General Questions / Track Day Prep / 2014 Z51
04-11-2018, 04:46 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
General Questions / Track Day Prep / 2014 Z51
Ill go ahead and start by saying that this could likely be suited to several threads, but its all loosely tied in. I signed up for a track day at NCM for June and its prompted research which leads to questions.
I bought this car used with clean car fax at 7k miles on it. Had new tires, noticed that the carpet under the rear rubber mat was ripped by the battery. Also noticed that there was a spade clip not removed from one of the battery terminals. Im guessing its probably been tracked at some time but whatever that’s what you should buy a corvette for. (I was in by the battery because occasionally the gas gauge will stop reading and a battery reset is only way to fix it… and maybe some techron).
Ive read that with a proper street setup, that most people get pretty even front tire wear, though my front tires definitely have a slant to them and are due to be replaced at 22k miles. Im wondering if the previous owner had the alignment set for the track, what kind of mileage I can expect from driving on the street with a more aggressive alignment. (I like going out on the curvy back roads on the weekends and would see benefit there, but not so much commuting to work).
Also wondering how many people actually successfully got the track alignment and how much difference it made. (I have a set of take-offs that I will be having installed soon).
Next is the Dot 4 flush. Im fine with flushing it, but Im wondering if I can leave the Dot4 afterward. My 2008 civic has Dot4 in it………..
Next would be the differential oil. Im at 22k miles of highway and spirited driving on the weekend. I dunno if the original owner ever changed the fluid or really if it was ever officially tracked, but Im guessing I should change the stuff. I occasionally get “Service Rear Axle” when its cold out, and I asked GM about it and they basically said to ignore it if the car drives okay? Uhhh I don’t like that answer and being naïve Ive basically done that. Still drives fine but curious if anyone else has seen that message.
Also, I had to change brake pads and rotors because they were warped or pulsing or whatever (I know the debate about rotor warping…) and GM said there was a TSB, but I was 1 month out of warranty and asked for 1700 to replace. Got the Z26 PowerStop kit, and I am picking up some Brembo take off pads for the track day as these Z26 pads are not gonna hold, and don’t do near as good of job.
If anyone else has recommendations (I plan on swapping the oil too) for track prep or things I should go after before NCM, that would be appreciated.
I bought this car used with clean car fax at 7k miles on it. Had new tires, noticed that the carpet under the rear rubber mat was ripped by the battery. Also noticed that there was a spade clip not removed from one of the battery terminals. Im guessing its probably been tracked at some time but whatever that’s what you should buy a corvette for. (I was in by the battery because occasionally the gas gauge will stop reading and a battery reset is only way to fix it… and maybe some techron).
Ive read that with a proper street setup, that most people get pretty even front tire wear, though my front tires definitely have a slant to them and are due to be replaced at 22k miles. Im wondering if the previous owner had the alignment set for the track, what kind of mileage I can expect from driving on the street with a more aggressive alignment. (I like going out on the curvy back roads on the weekends and would see benefit there, but not so much commuting to work).
Also wondering how many people actually successfully got the track alignment and how much difference it made. (I have a set of take-offs that I will be having installed soon).
Next is the Dot 4 flush. Im fine with flushing it, but Im wondering if I can leave the Dot4 afterward. My 2008 civic has Dot4 in it………..
Next would be the differential oil. Im at 22k miles of highway and spirited driving on the weekend. I dunno if the original owner ever changed the fluid or really if it was ever officially tracked, but Im guessing I should change the stuff. I occasionally get “Service Rear Axle” when its cold out, and I asked GM about it and they basically said to ignore it if the car drives okay? Uhhh I don’t like that answer and being naïve Ive basically done that. Still drives fine but curious if anyone else has seen that message.
Also, I had to change brake pads and rotors because they were warped or pulsing or whatever (I know the debate about rotor warping…) and GM said there was a TSB, but I was 1 month out of warranty and asked for 1700 to replace. Got the Z26 PowerStop kit, and I am picking up some Brembo take off pads for the track day as these Z26 pads are not gonna hold, and don’t do near as good of job.
If anyone else has recommendations (I plan on swapping the oil too) for track prep or things I should go after before NCM, that would be appreciated.
04-11-2018, 05:29 PM
#2
Drifting
So, here's some suggestions:
Regarding a "track alignment", Since this is apparently a first track day for you, finding out what your alignment is and if needed have id adjusted for street. You won't be pushing the car hard enough that an aggressive alignment is needed, and you will do fine with a street alignment. so, take it to a place you know can set your car correctly.
Leave the DOT4 in it. If you do a second or third track day. flush it before you run. Your nose will tell you when the brake fluid gets rancid. Change it if it smells funky for sure.
Differential oil change would probably be a good idea.
The service rear axle is something you need to sort out. Check for misfire codes. If you are seeing a P0300 (random misfire) or a misfire on a specific cylinder, this may be causing that message. Have the dealer pull all the history codes. There are some posts about this.
Rotors don't "warp" they are cast iron. The rotor hats are steel, and they can bend, but only if they take a direct hit. You should be just fine with the Power Stop Trackday pads, bedded in properly. Any track pad you get, though should scrub hot spots off rotors in short order when cold. Be sure to swap back to your street pads, or you will hate the dust and rotor wear with normal stop/go street driving.
What are Brembo take-off pads?
The NCM track is a most interesting track. You will be challenged to "get it" for a couple days, so don't be discouraged. If you can get to the BASH the end of April, the MSP is doing touring laps on Thursday and that would be a good chance to see the track.
Regarding a "track alignment", Since this is apparently a first track day for you, finding out what your alignment is and if needed have id adjusted for street. You won't be pushing the car hard enough that an aggressive alignment is needed, and you will do fine with a street alignment. so, take it to a place you know can set your car correctly.
Leave the DOT4 in it. If you do a second or third track day. flush it before you run. Your nose will tell you when the brake fluid gets rancid. Change it if it smells funky for sure.
Differential oil change would probably be a good idea.
The service rear axle is something you need to sort out. Check for misfire codes. If you are seeing a P0300 (random misfire) or a misfire on a specific cylinder, this may be causing that message. Have the dealer pull all the history codes. There are some posts about this.
Rotors don't "warp" they are cast iron. The rotor hats are steel, and they can bend, but only if they take a direct hit. You should be just fine with the Power Stop Trackday pads, bedded in properly. Any track pad you get, though should scrub hot spots off rotors in short order when cold. Be sure to swap back to your street pads, or you will hate the dust and rotor wear with normal stop/go street driving.
What are Brembo take-off pads?
The NCM track is a most interesting track. You will be challenged to "get it" for a couple days, so don't be discouraged. If you can get to the BASH the end of April, the MSP is doing touring laps on Thursday and that would be a good chance to see the track.
04-11-2018, 07:41 PM
#3
Intermediate
Thread Starter
So, here's some suggestions:
Regarding a "track alignment", Since this is apparently a first track day for you, finding out what your alignment is and if needed have id adjusted for street. You won't be pushing the car hard enough that an aggressive alignment is needed, and you will do fine with a street alignment. so, take it to a place you know can set your car correctly.
Leave the DOT4 in it. If you do a second or third track day. flush it before you run. Your nose will tell you when the brake fluid gets rancid. Change it if it smells funky for sure.
Differential oil change would probably be a good idea.
The service rear axle is something you need to sort out. Check for misfire codes. If you are seeing a P0300 (random misfire) or a misfire on a specific cylinder, this may be causing that message. Have the dealer pull all the history codes. There are some posts about this.
Rotors don't "warp" they are cast iron. The rotor hats are steel, and they can bend, but only if they take a direct hit. You should be just fine with the Power Stop Trackday pads, bedded in properly. Any track pad you get, though should scrub hot spots off rotors in short order when cold. Be sure to swap back to your street pads, or you will hate the dust and rotor wear with normal stop/go street driving.
What are Brembo take-off pads?
The NCM track is a most interesting track. You will be challenged to "get it" for a couple days, so don't be discouraged. If you can get to the BASH the end of April, the MSP is doing touring laps on Thursday and that would be a good chance to see the track.
Regarding a "track alignment", Since this is apparently a first track day for you, finding out what your alignment is and if needed have id adjusted for street. You won't be pushing the car hard enough that an aggressive alignment is needed, and you will do fine with a street alignment. so, take it to a place you know can set your car correctly.
Leave the DOT4 in it. If you do a second or third track day. flush it before you run. Your nose will tell you when the brake fluid gets rancid. Change it if it smells funky for sure.
Differential oil change would probably be a good idea.
The service rear axle is something you need to sort out. Check for misfire codes. If you are seeing a P0300 (random misfire) or a misfire on a specific cylinder, this may be causing that message. Have the dealer pull all the history codes. There are some posts about this.
Rotors don't "warp" they are cast iron. The rotor hats are steel, and they can bend, but only if they take a direct hit. You should be just fine with the Power Stop Trackday pads, bedded in properly. Any track pad you get, though should scrub hot spots off rotors in short order when cold. Be sure to swap back to your street pads, or you will hate the dust and rotor wear with normal stop/go street driving.
What are Brembo take-off pads?
The NCM track is a most interesting track. You will be challenged to "get it" for a couple days, so don't be discouraged. If you can get to the BASH the end of April, the MSP is doing touring laps on Thursday and that would be a good chance to see the track.
There was a TSB for the original unrevised two piece rotors for pulsing. I know they were quite grooved when i got them (Wavy across the surface, not just the lip). I tried several times to re-bedd and even tried scrubbing the rotors a bit.
I bought the Z26 pads and rotors and they dont really dust, but they dont bite for shizz either.
By Take-Offs I meant that someone got a new Z51 and changed out the pads for less dusty ones, and I plan on using those for the track day.
https://bingetokyo.jp/events/bingeto...rack-6-23-2018
Also I appreciate the response!
04-11-2018, 07:46 PM
#4
Tech Contributor
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Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
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Ill go ahead and start by saying that this could likely be suited to several threads, but its all loosely tied in. I signed up for a track day at NCM for June and its prompted research which leads to questions.
I bought this car used with clean car fax at 7k miles on it. Had new tires, noticed that the carpet under the rear rubber mat was ripped by the battery. Also noticed that there was a spade clip not removed from one of the battery terminals. Im guessing its probably been tracked at some time but whatever that’s what you should buy a corvette for. (I was in by the battery because occasionally the gas gauge will stop reading and a battery reset is only way to fix it… and maybe some techron).
I don't know about the Stingray models but my Z06 has a ground sense wire that is attached to the battery cable ground connection. If that wire is broken (and its easy to break) you can get messages like you are seeing. Mine was broken when I took delivery of my car and the dealer mechanic had to splice in some extra wire to keep it from breaking again.
Ive read that with a proper street setup, that most people get pretty even front tire wear, though my front tires definitely have a slant to them and are due to be replaced at 22k miles. Im wondering if the previous owner had the alignment set for the track, what kind of mileage I can expect from driving on the street with a more aggressive alignment. (I like going out on the curvy back roads on the weekends and would see benefit there, but not so much commuting to work).
A visible slant to the tires doesn't indicate a track alignment. With the mileage you got on those tires I would say the alignment was probably set for the street. Have it checked by a qualified shop that has the proper tools to measure rear caster and can set rear caster if required. That can be an issue since a lot of dealers are misinformed about C7 alignment requirements and don't purchase the proper tools although they can borrow them from GM. At most other shops you will truly get blank stares since there are only a few other models that have ever been sold that have rear caster adjustments including the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky. GM has a February 2016 TSB that instructs dealers on how to set the track alignment for both the Stingray and the Z06.
Also wondering how many people actually successfully got the track alignment and how much difference it made. (I have a set of take-offs that I will be having installed soon).
It helps a fair amount and cuts down on tire wear while on track but can hasten tire wear on the street. Double edged sword. As a novice you may not drive fast enough in corners to notice a difference.
Next is the Dot 4 flush. Im fine with flushing it, but Im wondering if I can leave the Dot4 afterward. My 2008 civic has Dot4 in it………..
If you have put 15K miles on the car and haven't touched the brake fluid since you owned it then the fluid needs to be changed before you head to the track. However, although GM says to use DOT 4 there are vast differences in DOT 4 fluids and you usually don't get the good ones at your local auto parts store. You want something with a fairly high dry boiling point that will be installed no more than 2 weeks before the event. Now here is some heresy. Standard DOT3 Ford Brake Fluid has a dry boiling point that exceeds a lot of DOT4 fluids dry boiling point. It is 500 degrees F. It has the standard DOT3 wet boiling point so within a few months it will be the same as the DOT3 you have in the car now. If you don't want to go with the Ford Fluid look for Ferodo Racing Brake Fluid, Wilwood 600 EXP, Wilwood 570, ATE, Motul, or Castrol SRF (hold onto your chair when you read its price). It doesn't hurt to leave the new fluid in the car once you leave the track.
Next would be the differential oil. Im at 22k miles of highway and spirited driving on the weekend. I dunno if the original owner ever changed the fluid or really if it was ever officially tracked, but Im guessing I should change the stuff. I occasionally get “Service Rear Axle” when its cold out, and I asked GM about it and they basically said to ignore it if the car drives okay? Uhhh I don’t like that answer and being naïve Ive basically done that. Still drives fine but curious if anyone else has seen that message.
I would check the fluid at a minimum to see if it is at the proper level. Do you have MRC along with the eDiff? There is no harm in changing the fluid but GM doesn't really recommend changes unless the car is regularly tracked. Then they recommend changing the fluid after the first track event and then every 24 hours of track time after that. With 22K miles on the diff I sort of doubt a change after the first event will make a difference but if the diff is full I might wait to change it until you get back. Sort of half one way and half the other way.
Also, I had to change brake pads and rotors because they were warped or pulsing or whatever (I know the debate about rotor warping…) and GM said there was a TSB, but I was 1 month out of warranty and asked for 1700 to replace. Got the Z26 PowerStop kit, and I am picking up some Brembo take off pads for the track day as these Z26 pads are not gonna hold, and don’t do near as good of job.
If anyone else has recommendations (I plan on swapping the oil too) for track prep or things I should go after before NCM, that would be appreciated.
Did you replace the rotors when you replaced the pads? Do you still have the original Z51 rotors that require installing the cooling rings in the rotors? They are sort of a PIA. GM later on replaced those with a newer one piece rotor that doesn't have the slots the rings fill. If you think you need new rotors look at some of the offerings by forum vendors. You don't want drilled rotors but there are some excellent choices available at some what reasonable prices. I see you posted while I was typing this. I would get new rotors based on what you said.
I bought this car used with clean car fax at 7k miles on it. Had new tires, noticed that the carpet under the rear rubber mat was ripped by the battery. Also noticed that there was a spade clip not removed from one of the battery terminals. Im guessing its probably been tracked at some time but whatever that’s what you should buy a corvette for. (I was in by the battery because occasionally the gas gauge will stop reading and a battery reset is only way to fix it… and maybe some techron).
I don't know about the Stingray models but my Z06 has a ground sense wire that is attached to the battery cable ground connection. If that wire is broken (and its easy to break) you can get messages like you are seeing. Mine was broken when I took delivery of my car and the dealer mechanic had to splice in some extra wire to keep it from breaking again.
Ive read that with a proper street setup, that most people get pretty even front tire wear, though my front tires definitely have a slant to them and are due to be replaced at 22k miles. Im wondering if the previous owner had the alignment set for the track, what kind of mileage I can expect from driving on the street with a more aggressive alignment. (I like going out on the curvy back roads on the weekends and would see benefit there, but not so much commuting to work).
A visible slant to the tires doesn't indicate a track alignment. With the mileage you got on those tires I would say the alignment was probably set for the street. Have it checked by a qualified shop that has the proper tools to measure rear caster and can set rear caster if required. That can be an issue since a lot of dealers are misinformed about C7 alignment requirements and don't purchase the proper tools although they can borrow them from GM. At most other shops you will truly get blank stares since there are only a few other models that have ever been sold that have rear caster adjustments including the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky. GM has a February 2016 TSB that instructs dealers on how to set the track alignment for both the Stingray and the Z06.
Also wondering how many people actually successfully got the track alignment and how much difference it made. (I have a set of take-offs that I will be having installed soon).
It helps a fair amount and cuts down on tire wear while on track but can hasten tire wear on the street. Double edged sword. As a novice you may not drive fast enough in corners to notice a difference.
Next is the Dot 4 flush. Im fine with flushing it, but Im wondering if I can leave the Dot4 afterward. My 2008 civic has Dot4 in it………..
If you have put 15K miles on the car and haven't touched the brake fluid since you owned it then the fluid needs to be changed before you head to the track. However, although GM says to use DOT 4 there are vast differences in DOT 4 fluids and you usually don't get the good ones at your local auto parts store. You want something with a fairly high dry boiling point that will be installed no more than 2 weeks before the event. Now here is some heresy. Standard DOT3 Ford Brake Fluid has a dry boiling point that exceeds a lot of DOT4 fluids dry boiling point. It is 500 degrees F. It has the standard DOT3 wet boiling point so within a few months it will be the same as the DOT3 you have in the car now. If you don't want to go with the Ford Fluid look for Ferodo Racing Brake Fluid, Wilwood 600 EXP, Wilwood 570, ATE, Motul, or Castrol SRF (hold onto your chair when you read its price). It doesn't hurt to leave the new fluid in the car once you leave the track.
Next would be the differential oil. Im at 22k miles of highway and spirited driving on the weekend. I dunno if the original owner ever changed the fluid or really if it was ever officially tracked, but Im guessing I should change the stuff. I occasionally get “Service Rear Axle” when its cold out, and I asked GM about it and they basically said to ignore it if the car drives okay? Uhhh I don’t like that answer and being naïve Ive basically done that. Still drives fine but curious if anyone else has seen that message.
I would check the fluid at a minimum to see if it is at the proper level. Do you have MRC along with the eDiff? There is no harm in changing the fluid but GM doesn't really recommend changes unless the car is regularly tracked. Then they recommend changing the fluid after the first track event and then every 24 hours of track time after that. With 22K miles on the diff I sort of doubt a change after the first event will make a difference but if the diff is full I might wait to change it until you get back. Sort of half one way and half the other way.
Also, I had to change brake pads and rotors because they were warped or pulsing or whatever (I know the debate about rotor warping…) and GM said there was a TSB, but I was 1 month out of warranty and asked for 1700 to replace. Got the Z26 PowerStop kit, and I am picking up some Brembo take off pads for the track day as these Z26 pads are not gonna hold, and don’t do near as good of job.
If anyone else has recommendations (I plan on swapping the oil too) for track prep or things I should go after before NCM, that would be appreciated.
Did you replace the rotors when you replaced the pads? Do you still have the original Z51 rotors that require installing the cooling rings in the rotors? They are sort of a PIA. GM later on replaced those with a newer one piece rotor that doesn't have the slots the rings fill. If you think you need new rotors look at some of the offerings by forum vendors. You don't want drilled rotors but there are some excellent choices available at some what reasonable prices. I see you posted while I was typing this. I would get new rotors based on what you said.
Also, the OM recommends 15W50 oil for the track. It can be left in the engine when you return. The only detriment to street use is a little less gas mileage and maybe a tendency to reduce cat life to less than the 8 year/80K mile emissions warranty expiration. OM also recommends a half quart over fill on dry sump cars which means you will have a total of 10.3 quarts in the engine.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 04-11-2018 at 09:19 PM.
04-12-2018, 07:08 AM
#5
Drifting
rotors
Bill is spot-on with his reply.
The attached doc for Z51's may help you with rotors. I got a set from TrunkMonkey, free shipping.
The OEM pads are hard on rotors, as they are a semi-metallic and wear the rotors when cold and dust just like "real" track pads. They would be OK for a first time at the track, and the MSP track really isn't hard on brakes and equipment. If you went to Ron Fellows at Spring Mtn, they put Hawk HPS pads on their cars, and their driving experience circuits there are not hard on equipment either. If I were to rate the OEM pads, I would put them in the same class as Hawk HPS, with the HPS higher on the list.
Proper bedding is a must. especially on new rotors.
The attached doc for Z51's may help you with rotors. I got a set from TrunkMonkey, free shipping.
The OEM pads are hard on rotors, as they are a semi-metallic and wear the rotors when cold and dust just like "real" track pads. They would be OK for a first time at the track, and the MSP track really isn't hard on brakes and equipment. If you went to Ron Fellows at Spring Mtn, they put Hawk HPS pads on their cars, and their driving experience circuits there are not hard on equipment either. If I were to rate the OEM pads, I would put them in the same class as Hawk HPS, with the HPS higher on the list.
Proper bedding is a must. especially on new rotors.
Last edited by k24556; 04-12-2018 at 07:10 AM.
04-12-2018, 10:33 AM
#6
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Bill is spot-on with his reply.
The attached doc for Z51's may help you with rotors. I got a set from TrunkMonkey, free shipping.
The OEM pads are hard on rotors, as they are a semi-metallic and wear the rotors when cold and dust just like "real" track pads. They would be OK for a first time at the track, and the MSP track really isn't hard on brakes and equipment. If you went to Ron Fellows at Spring Mtn, they put Hawk HPS pads on their cars, and their driving experience circuits there are not hard on equipment either. If I were to rate the OEM pads, I would put them in the same class as Hawk HPS, with the HPS higher on the list.
Proper bedding is a must. especially on new rotors.
The attached doc for Z51's may help you with rotors. I got a set from TrunkMonkey, free shipping.
The OEM pads are hard on rotors, as they are a semi-metallic and wear the rotors when cold and dust just like "real" track pads. They would be OK for a first time at the track, and the MSP track really isn't hard on brakes and equipment. If you went to Ron Fellows at Spring Mtn, they put Hawk HPS pads on their cars, and their driving experience circuits there are not hard on equipment either. If I were to rate the OEM pads, I would put them in the same class as Hawk HPS, with the HPS higher on the list.
Proper bedding is a must. especially on new rotors.
Anyway I plan on using those with the OEM pads, then switching back to Z26 after. I figured that would be a good option for the first track day!
Also I appreciate the PDF!
Last edited by pouncer11; 04-12-2018 at 10:36 AM.