3-4% fuel trim! Apposite reaction!
Now All OEM's build in a +or- % into every vehicle for DA variation and fuel variation. It varies from vehicle to vehicle. The C7 is 10%. So unless it triggers a light for the dealerships computer to read , the owner will never know and the dealer will say , we don't see anything wrong. "Its in Tolerance"
I call it the 1% meter because "less than 1%" of GM vehicles have it. Yes, that's ALL GM vehicles not just C7's ,it covers Camaros , Trucks , SUV's etc..
When I come across one , the only thing to do is to replace it.
One easy way to spot it is that the cars that have it will dyno about 20 Rear wheel HP higher than other "stock" cars on the same dyno.
Don't get excited , its artificial! Tuners will know what I mean.
The moment you add any part that adds power in any way, it will detune the car! OR it simply won't tune it up!
Another way at least on cars with an Automatic trans, is that the trans engages hard when simply pulling it out of park or when driving normally. By hard I mean, too firmly or flat out slams into gear!
There are allot of 2016-17 GM Truck owners having trouble with this.
Dealers are telling them there is nothing wrong.
Now assuming you guys aren't all out there data logging , The Dyno is always the tell tail giveaway.
Hope at least some of what I have said was helpful.
VR tech
11-16-2017, 07:40 PM
#64
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St. Jude Donor '08-'12, '14-'15
Sorry Guys, I don’t know how I missed this thread!
Here is what happened and why you saw so little power as opposed to others.
This was your first clue that something was wrong.
“The computer actually called on more fuel but made the AF mixture richer...so if its flowing more air the computer is confused.”
You have the 1% air meter as I call it. That is the exact same meter my personal car came with in 2014. The meter is a goof, it reads high MAF HZ numbers,over scaling the MAF detuning the car. It does not matter what part you put on the car to get to its max HZ range. Once it hits this number, it detunes the car. It also tunes the car backwards. Example: When it sees more airflow, it should be adding fuel, it doesn’t, it takes it way! The exact opposite of what it should do.
We first ran into these meters in 2010 with the new Gen5 Camaro and later found them on other C6 Vettes as well. We had tuners across the country building their 200th exact same heads cam package, yet on one particular customers car, they could never get it tuned out properly. Drivability was always off, throttle tip in was off etc. tuners who read this post will know.
There is no identifying mark or number to single these out as there used to be in the past. Unfortunately, the only thing to do is to replace the meter. GM does not consider them defective because they are within “tolerance” as they say.
You should have called us immediately after your dyno pulls. In your case, You did have the car tuned but the meter still must be replaced to realize full power. It will hinder every modification you make to that car. Example2: If you put a cam in that car, your tuner will go through hell trying to get drivability in it.
VR Tech
Here is what happened and why you saw so little power as opposed to others.
This was your first clue that something was wrong.
“The computer actually called on more fuel but made the AF mixture richer...so if its flowing more air the computer is confused.”
You have the 1% air meter as I call it. That is the exact same meter my personal car came with in 2014. The meter is a goof, it reads high MAF HZ numbers,over scaling the MAF detuning the car. It does not matter what part you put on the car to get to its max HZ range. Once it hits this number, it detunes the car. It also tunes the car backwards. Example: When it sees more airflow, it should be adding fuel, it doesn’t, it takes it way! The exact opposite of what it should do.
We first ran into these meters in 2010 with the new Gen5 Camaro and later found them on other C6 Vettes as well. We had tuners across the country building their 200th exact same heads cam package, yet on one particular customers car, they could never get it tuned out properly. Drivability was always off, throttle tip in was off etc. tuners who read this post will know.
There is no identifying mark or number to single these out as there used to be in the past. Unfortunately, the only thing to do is to replace the meter. GM does not consider them defective because they are within “tolerance” as they say.
You should have called us immediately after your dyno pulls. In your case, You did have the car tuned but the meter still must be replaced to realize full power. It will hinder every modification you make to that car. Example2: If you put a cam in that car, your tuner will go through hell trying to get drivability in it.
VR Tech
I have also mentioned that this unit does have a nice fit and finish and I believe that it should have gained more than what we saw even without a tune and did concede that for some reason it may be giving me some weird results due to confusion with the ECU. My tuner (and again I am purposely not going to mention on this forum) did say he reached to someone at Vararam when this occurred, however I cannot verify at this time. That said, I was present when he called another tuner (who is a forum sponsor and again I am purposely not going to mention) and both of them were scratching their heads abit.All of that said, thank-you for the response and suggestion. My question is since now the car has been properly tuned after the intake, headers, cats, X-pipe and it runs great do you think I may be leaving power on the table by not replacing the meter? In other words is it hurting having it on? Also, and this may be a stupid question as I just recently got this car, but I am assuming my warrantee will no longer cover as the car is not stock..and if not what is the ~cost of this?
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Harbgrogan (10-08-2018)
11-16-2017, 10:37 PM
#65
Supporting Vendor
Thank-you for the reply and follow up PM. I have been consistent with my comments regarding the quality of your product (I have used you a few times in the past) and organization. I have also mentioned that this unit does have a nice fit and finish and I believe that it should have gained more than what we saw even without a tune and did concede that for some reason it may be giving me some weird results due to confusion with the ECU. My tuner (and again I am purposely not going to mention on this forum) did say he reached to someone at Vararam when this occurred, however I cannot verify at this time. That said, I was present when he called another tuner (who is a forum sponsor and again I am purposely not going to mention) and both of them were scratching their heads abit.
All of that said, thank-you for the response and suggestion. My question is since now the car has been properly tuned after the intake, headers, cats, X-pipe and it runs great do you think I may be leaving power on the table by not replacing the meter? In other words is it hurting having it on? Also, and this may be a stupid question as I just recently got this car, but I am assuming my warrantee will no longer cover as the car is not stock..and if not what is the ~cost of this?
I have also mentioned that this unit does have a nice fit and finish and I believe that it should have gained more than what we saw even without a tune and did concede that for some reason it may be giving me some weird results due to confusion with the ECU. My tuner (and again I am purposely not going to mention on this forum) did say he reached to someone at Vararam when this occurred, however I cannot verify at this time. That said, I was present when he called another tuner (who is a forum sponsor and again I am purposely not going to mention) and both of them were scratching their heads abit.All of that said, thank-you for the response and suggestion. My question is since now the car has been properly tuned after the intake, headers, cats, X-pipe and it runs great do you think I may be leaving power on the table by not replacing the meter? In other words is it hurting having it on? Also, and this may be a stupid question as I just recently got this car, but I am assuming my warrantee will no longer cover as the car is not stock..and if not what is the ~cost of this?
Problem is they just don't check them and why should they? They should all be the same, but they just are not.
As a side note: I went through hell getting the manufacturer to provide us with all of the tolerances for the meters back in 2010. You would have thought I was trying to rob Fort Knox! I say that because GM had no idea . I had to contact Engineers at Hitachi ,the original Patent holder and private label Teir one manufacturer of the meters for many OEMs. That means the data other than max HZ range is hard to get!
ALWAYS CALL US if something doesn't seam correct - There are no dumb questions. If someone had contacted us and said "hey I only got 2HP" We would have sent out a fix to them asap. There is a fix / patch without MAF replacement. It only fixes the detuning , not any of the other issues that can come up with those Goof 1% MAF sensors.
Now Since you were getting headers ,X-pipe and all of the other fun parts you would have had to tune it anyway and the fix/patch would have been useless except for your before and after test. For the guy who doesn't want to tune and runs into this , we have a fix.
Now its so few and far between its actually below my 1% number, in other words its rare.
Now regarding additional power , I can't say 100% because I don't have your data log. I can say that If the car was tuned on a dyno then absolutely there is more power to be had. The Vararam TCR-7 makes about 8Hp more when you are on the move vs sitting on the dyno. By move I mean 30-40mph We limit the unit to this additional gain on the road to keep the MAF in "Tolerance". That also provides just enough added flow to intercool the system.
Because we are adding flow beyond what you see on the dyno , your tuner can do things you could never do with a standard system . example : He can run more timing advance, he could alter the cam timing to make it more aggressive etc...
For the tune: The car needs to be driven on the road. Just do a 3rd gear pull / Log from 2,000RPM-6,000RPM.
(in a nice safe place of course!)
I have every tuning software there is, so if you want to have your tuner email it to me and I can tell you within about 2 min or less where it is and if any alterations should be made.
Replacing the meter:In general ,I prefer to replace the meters. Cost is about $76-$87 with our 25% discount . I have to double check it to be 100% but I think that's correct. If this were a cam or heads/ cam or blower car , no question, REPLACE IT! Bolt on car that's been tuned, its prob fine.
Usually GM dealers don't like custom tunes but they are not all sticklers. Mine could care less!
VR Tech
11-16-2017, 11:39 PM
#66
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We always appreciate the positive comments and I assure you that many other tuners that are regarded as some of the best in the Biz have been left scratching their heads when they get these goof meters.
Problem is they just don't check them and why should they? They should all be the same, but they just are not.
As a side note: I went through hell getting the manufacturer to provide us with all of the tolerances for the meters back in 2010. You would have thought I was trying to rob Fort Knox! I say that because GM had no idea . I had to contact Engineers at Hitachi ,the original Patent holder and private label Teir one manufacturer of the meters for many OEMs. That means the data other than max HZ range is hard to get!
ALWAYS CALL US if something doesn't seam correct - There are no dumb questions. If someone had contacted us and said "hey I only got 2HP" We would have sent out a fix to them asap. There is a fix / patch without MAF replacement. It only fixes the detuning , not any of the other issues that can come up with those Goof 1% MAF sensors.
Now Since you were getting headers ,X-pipe and all of the other fun parts you would have had to tune it anyway and the fix/patch would have been useless except for your before and after test. For the guy who doesn't want to tune and runs into this , we have a fix.
Now its so few and far between its actually below my 1% number, in other words its rare.
Now regarding additional power , I can't say 100% because I don't have your data log. I can say that If the car was tuned on a dyno then absolutely there is more power to be had. The Vararam TCR-7 makes about 8Hp more when you are on the move vs sitting on the dyno. By move I mean 30-40mph We limit the unit to this additional gain on the road to keep the MAF in "Tolerance". That also provides just enough added flow to intercool the system.
Because we are adding flow beyond what you see on the dyno , your tuner can do things you could never do with a standard system . example : He can run more timing advance, he could alter the cam timing to make it more aggressive etc...
For the tune: The car needs to be driven on the road. Just do a 3rd gear pull / Log from 2,000RPM-6,000RPM.
(in a nice safe place of course!)
I have every tuning software there is, so if you want to have your tuner email it to me and I can tell you within about 2 min or less where it is and if any alterations should be made.
Replacing the meter:In general ,I prefer to replace the meters. Cost is about $76-$87 with our 25% discount . I have to double check it to be 100% but I think that's correct. If this were a cam or heads/ cam or blower car , no question, REPLACE IT! Bolt on car that's been tuned, its prob fine.
Usually GM dealers don't like custom tunes but they are not all sticklers. Mine could care less!
VR Tech
Problem is they just don't check them and why should they? They should all be the same, but they just are not.
As a side note: I went through hell getting the manufacturer to provide us with all of the tolerances for the meters back in 2010. You would have thought I was trying to rob Fort Knox! I say that because GM had no idea . I had to contact Engineers at Hitachi ,the original Patent holder and private label Teir one manufacturer of the meters for many OEMs. That means the data other than max HZ range is hard to get!
ALWAYS CALL US if something doesn't seam correct - There are no dumb questions. If someone had contacted us and said "hey I only got 2HP" We would have sent out a fix to them asap. There is a fix / patch without MAF replacement. It only fixes the detuning , not any of the other issues that can come up with those Goof 1% MAF sensors.
Now Since you were getting headers ,X-pipe and all of the other fun parts you would have had to tune it anyway and the fix/patch would have been useless except for your before and after test. For the guy who doesn't want to tune and runs into this , we have a fix.
Now its so few and far between its actually below my 1% number, in other words its rare.
Now regarding additional power , I can't say 100% because I don't have your data log. I can say that If the car was tuned on a dyno then absolutely there is more power to be had. The Vararam TCR-7 makes about 8Hp more when you are on the move vs sitting on the dyno. By move I mean 30-40mph We limit the unit to this additional gain on the road to keep the MAF in "Tolerance". That also provides just enough added flow to intercool the system.
Because we are adding flow beyond what you see on the dyno , your tuner can do things you could never do with a standard system . example : He can run more timing advance, he could alter the cam timing to make it more aggressive etc...
For the tune: The car needs to be driven on the road. Just do a 3rd gear pull / Log from 2,000RPM-6,000RPM.
(in a nice safe place of course!)
I have every tuning software there is, so if you want to have your tuner email it to me and I can tell you within about 2 min or less where it is and if any alterations should be made.
Replacing the meter:In general ,I prefer to replace the meters. Cost is about $76-$87 with our 25% discount . I have to double check it to be 100% but I think that's correct. If this were a cam or heads/ cam or blower car , no question, REPLACE IT! Bolt on car that's been tuned, its prob fine.
Usually GM dealers don't like custom tunes but they are not all sticklers. Mine could care less!
VR Tech
As I mentioned the car feels great and I have owned numerous highly modified cars so its not a placebo effect. As I stated once everything was installed and tuned to be fair I cannot attribute what mods did what exactly. If we had the time I may have requested to wait a few days and figure out the intake prior to doing an tuning...however that was not an option in this particular case.
To summarize everything again. This thread started based upon what my results were. It was not meant to sway anyone one way or another, just the facts of what happened. The unit looks great and you can tell it was well engineered. When I installed it on my stock car I was expecting abit more of a measurable dyno run...however and again to be fair (and I did disclose this) the computer did some weird things. Things in which it would have likely done regardless of the intake I put on. As per your response this may have been the case, however I did not make any additional modifications/changes and went onto the next mods and tune. Overall the car sounds and feels great. I am happy with the results of the mods I made. Do I think this new unit is good and would I recommend Vararam? Even though we did not get the initial dyno numbers, I do believe enough in the design and Vararam does have a great reputation for building quality production so yes, I have recommended to a friend who just purchased. I will be interested to here his feedback.
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VaraRam Industries (11-17-2017)
11-17-2017, 10:30 AM
#67
Supporting Vendor
Thank-you again for the detailed follow up. My tuner did say that he reached out...however I cannot confirm what if any conversation took place. That said I just spoke to him again and you will definitely be contacted in the next few days.
As I mentioned the car feels great and I have owned numerous highly modified cars so its not a placebo effect. As I stated once everything was installed and tuned to be fair I cannot attribute what mods did what exactly. If we had the time I may have requested to wait a few days and figure out the intake prior to doing an tuning...however that was not an option in this particular case.
To summarize everything again. This thread started based upon what my results were. It was not meant to sway anyone one way or another, just the facts of what happened. The unit looks great and you can tell it was well engineered. When I installed it on my stock car I was expecting abit more of a measurable dyno run...however and again to be fair (and I did disclose this) the computer did some weird things. Things in which it would have likely done regardless of the intake I put on. As per your response this may have been the case, however I did not make any additional modifications/changes and went onto the next mods and tune. Overall the car sounds and feels great. I am happy with the results of the mods I made. Do I think this new unit is good and would I recommend Vararam? Even though we did not get the initial dyno numbers, I do believe enough in the design and Vararam does have a great reputation for building quality production so yes, I have recommended to a friend who just purchased. I will be interested to here his feedback.
As I mentioned the car feels great and I have owned numerous highly modified cars so its not a placebo effect. As I stated once everything was installed and tuned to be fair I cannot attribute what mods did what exactly. If we had the time I may have requested to wait a few days and figure out the intake prior to doing an tuning...however that was not an option in this particular case.
To summarize everything again. This thread started based upon what my results were. It was not meant to sway anyone one way or another, just the facts of what happened. The unit looks great and you can tell it was well engineered. When I installed it on my stock car I was expecting abit more of a measurable dyno run...however and again to be fair (and I did disclose this) the computer did some weird things. Things in which it would have likely done regardless of the intake I put on. As per your response this may have been the case, however I did not make any additional modifications/changes and went onto the next mods and tune. Overall the car sounds and feels great. I am happy with the results of the mods I made. Do I think this new unit is good and would I recommend Vararam? Even though we did not get the initial dyno numbers, I do believe enough in the design and Vararam does have a great reputation for building quality production so yes, I have recommended to a friend who just purchased. I will be interested to here his feedback.
Those meters are out there, but like I said it is few and far between.
Tell your friend to let us know how his car runs !
VR Tech
11-20-2017, 08:19 PM
#68
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As my dynoman told me years ago, always go to an independent and not trust the figures of parts seller generated dynos... they are too easy to manipulate (not that any reputable vendor would do so, of course).
11-21-2017, 10:04 AM
#69
Supporting Vendor
That's why we always choose the lowest VR hp number vs the highest stock OEM hp number.
However, VR systems are designed on the road to be used in the real world where you drive and use your car. Intercooling, forced induction etc.. won't show up on a dyno, but they will in real world driving.
The ECM gives completely different readings on the dyno VS road loads. Tuners know this. We design our systems for the road ,where the loads are much higher.
Customers who want Real world performance know the difference.
In this particular case the customer had the goof 1% GM meter that over tunes ( causing a detune of the ECM) .
That's all listed in the thread.
That is also why we guarantee the performance of our products or we take them back and pay shipping both ways!
VR tech
11-23-2017, 08:43 AM
#70
Burning Brakes
Also keep in mind that myself and others have experienced the PRE-DTC situation when unplugging the MAF while doing the install. The PRE-DTC is easy to detect without a code reader ... your cooling fan will run FULL SPEED when you start the car the first time or two. An ODB reader will see the pre-DTC's ...
Perhaps the PRE-DTC is pulling power after the initial install and first dyno runs ...
Perhaps the PRE-DTC is pulling power after the initial install and first dyno runs ...
11-23-2017, 06:30 PM
#71
Supporting Vendor
Also keep in mind that myself and others have experienced the PRE-DTC situation when unplugging the MAF while doing the install. The PRE-DTC is easy to detect without a code reader ... your cooling fan will run FULL SPEED when you start the car the first time or two. An ODB reader will see the pre-DTC's ...
Perhaps the PRE-DTC is pulling power after the initial install and first dyno runs ...
Perhaps the PRE-DTC is pulling power after the initial install and first dyno runs ...
VR tech
11-29-2017, 06:57 AM
#72
This intake is on my short list. I may have missed something, but how do you determine if you have one of the "1%" MAF sensors, without putting the car on a dyno?
11-29-2017, 10:22 AM
#73
Supporting Vendor
( possible ways to spot them)
If the car is an auto, it may engage the trans hard between Park, Reverse etc..it will prob shift firm/hard when just driving normally as well. Of course, you would have to know what "normal shifting" should feel like to know that something was different.
You may also spot a higher than normal idle,... by 30-50RPM at operating temp. Again, you would need to know what normal is for your weather conditions / Density Altitude.
There just isn't a simple/easy way, other than to use a Scanner or Voltmeter to test them.
I do it every time we start a new project on a vehicle. I just did it to a 2017 5.3 Truck. Meter was fine, truck made crazy gains of 29HP and 44ft lbs of Torque ! It even gained 1MPG!
VR tech
11-29-2017, 01:30 PM
#75
Supporting Vendor
You should be fine. It's less than 1% of GM vehicles that have them.
Remember , Its not a CAI intake thing , it's about the MAF hitting its limit.
How you get there could be any number of ways , Example: a Cat-back exhaust, headers ,X pipe, Ported throttle body, aftermarket intake, intake manifold etc..
The 1% meters are already on their limit or darn close to it.
VR tech
Remember , Its not a CAI intake thing , it's about the MAF hitting its limit.
How you get there could be any number of ways , Example: a Cat-back exhaust, headers ,X pipe, Ported throttle body, aftermarket intake, intake manifold etc..
The 1% meters are already on their limit or darn close to it.
VR tech
11-30-2017, 10:51 PM
#76
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Numbers, numbers, numbers... look at any aftermarket parts catalog and EVERYTHING adds power, often outrageous amounts, which is patently obvious to anyone with an iota of rationality. But, who is going to try and market something that doesn't do so, especially if overpriced to begin with???
As my long-time dyno man always says any dyno can be tweaked to give any result ya want. Hence, why would anyone accept numbers generated by the ones who are marketing something... anything? We all know what is needed, controlled testing under identical conditions by an independent entity.
That's just never going to happen in any organized way, hence, Caveat Emptor!
As my long-time dyno man always says any dyno can be tweaked to give any result ya want. Hence, why would anyone accept numbers generated by the ones who are marketing something... anything? We all know what is needed, controlled testing under identical conditions by an independent entity.
That's just never going to happen in any organized way, hence, Caveat Emptor!
Last edited by Avanti; 11-30-2017 at 10:52 PM.
11-30-2017, 11:47 PM
#77
Le Mans Master
In the 5th gen Camaro LS3 world, this was known as a "weak MAF" issue. I went thru it myself on my 13 1LE. Aggravated and baffled, one of my buddies convinced me to just try a new MAF due to the weak MAF rumors. You can choose to believe what you want, makes no difference to me, but VR Tech's explanationis 100% correct. I'm not a Vararam rep, don't have their intake or anyone else's on my vette, but swapping out the weak MAF on my LS3 solved my problems. Going thru the frustration myself, I'm willing to bet OP's issue will be fixed too.
12-01-2017, 10:54 AM
#78
Supporting Vendor
Numbers, numbers, numbers... look at any aftermarket parts catalog and EVERYTHING adds power, often outrageous amounts, which is patently obvious to anyone with an iota of rationality. But, who is going to try and market something that doesn't do so, especially if overpriced to begin with???
As my long-time dyno man always says any dyno can be tweaked to give any result ya want. Hence, why would anyone accept numbers generated by the ones who are marketing something... anything? We all know what is needed, controlled testing under identical conditions by an independent entity.
That's just never going to happen in any organized way, hence, Caveat Emptor!
As my long-time dyno man always says any dyno can be tweaked to give any result ya want. Hence, why would anyone accept numbers generated by the ones who are marketing something... anything? We all know what is needed, controlled testing under identical conditions by an independent entity.
That's just never going to happen in any organized way, hence, Caveat Emptor!
Anyone who does custom tuning or data logs will spot it the moment the car is started. In this case the tuner did spot it. That's about as scientific as it gets!
You have to understand that these cars have a MAF limit and when they hit it , however they hit it, from that point on it will detune the car.
AS an example: When the LT-1 guys bolt on blowers, they have to rescale the MAFs back to hold a specific range. They have to do that for a reason, not because they want to. If they didn't ,they could bolt on a Blower and gain power to a point, then watch as the car closes the throttle down on them as the RPM rises. In some cases, if its way off , it will even shut the engine off on the Dyno !
Why does this happen? because there is a MAF limit in the ECM.
Now lets say the manufacturer claims a 100Hp gain but you only see a 60hp gain because of this issue.
If I took your Rationale, the Blower/ Supercharger must not work/ deliver the power gain they say. When in fact, there is a different issue and its not about the blower at all.
That is why we guarantee our products to perform as we say or we take them back.
So,.... I am a bit confused at what you are saying.
VR tech
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Mike Campbell (10-11-2018)
12-08-2017, 04:36 PM
#79
Burning Brakes
You should be fine. It's less than 1% of GM vehicles that have them.
Remember , Its not a CAI intake thing , it's about the MAF hitting its limit.
How you get there could be any number of ways , Example: a Cat-back exhaust, headers ,X pipe, Ported throttle body, aftermarket intake, intake manifold etc..
The 1% meters are already on their limit or darn close to it.
VR tech
Remember , Its not a CAI intake thing , it's about the MAF hitting its limit.
How you get there could be any number of ways , Example: a Cat-back exhaust, headers ,X pipe, Ported throttle body, aftermarket intake, intake manifold etc..
The 1% meters are already on their limit or darn close to it.
VR tech
12-08-2017, 06:00 PM
#80
Supporting Vendor