Possible Borla/Manzo X Pipe alternative
Pro
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 518
Likes: 184
From: Machesney Park IL
Evening all! Was able to get this installed last week and thought I'd share my thoughts....
Like the other poster, I like the fit and finish -- Quality seems nice especially in comparison to the stock pipe. Install was relatively straight forward except for a few things:
1. Top speed says they include 'gaskets' -- Sort of. They include the metal clamps that hold the x pipe into the muffler piping. They do not include the donut gaskets (I just reused the ones from my stock xpipe).
2. As mentioned, they do not include nuts/bolts with the Top Speed x pipe -- it says you can reuse the stock bolts but this is incorrect. The flange on the xpipe has MUCH larger holes, and the stock bolts are much too thin -- I ended up having to go by lowes to purchase new bolts. I bought 2.5" 3/8 bolts which seem to have worked fine.
3. Like the other poster I had to bolt one side (collector) up to the stock header pipe and then pull on the other with a good amount of force to get it to fit properly. Once pulled apart by friction both pipes fit the stock header piping just fine and bolt up fine. I haven't detected any exhaust leaks, so I think things are OK overall.
Overall, I'd give fitment an 7 out of 10 in that you have to give it some force, but ultimately everything seems fine without leaks.
As far as sound: The car is definitely louder at WOT (25%) and probably 10% louder in normal cruising when the NPP exhaust valves are open. I'm not sure I would call the sound 'raspy', but rather 'gritty' -- Raspy (to me) has a negative connotation. There are absolutely more pops/gurgles and exotic sounds over the stock pipe. The only thing that I'm not terribly excited about is the loss of 'deepness' (bass). Although it sounds great, I think the xpipe thins out the low end of the exhaust note (probably because of the resonators) -- I'm not sure how folks claim that the car sounds 'deeper' (assuming that deeper means thicker, more body, more bass, etc). There is still some low end, but not as much as the stock car had and i'm not sure that that will improve over time (I don't believe resonators 'break in').
With all of that being said, I come away confused because I've watched videos on youtube of the borla x pipe (no resonators), and I can easily hear a loss of body/bass in comparison to the stock setup -- and yet several people claim the borla is 'deeper'.
Overall, I wish the Top Speed put out a bit more bottom end (bass/deepness) and then it would be literally perfect. But with that being said, I'm not convinced yet that the borla or corsa are any deeper either -- So its possible that all pipes respond the same and folk's just have different opinions
Like the other poster, I like the fit and finish -- Quality seems nice especially in comparison to the stock pipe. Install was relatively straight forward except for a few things:
1. Top speed says they include 'gaskets' -- Sort of. They include the metal clamps that hold the x pipe into the muffler piping. They do not include the donut gaskets (I just reused the ones from my stock xpipe).
2. As mentioned, they do not include nuts/bolts with the Top Speed x pipe -- it says you can reuse the stock bolts but this is incorrect. The flange on the xpipe has MUCH larger holes, and the stock bolts are much too thin -- I ended up having to go by lowes to purchase new bolts. I bought 2.5" 3/8 bolts which seem to have worked fine.
3. Like the other poster I had to bolt one side (collector) up to the stock header pipe and then pull on the other with a good amount of force to get it to fit properly. Once pulled apart by friction both pipes fit the stock header piping just fine and bolt up fine. I haven't detected any exhaust leaks, so I think things are OK overall.
Overall, I'd give fitment an 7 out of 10 in that you have to give it some force, but ultimately everything seems fine without leaks.
As far as sound: The car is definitely louder at WOT (25%) and probably 10% louder in normal cruising when the NPP exhaust valves are open. I'm not sure I would call the sound 'raspy', but rather 'gritty' -- Raspy (to me) has a negative connotation. There are absolutely more pops/gurgles and exotic sounds over the stock pipe. The only thing that I'm not terribly excited about is the loss of 'deepness' (bass). Although it sounds great, I think the xpipe thins out the low end of the exhaust note (probably because of the resonators) -- I'm not sure how folks claim that the car sounds 'deeper' (assuming that deeper means thicker, more body, more bass, etc). There is still some low end, but not as much as the stock car had and i'm not sure that that will improve over time (I don't believe resonators 'break in').
With all of that being said, I come away confused because I've watched videos on youtube of the borla x pipe (no resonators), and I can easily hear a loss of body/bass in comparison to the stock setup -- and yet several people claim the borla is 'deeper'.
Overall, I wish the Top Speed put out a bit more bottom end (bass/deepness) and then it would be literally perfect. But with that being said, I'm not convinced yet that the borla or corsa are any deeper either -- So its possible that all pipes respond the same and folk's just have different opinions
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 248
Likes: 35
From: New England
Evening all! Was able to get this installed last week and thought I'd share my thoughts....
Like the other poster, I like the fit and finish -- Quality seems nice especially in comparison to the stock pipe. Install was relatively straight forward except for a few things:
1. Top speed says they include 'gaskets' -- Sort of. They include the metal clamps that hold the x pipe into the muffler piping. They do not include the donut gaskets (I just reused the ones from my stock xpipe).
2. As mentioned, they do not include nuts/bolts with the Top Speed x pipe -- it says you can reuse the stock bolts but this is incorrect. The flange on the xpipe has MUCH larger holes, and the stock bolts are much too thin -- I ended up having to go by lowes to purchase new bolts. I bought 2.5" 3/8 bolts which seem to have worked fine.
3. Like the other poster I had to bolt one side (collector) up to the stock header pipe and then pull on the other with a good amount of force to get it to fit properly. Once pulled apart by friction both pipes fit the stock header piping just fine and bolt up fine. I haven't detected any exhaust leaks, so I think things are OK overall.
Overall, I'd give fitment an 7 out of 10 in that you have to give it some force, but ultimately everything seems fine without leaks.
As far as sound: The car is definitely louder at WOT (25%) and probably 10% louder in normal cruising when the NPP exhaust valves are open. I'm not sure I would call the sound 'raspy', but rather 'gritty' -- Raspy (to me) has a negative connotation. There are absolutely more pops/gurgles and exotic sounds over the stock pipe. The only thing that I'm not terribly excited about is the loss of 'deepness' (bass). Although it sounds great, I think the xpipe thins out the low end of the exhaust note (probably because of the resonators) -- I'm not sure how folks claim that the car sounds 'deeper' (assuming that deeper means thicker, more body, more bass, etc). There is still some low end, but not as much as the stock car had and i'm not sure that that will improve over time (I don't believe resonators 'break in').
With all of that being said, I come away confused because I've watched videos on youtube of the borla x pipe (no resonators), and I can easily hear a loss of body/bass in comparison to the stock setup -- and yet several people claim the borla is 'deeper'.
Overall, I wish the Top Speed put out a bit more bottom end (bass/deepness) and then it would be literally perfect. But with that being said, I'm not convinced yet that the borla or corsa are any deeper either -- So its possible that all pipes respond the same and folk's just have different opinions
Like the other poster, I like the fit and finish -- Quality seems nice especially in comparison to the stock pipe. Install was relatively straight forward except for a few things:
1. Top speed says they include 'gaskets' -- Sort of. They include the metal clamps that hold the x pipe into the muffler piping. They do not include the donut gaskets (I just reused the ones from my stock xpipe).
2. As mentioned, they do not include nuts/bolts with the Top Speed x pipe -- it says you can reuse the stock bolts but this is incorrect. The flange on the xpipe has MUCH larger holes, and the stock bolts are much too thin -- I ended up having to go by lowes to purchase new bolts. I bought 2.5" 3/8 bolts which seem to have worked fine.
3. Like the other poster I had to bolt one side (collector) up to the stock header pipe and then pull on the other with a good amount of force to get it to fit properly. Once pulled apart by friction both pipes fit the stock header piping just fine and bolt up fine. I haven't detected any exhaust leaks, so I think things are OK overall.
Overall, I'd give fitment an 7 out of 10 in that you have to give it some force, but ultimately everything seems fine without leaks.
As far as sound: The car is definitely louder at WOT (25%) and probably 10% louder in normal cruising when the NPP exhaust valves are open. I'm not sure I would call the sound 'raspy', but rather 'gritty' -- Raspy (to me) has a negative connotation. There are absolutely more pops/gurgles and exotic sounds over the stock pipe. The only thing that I'm not terribly excited about is the loss of 'deepness' (bass). Although it sounds great, I think the xpipe thins out the low end of the exhaust note (probably because of the resonators) -- I'm not sure how folks claim that the car sounds 'deeper' (assuming that deeper means thicker, more body, more bass, etc). There is still some low end, but not as much as the stock car had and i'm not sure that that will improve over time (I don't believe resonators 'break in').
With all of that being said, I come away confused because I've watched videos on youtube of the borla x pipe (no resonators), and I can easily hear a loss of body/bass in comparison to the stock setup -- and yet several people claim the borla is 'deeper'.
Overall, I wish the Top Speed put out a bit more bottom end (bass/deepness) and then it would be literally perfect. But with that being said, I'm not convinced yet that the borla or corsa are any deeper either -- So its possible that all pipes respond the same and folk's just have different opinions
I would like to add that above 3000 rpm's it really barks.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 168
Likes: 91
1. I put my xpipe on my car 3 days after buying it -- So I did not have a ton of time in the car to really memorize/recall what the stock xpipe sounds like. It's very possible that the new xpipe is just as deep as the stock pipe (although I suspect its not) based upon my short experience with the car.
2. It's possible that the 'deepness' has simple changed RPM ranges -- Meaning that with cats the exhaust might resonate more (producing more 'bass' tones) at low RPM or mid RPM, while removing the cats (with the new xpipe) cuts out this resonance or moves it to a different RPM. In this situation, the only solution would be to introduce some turbulence into the xpipe somehow to change the RPM that resonance comes in at.
At any rate, I'll pop the car up on the neighbor's lift and swap the stock pipe back in, just to do an A/B comparison again and i'll report back with thoughts so we can all benefit.
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 127
From: West Chester PA
__________________
www.cspracing.com * Complete Street Performance * CALL US 610-628-1563
And don't forget to Like us on Facebook and follow us on Instagram @completestreet
And don't forget to Like us on Facebook and follow us on Instagram @completestreet
Last edited by Complete Street; Jul 11, 2019 at 02:11 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 168
Likes: 91
I won't be able to get the car back up onto the lift under saturday -- but thought I might share one more thought. I was looking around at videos of the borla pipe (Which does not have resonators like the top speed) and I can also hear a loss in deepness (although it is slight).
If you listen to this video with headphones you can hear the difference in the deep/bass tones at idle.
1:15 (stock) vs 1:38 (borla xpipe)
This supports my theory that all x pipes, regardless of resonators, will be slightly less deep than stock, or at least the perception will vary (since there is a bit more bark, which may change what the ear hears).
In this sort of situation (where the loss of deep tones is a universal trait amongst pipes) the resonators are actually a benefit to have -- they would slightly reduce any rasp. At any rate I will test and report back.
If you listen to this video with headphones you can hear the difference in the deep/bass tones at idle.
This supports my theory that all x pipes, regardless of resonators, will be slightly less deep than stock, or at least the perception will vary (since there is a bit more bark, which may change what the ear hears).
In this sort of situation (where the loss of deep tones is a universal trait amongst pipes) the resonators are actually a benefit to have -- they would slightly reduce any rasp. At any rate I will test and report back.
