I was looking for feedback from anyone who has used the Apex track coach system. Considering purchasing one of these units and was hoping some of the other track rats had experience with it and could fill me in.

 

Looks interesting. In for any info from users.

 

Very good thread on this with reviews over on Rennlist.

https://rennlist.com/forums/data-acq...ch-review.html

 

Used my friends for a few sessions today. Here are my initial thoughts.

Easy setup. Doesn't require much at the start of a session to get it linked and working. Your phone can be in a pocket or cubby if you don't have a mount.

The app is pretty easy to use. It's iOS only and an iPhone isn't ideal for data analysis. You can easily share it over to another device and a big iPad would be ideal.

It clearly shows areas where you aren't maximizing the available traction. I noticed two issues/areas that I don't understand though. 1) I'll be mid-corner with the green bars maximized suggesting I'm at the limit. But when I go back and look at the heat maps, there are sporadic areas in corners where the apex % suddenly drops to very low scores and then immediately goes back near 100%. I don't know if this is a glitch, a driving issue, or me simply going over the limit at those moments.

2) the unit will show orange or red while you're flat on a straight. I don't know how this impacts the 'apex score' it generates but it would seem silly to decrease your score due to straight away limitations of the car (can't always be on the limit).

This 'apex score' isnt explained well. I did a 2:25 lap of Sebring and scored a 77%. My buddy turned a 2:31 and his score was 80%. No idea how to interpret that as the literature available suggests your score increases as you get faster...


In the end, I decided not to buy one. I don't want to go buy an iPad just to do data analysis and the poor explanation for interpreting the apex % and score just makes me feel like it's a gimmick.

I'll post some videos when I get home.

 

 

That makes perfect sense actually. I was a bit more confused by it all because he's also driving a Z06. However I'm on Cup tires with full aero and he's on supersports with stage 1 aero. So there are still differences that could explain him having a slower lap but perhaps exploiting the car's ability more than i did.

I still can't figure out some of these 'red' areas sporadically in my heat maps. When i dial down to actual values, the apex values go from 96-100 and then suddenly to 1-10 and then right back up to 96-100. On the display it goes from full green bars to only 2-3 greens and only a few reds beyond that. Am I just exceeding the limit?

 

While I think the PDR and Pi Toolbox are way better for after session analysis I do like that this gives you real time feedback. I'm going to go back to running the Aim Solo just to get the predictive lap timer back.

 

I don't think you'd like the apex coach. If you're aggressive you'll have all the lights green all the time. Without more explanation I don't think this gives nearly the feedback that the Pi/Cosworth toolbox do.

 

Thanks and I should elaborate on my other comment. Pi toolbox is still my go to data analysis tool and I think it kills everything else on the market if you have PDR. The one thing the Aim Solo gives me that PDR doesn't is realtime feedback in the car through the predictive lap timer and I'm going to put it in the car again without bothering to plug it in to the OBDII.

I really wish someone could offer something with realtime feedback that integrates with the PDR.

 

The predictive timer sounds great. I'd particularly like that when I'm part way through a lap and get hung in traffic. If the lap isn't a contender for a personal best I could back off and practice some other driving skills rather than push for another 6 turns to only then find I was off my time by 3-4 seconds.

 

Here's a little video of me using my buddy's Apex Coach. When you exceed the limit, you lose your dots and your score goes down the tubes.

 

The part where I would like to figure out how to improve is from turn in to apex. That's where all of my time for the most part is lost. Some is lost in corners over 100 mph but not too much.

When I go frame by frame with Driver's that are actually quick in cars with similar performance capabilities their gap is made during trailbraking down to the apex. We are comparable at apex to track out and on the following straights.

While I really don't want to be looking at anything other than the business at hand is it possible that something like this could help me? In other words would it let me know if I could be going faster in the braking zones as I am turning down to the apex than I am?

 

Hypothetically it should help you. My impression is you'd see a red dot or two as you're turning in and approaching the apex which would signify grip left on the table.

My fundamental concern with this device is simply that it's based on traction and slip via accelerometers. While hard to describe, I can envision a 'bad' driver who maximizes the green dots but drives poor lines or is abrupt with inputs (ie slow). So I imagine a great Apex score doesn't necessarily mean you've done a bang up lap.

 

The way I have been analyzing my laps is to use video and literally go frame by frame and see where I am losing time. Here's my example.

This first video is me in my ACR-E. I am many seconds off the pace for the car and for the track. The second video is Andrew Aquilante in a C7Z. I use him as a benchmark typically because he drives at and has video from the tracks I frequent.

I line the videos up at the exact same points on track and go through the laps over and over to see where I need to go faster. Last season this method helped me get quicker everywhere, sub 2 at the Glen (3 seconds better), 1:08's at Lightning (2 seconds better), quickest here at T bolt by over 1 second etc.

Then I watch Andrew's video's and wow is there speed to be had in the brake zones. The MPH difference during corner entry on the brakes is astonishing.



The issue is HOW DO I KNOW how much faster I can go? I can't afford to wad the thing up regularly "finding" the absolute limits and my seat time is limited to one weekend per month since crap like money and work get in the way. That's why I am hoping I can find something like this "Apex" technology that can help "tell me" if I can go faster.

I am going to be hiring a coach and maybe I will be able to go for a ride along and see where the coach is faster? I learn best by seeing something done and then it at least let's me know the car is capable of it.

 

Honestly you need a real data system. I am all-in on the PDR and Cosworth Pi Toolbox but given we're talking about the Viper I'd look at the Aim Solo DL or something like that. I actually don't know how good the telemetry is that the DL picks up for the Viper but at least you know you'll get speed and accelerometer data.

I posted a video this weekend comparing badhabit_wb laps against himself which is really the best way to improve since you know you can do it. You can see around the 8 minute mark where he picks up 3 tenths in T1 even though he starts braking at the same speed and reaches the same apex speed, it was all in the way he slowed the car carrying more speed longer. It's really clear in the speed trace.


Of course, learning *how* to carry the speed longer is hard and I would recommend actually braking a little earlier and scrubbing a little speed up front so you're not so panicked going in. Then see how far you can carry the speed down and still get to the apex under control. Compare the sector times and speed traces to see how you're doing.

If you decide you want to move up to an expertly setup 2017 C7 Z06 with PDR let me know, I happen to know a guy selling one. I hear it runs 1:15 flat at SP and a 1:57.5 at VIR.

 

This made me smile! You know I thought about it. Might be a ZR1 next though depending on how you make out with yours.

The C6Z is going to be wicked as well once it's done. Similar in pace to the ZR1 and quicker than the ACR-E I would expect at full power. Have to turn it down to fit into TT1.

I have the Race Keeper in the Viper but I hate the video quality. I could certainly use it and keep the video with the Garmin Virb.

Right now I use Race Chrono Pro on a tablet attached to a Garmin GLO so it's more accurate. I pour over that data constantly seeing where I need to be quicker. What helped me the most though last season was reviewing my data and looking directly at the video's of car placement and speeds of faster cars and doing my best to replicate it.

I have done the same with your videos for this weekend. I am going to be at Summit Main and other than there being a bunch of cars there if I get clear track I know what I need to do just from watching your video's. 110 + in the kink and 90 + in 9 and same in 10 will get me where I want to be.

Also depends on the weather of course. I am bringing my Hoosier wets for the C7GS just in case it rains so I can get some seat time and it looks like it might both days.

 

Giv'em hell this weekend. I'm going to be out of town or I'd come hang out.

 

You have set the bar pretty damn high but I will do my best!! Luckily I have a lap or two there.