Thats a great theory but...... and sounds great to the uninformed .... you really think GM programed in a lean condition on tip in , with all the control an ECM has over the fuel system not to mention the fact that an LT1 is direct port injected ????

All you have to do is look at logs to see that the lag you feel is NOT fuel related.... but you can believe what you want that's why i said it was the placebo effect 😏 😉

Dave

 

It makes a lot more sense that GM would program a lean condition at idle to help meet emissions goals than it does to think GM intentionally built in a lag to the throttle that would serve no purpose and would upset of lot of owners. Do you really think GM was unable to build a throttle control system and throttle body that provides good drivabilty?

 

Rick I am not going to debate with u , you have your opinion and then I have mine , and for those that know me on this forum know , my opinion based on fact that is backed by real data, in this case its backed by many data logs .

GM did not program in a lean condition , a lean condition could potentially increase NOX emmissons and could also pull timing because of Knock retard .....Lol lol

Show me a log that shows the O2 sensor commanding less fuel when in closed loop or a wide band registering a super lean condition off idle when the throttle is stabbed ....the wide band will show it for less than a split second before the ECM reacts and some of the split second reading is caused by the response time of the wide band Is slower than the ECM response time

GM programed the slow throttle ramp to keep owners from killing them selfs lol . The same goes with other things like torque management and stability control that all work in concert with the throttle response to keep us alive in a 460 HP to over 500 HP street car . Vehicle manufacturers are now putting 10 to 11 second in the quarter mile cars into the hands of anyone who can pay the entry fee and developed the systems that keep most safe

I race my car a lot, I turn off all the nannies and with and with the Vitesse set to give me as much throttle as the track will hold along with a tune that is commanding 100% throttle body opening ( yep ur throttle body might not be fully open even though your foot is planed to the floor ) I can tell you it can be a handful coming out of the gate . Before tune best I could pull with my LT1 on a 60ft time was 1.9 to 2.0 on stock run craps . But after tune and the Vitesse set to give me as much throttle as the track will hold I now pop off a 1.6 to .1.8 60 ft times on the stock run craps .Imagine how many owners would get into trouble if GM programed every car this way?

Now did GM go to far with the slow ramp in , maybe but remember autos dont feel this as much as the stick guys so my feeling , and yeah its a feeling , is that it is a combo of the slow ramp in and the engagement properties of the clutch

Dave

 

Dave,

I only have experience with my own car. Maybe something is wrong with it. My car is an auto but it definitely hesitates on tip in. I have many years experience in tuning Holley 4 barrel carbs and my car exhibits the same tip in lean bog as Holley with too low of a rise rate on the accel pump cam. If it had a Holley, I would be swapping accel pumps cams right now!

I would love to see some of your data logs if you would care to share them.

Rick

 

I think we can arrange this as I use a Diablo to log the data and their viewer is free to download

Just have to figure out how I can show you how to setup the dashboard so you can see everything, then do a log of a tip in , below is a screen shot of the diablo viewer and the some of the PID's I log , there are more available but ......


What we used to do with JETS, 50CC accelerator pumps, advanced weights and springs is now all done with a laptop and software ....

I can log a run and then play it back thru the dashboard where I can spot any anomalies and make adjustments accordingly , those that say a Diablo is junk ... have never used one like this lol lol
Dave

 

Have you talked with Mike at Soler and explained the situation? Perhaps he would be agreeable to just having you send the one you just got back as a return.

 

Agreed, and this explains the sluggish throttle response for the first 30% of foot feed travel, but what causes the bog off idle with a quick application of significant throttle?

The car often feels as if it is going to stall. This is true on both M7s and A8s.

For me, there are two separate issues, the bog and the sluggish throttle response.

 

Quote: 'GM programed the slow throttle ramp to keep owners from killing .....'

Having driven my C7/M7 for nearly six years now, that may very well be the case as I've always felt the sudden blip of the throttle from idle, under no load, produced a somewhat anemic response. That's not my everyday driving style and not a big deal to me, but still noticeable. The C5 and C6 are similar.

Now, enable Rev Matching on the C7, and the whole engine response to a downshift seems to be a night and day difference. The engine responds immediately with a very crisp RPM increase to match the RPM in time for a potentially fast clutch release. I have not been able to replicate the rapidity of that response if I were heel & toeing the car myself. That tells me the stock engine is capable of immediate throttle response but GM has muted the driver input in normal situations. If the throttle controller improves this, I may consider this just for the ability to get a consistent and satisfying heel / toe.

 

Agreed , same thing happens with and auto when performance shift is engaged , thottle response is instantaneous ..... people want to flash the thottle in neutral and have an instantaneous response ... ?????

Dave

 

Get the throttle controller. Its incredible. Just put mine in and the throttle is super responsive and makes the car really fun to drive.. You think its fun to drive now, put the controller in, set it to sport 5 and it will feel like you just put 4:10 gears in it.. Very impressive..

 

absolutely do not agree with that.. My brothers C6 M6 didn't have this problem. However they programmed the throttle, they F'd up! I've never felt throttle lag that bad on any other sports car. The Soler throttle controller I just put in my car Sat solved the issue and your not going to kill yourself. Sport 3-7 is good,beyond that its too touchy IMO. The stock throttle has a lazy feeling to it and it shouldn't be that way. Drive a Hellcat and see if Dodge put a block under the gas pedal so you won't kill yourself..

 

Ahem...


Elmer

 

Eh, my C6Z was pretty irritating on the throttle side of things. Not quite like my C7 but it took me a long time to get used to pushing the throttle pedal so far down to maintain speed. It felt about as sporty as my service van below about 30% throttle.

 

Thanks, you just cost me more money. I’ll probably order the controller tomorrow.

QUOTE=Goat 2 Vette;1602143182]Get the throttle controller. Its incredible. Just put mine in and the throttle is super responsive and makes the car really fun to drive.. You think its fun to drive now, put the controller in, set it to sport 5 and it will feel like you just put 4:10 gears in it.. Very impressive..[/QUOTE]

 

Just call Soler and talk with them.

 

[/QUOTE]

After you get it in and try it out and have a big smile on your face.. Be sure to thank me for getting you to spend that $95 :P

 

yep , same as my C6
If it was not an issue until the C7 why has Vitesse and now Solar sold so many C6 and CTS V throttle controllers .... the GM methodology to programing the slow ramp in of the throttle is not a new one at all

Dave

 

All I know is my brother's C6 felt way better than my C7, he noticed it big time also. It didn't have the fun factor of his C6.. Now it does..

 

I had a Vitesse throttle controller for my M7. It was nice but it also ramped up tip in and made normal driving trickier. So I would change settings depending on whether in traffic or not. Then it crapped out. So I got a Mamo ported throttle body. Huge improvement everywhere including tip in. Happily drove it that way for a few years. Recently got a Soler controller and it’s better than the Vitesse with stock throttle body ever was. I drive on real roads, not drag race stuff, so precise throttle response is important.

 

Are you interested in selling it? Needs to fit 2014 z51 Auto 6.

Ray