Potential oil?

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Jun 4, 2018 | 05:58 PM

#21

raylo

Thread Starter

Drifting

Joined: Dec 2015

Posts: 1,410

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From: Germantown Maryland

LOL... no one here is taking this all that seriously except you guys! This qualifies as a first world problem... which means it really isn't a problem. And some of us don't have the warble, don't have a fuel tank leak (yet), or have an soon to destruct A8. So alls we have to talk about is our oil changes. To me the Dexos thing isn't a big deal. I find the viscosity question more interesting. GM makes a spec based on wherever you drive the car from Alaska to Miami. Me? I don't see the need or value in putting anything 0W in my car where and how I drive in between the mid Atlantic and Florida. So I am liking the 5W-40 offerings. Maybe splitting hairs but so what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEXHAWK0

I agree. Sometimes you just want to reach out and slap them and say "Snap out of it!"

I actually use Valvoline Synpower 5w30 in ALL my cars and none have imploded yet.

Jun 4, 2018 | 07:01 PM

#22

TEXHAWK0

Le Mans Master

Joined: Sep 2003

Posts: 8,847

Likes: 795

From: Longview Texas

Quote:

Originally Posted by raylo

Also, having grown up in the straight 30 weight generation, I still have difficulty trusting that multi-weight oils really change viscosities when they are supposed to, especially the 0 weight! It is against my engineering intuition that viscosity can actually increase as the oil gets hot, and decrease when cold.

Last edited by TEXHAWK0; Jun 4, 2018 at 07:01 PM.

Jun 4, 2018 | 07:07 PM

#23

raylo

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Drifting

Joined: Dec 2015

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From: Germantown Maryland

Me, too. I grew up with straight weight, then lots of 10-40. For multi-grade formulas the oil really doesn't get thicker as it gets hot. As temp rises the viscosity modifiers just cause the oil to get thinner more slowly and never get thinner than the same straight weight of the higher number (like 40 weight) would. Just the reverse on the low end. The bigger the range the more modifiers you need.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEXHAWK0

Last edited by raylo; Jun 4, 2018 at 07:09 PM.

Jun 4, 2018 | 08:01 PM

#24

JerryU

E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT

Joined: Sep 2007

Posts: 34,912

Likes: 12,327

From: NE South Carolina

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEXHAWK0

It is against my engineering intuition that viscosity can actually increase as the oil gets hot, and decrease when cold.

It doesn't increase in viscosity with temp it just reduces like a heavier weight oil. I recall the "original" Mobil 1 that was made from man made molecules did reduce very little. It was a Group IV oil, which since 2000 it's no longer. Either is the Valvoline made from natural gas. It like Mobil 1 is a Group III. I looked into the properties thinking if it was the old Group IV and it might help with "coking." Turns out no oil can really help baking on a 500++ degree F intake valve!

(Group IV base oils are made from polyalphaolefins (PAO), which are chemically engineered synthesized base oils. PAOs offer excellent stability, molecular uniformity and improved performance. There are some Group IV oils but very expensive. )

Our resident forum oil expert LDB, says he is also concerned about pushing it too far as over time those "viscosity improves" deteriorate. He was going to see just what they are using from their SDS sheets if possible. They may have developed a newer product that retains it's properties for a year or so!

Recall asking Dale Inman, when we worked with the Petty Racing Team years ago, about the 00 (or some such name) oil they were using to get extra hp/mpg! Wondered what it did for wear! He just laughed and said works great for the 500 miles we need!

Last edited by JerryU; Jun 5, 2018 at 10:45 AM.

Jun 4, 2018 | 08:09 PM

#25

Patman

Race Director

Joined: May 2001

Posts: 15,323

Likes: 2,077

From: Guelph, Ontario

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEXHAWK0

Trust me, oil does not get thicker as it gets hotter, it gets thinner. If you look at the specs on this oil you can see that, because at 40c the oil has a viscosity of 69 cst and by the time it warms up to 100c that viscosity is now thinner, at 12.9 cst.

Jun 5, 2018 | 09:13 AM

#26

cv67

Team Owner

Joined: Oct 2004

Posts: 81,241

Likes: 3,063

From: altered state

St. Jude Donor '05

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrsperry

Oh dear god... Just stop it...

You all going on and on about this is like people asking if buying a lottery ticket at a Jiffy Mart gave them a better chance of winning that one bought at a circle K...

The chance of ANYONE having an oil related failure due to not using Dexos cert oil is about ZERO. Just like your chance of winning the Mega Millions.

Jun 6, 2018 | 02:36 PM

#27

TEXHAWK0

Le Mans Master

Joined: Sep 2003

Posts: 8,847

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From: Longview Texas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patman

I thought the whole point of multi-weight oil was to act like 40 weight when up to temperature, but be 0 weight when starting a cold engine.(less protection, but will flow faster)

Jun 6, 2018 | 03:12 PM

#28

Patman

Race Director

Joined: May 2001

Posts: 15,323

Likes: 2,077

From: Guelph, Ontario

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEXHAWK0

I thought the whole point of multi-weight oil was to act like 40 weight when up to temperature, but be 0 weight when starting a cold engine.(less protection, but will flow faster)

It's not quite that way. An oil that has the 0w rating simply flows a lot better in the extreme cold than an oil with the 5w rating. In order to get the 0w rating it needs to pass a more stringent cold cranking test (at -30 or -35 degrees for instance) than an oil with the 5w rating. But all motor oil is going to still be thicker when the temperature is cold and will then thin out when it gets hot. Viscosity Index improvers keep it from thinning out too much in extreme heat, which is one of the ways that this new oil can get the 0w40 designation, as it can remain a 40 weight oil at 212F.