Would really appreciate some opinions as I'm getting very inconsistent info from different shops, combined with many shops "telling" me what do as opposed to educating me and understanding what I'm looking for. Feeling the need to take control, decide what I want and just do it. Quick disclaimer, no E85 for me. I have where I live, but not enough where I'm moving next year. Also not looking to do a cam or headers, not looking for huge power and I don't want my wife to hate the car lol

16 zo6 my, currently mods are AFE Intake, Corsa Performance NPP exhaust, DSC Sport Controller and MGW Shifter. On 91 I baselined at 510, after mods and tune 546. Seems low, but I'm also getting 2nd opinions. A different tuner said even on 91 I should be 550 and he would be close to 600 with my mods and his tune. Getting info all over the map. I have a Corsa Double Helix xpipe on the way purchased form someone on this forum.

Not looking to too crazy power, not now. Just want a little more. Looking for 600-650 wheel. After the DSC the car puts the power down very well, I don't' want to exceed the grip on the factor super sports too much but the car can take more.

Sorry for the song and dance. Thinking about a Griptech 2.3 upper pulley, lower pulley (maybe the whole Lingenfelter 720 kit) Katech 103 mm throttle body and a new tune with a shop that is willing to take more time to get a good 91 obtain tune without badgering me to go e85 (yes, I know all the benefits corn and I agree). Also whatever supporting cooling mods, like a heat exchanger and/or coolant reservoir. I'm not opposed to a kong ported blower, but I think I want to play with the stock blower first.

Any other supporting mods that I'm missing? New plugs, wires, anything? What sort of gains can I expect?

Thanks in advance!

 

Just add a 2650 Maggie and you'll be stellar

 

Funny you say that, I called Magnusson this morning and talked to them for a while. They are saying you don't need any other cooling mods with their super charger. But then they referred me to a Cordes Performance, I talked to them and they disagreed and said you still need all the usual cooling mods lol

But yes, I think the 2650 is probably a good fit for my goals. Stock like or from what they say improved less problematic acceleration and will cap out about what power I want to get to without running the risk of other problems. The last thing I want is to be in the shop often for all these mods having issues. Probably best to spend a little extra and be done with.

Seems like with the 2650 and my mods I can get to a safe 700 wheel, and according to them the car can still put the power down on stock tires. Which is what I want.

 

I would not do a 2650 on a bone stock car, on 91 you'll make roughly 630-640 rwhp on a dynojet assuming an auto. If you did headers with it sure, but id personally stick with the stock blower unless you plan on 850+ rwhp later or want 800 wheel at some point on 91 with a cam setup. You spoke to devlin today and on a bone stock car you'll be fine stock cooling, however our tank will aid in burping the system and keep the lines looking nice and not like rats nest of hose lol!

 

I'm getting conflicting information around every corner. Per the reason for my post, I'm slowing things down and gathering as much data as I can and then I'll decide for myself after I aggregate everyone's opinions. I'm good with cooling mods regardless, no negative with more cooling.

But Magnuson says below from their video 91 tune on a stock car they got 728whp at 7k, at 6500 looks like 700. But, their stock blower dyno showed 545whp, I got 510 with nothing and 546 with an AFE intake, Corsa Performance NPP and tune. I'm getting a 2nd opinion/dyno diagnostic next week.

Again, I get a different answer from each shop, every dyno is different, temperature on the day of the dyno and all the rest. Taking their graph at 6500 RPM at 700whp, if I take off my lower 35hwhp baseline, but add that back with my current mods, xpipe and 103mm throttle body and get high 6's I'm good with that. Next year I'll move the TX and re-tune for 93 and I'm sure it will be higher.

Either that I I go down the route of maxing out the stock blower with pulleys and maybe a Kong Ported blower. Not 100% opposed to it, but then I'm half or more than half way to the 2650. Feels cleaner just to replace the blower completely and call it a day.

 

I will bet $1000 dollars that car would not make over 700+ rwhp on 91 in an auto on my dynojet. Did this car ever get run at the track at this power level on straight 91? Stop chasing dyno numbers and work with someone who has a solid reputation with Gen V lt cars and actually can tune them properly and keep them alive.

 

You realize you are not local to me? I live in CA and will relocate to TX next year, I would have to ship the car to you. Did you read my original post or just the posts about the 2650? Feel free to actually offer solutions per my original post and I'm happy to listen. So far, you are just saying what not to do which is not helpful.

Side note, Magnuson referred me to you as both a good tuner and cooling mods. You may want to refrain from publicly disagreeing with them.

 

In response to your original post.

"Sorry for the song and dance. Thinking about a Griptech 2.3 upper pulley, lower pulley (maybe the whole Lingenfelter 720 kit) Katech 103 mm throttle body and a new tune with a shop that is willing to take more time to get a good 91 obtain tune without badgering me to go e85 (yes, I know all the benefits corn and I agree). Also whatever supporting cooling mods, like a heat exchanger and/or coolant reservoir. I'm not opposed to a kong ported blower, but I think I want to play with the stock blower first.

Any other supporting mods that I'm missing? New plugs, wires, anything? What sort of gains can I expect?"

You cannot run a pulley change and stock manifolds and cats on 91, you will ping like crazy and most likely make less power as you're shoving more airflow down an engine with no added octane and not improving efficiency on the backend. If you do a pulley you will need at minimum headers and I would only do a 2.3 upper. Making power is cake, it's air, fuel, timing. Drivability separates the good from the bad and making safe power and not turning off knock sensors to ram home more timing.

Magnuson referred me that's fantastic we do a lot of these, the video you posted is from the old president who is not there. I had dinner w/ my sales rep and his boss about a month ago and I told them that magnuson should pull that video down because it's absolutely unrealistic. If that cost me a sale that's fine with me. You will find that my complete transparency and giving realistic numbers and times to back up what we build is unlike many other places (minus a small pool of few who do)

 

Sounds like you are saying it's pointless to modify a 91 octane c7 car with out headers or a cam? I'm not doing headers, cam or e85, which making those tiny gains for the 2650 sound pretty good lol Or just wait until I move to Texas where I'll get 93 and go from there.

I already gave you a sale, I purchased your expansion tank earlier. I felt a loss of power this past weekend on a warmer day so I figured I'd give it a shot.

 

Yes it's 100% pointless to do a pulley on a lt4 car with stock headers on 91, even on 93 I wouldn't do it. If you won't do headers do intake, flex (can run up to e50) and make 630-640 wheel all day and put 91 in it when you want and the tune auto adjust.

 

Question on this, on your dyno in this example of 630-640 for a stock car with an auto. What was the baseline? Since magnusons numbers are off I'm curious of the real apples to apples gains on a stock car.

Mine is a m7, I'm hearing manuals dyno higher, but not sure how much. Also I'm not completely stock, AFE intake, Corsa Performance NPP and a corsa double helix xpipe I'll have this week. Not much, I know, but not stock.

 

most manuals make 550 wheel on my dyno if everything is working well. autos 525-535. Your mods I would expect 10-15 hp max over stock.

 

I'm a believer in e85, and it's everywhere in CA. But not where I'm moving, I would have to make a habit of buying large tanks to fill up and keep at home which I have no interest in. But, maybe there will be more stations that pop up, I'll monitor it. Don't see the point in getting used to the power just to lose it.

How's the e85 coverage in the valley? I lived in AZ for many years and I'll be opening up an office in Chandler at some point soon and we'll probably eventually get a 2nd home there. Love AZ, just not the Summer.

 

So I'm assuming you dislike Mike Sitar or maybe Magnuson products. I know Mike and worked for him at Magnuson and I was there when he was doing these Videos and I also ran the 2300 and 2650 on my Gen6 Camaro and they are not bull **** videos. Not sure why you'd say a 2650 shouldn't be run on a stock motor Lt4 or Lt1 motor. Just my opinion on your posts. No one should chase dyno numbers but great power will show up at the track and dynos are for tuning only in my opinion which we agree on. Joe I don't know you but when I was at Magnuson I dealt some of the employees at Cordes and had great conversations with them and your C7 was one of the first to make over a 1000 RWHP with the 2650 and that was very cool. I guess we all have our opinions and I just don't agree with some of yours and you won't agree with some of mine. I still respect your company and have referred guys to you from the forum and when I was at Magnuson. Good times, RIght?

 

If 91 octane fuel is all you can run then I wouldn't mod the car any further than you already have. You won't do headers and you won't do flex fuel. Those are the two things you need to pulley the car and over spin the blower. If you won't do either one then you should just give up on the idea. Yes you can get a Maggy 2300, but the power increase won't be incredible, especially because you're on 91 octane and stock manifolds. You can't have your cake and eat it too. There is no magic trick no one has considered yet. It is well documented what makes power with the LT4's.

 

I'm looking at the 2650. I'll be stuck with a 91 tune for safety, however there a station 2 miles from my house with 100, I've been mixing 100 and 91 to get over 93.

I don't need insane power, I want the car to put the power down and maintain a factory-like feel. I daily the car. I'm happy to wait to mod more until I move to TX where there's 93, but I'm researching due to massive inconsistent answers from shop to shop.

 

One of your biggest benefits is AITs and if your moving to Texas with the blistering heat then the intercoolers on the 2650 will benefit you a lot. Just going from a 2300 to 2650 on my 16 Camaro I saw 30 degrees drop in my AITs and the 1740s have very small intercooler bricks compared to the 2300 or the 2650 which are huge to the 1740. You might even see 40-50 more degrees drop from your Lt4 blower. Thats HP because the tune isn't pulling timing like it would on the 2300 or the 1740. The blower sits between the heads so cooler blower may result in cooler engine temps compared to what you have now.

 

You're mike right? Or are you his son? I have no issues with mike outside of the video posted because it 100% paints a false expectation for the end user. Was this car ever ran at the track as it was when it went on the dyno? If so I would love to know the trap speed. A 2650 is not the right blower on a 100% stock LT4 car, why does a ZR1 get away with it? Because the cam is different and even then most stock ZR1's on 91 (auto) make 600-620 on my dynojet. You can literally watch in the scanner them ping and pull timing the entire pull. I was with my guys that you met at LSfest vegas and in CA when you were running the 6th gen with the 2650 out of the hood, I recall the 6th gen not making boost and you guys were scratching your head as to what the deal was. My shop manager said I bet the jackshaft broke to which someone's response was we have never seen that. Nic and I have been around long enough to know that's not true lol. When we came by later we were told yup the jackshaft broke. I love magnuson and the products no qualms there this isn't me saying they suck or anything of the sorts.

 

Thank you, I appreciate the extra context. Besides cost, I'm struggling to see the downsides with the 2650 now on 91, or later on 93 or flex fuel. Yes, for 25% of the cost I can get the same power on flex fuel, but I don't' care about power I'll have for a year just to lose it when I move. When I get where I'm going maybe I'll be lucky and there will be some e85 stations close to home, if so I'll gladly go flex fuel. Looks at maps of the area vs living and driving around are 2 different things. I'll need to figure it out in person.

Magnuson also recommended Accelerated Racing Solutions in McKinney, which is nearby where we're moving. I'll give them a ring and maybe they know about more stations that are not showing up on the apps and websites. I'll also need a new tune when we move so good to have another local contact.

With all this said, I just spent a decent chunk on the DSC, MGS, Corsa Exhaust, xpipe, CAI, tune and alignment, So not a huge hurry. Seemed like a pulley and re-tune might have yielded some cheap extra power, but that does not seem like the best idea so I'll just hold off. For the time being perhaps I'll focus on some small cooling mods, doesn't seem like I can go wrong with more cooling with the 2650 or not.

I think I'm most disappointed with the "shut up and do what your told" attitude of more than half the tuners I've spoken to in recent months. All I'm doing is posing questions and people expect you to know what they "know" and are not patient or understanding for a lack of experience. As a business owner and lifelong salesman, I'm just flat out confused. I win business with patience and education, I ask questions, listen to an reply then pose solutions. Once there's trust there, then people tend to listen. But that's after the person feels like they were heard. But to each their own.

 

Hi Joe, nope I'm Greg and I raced first for Magnuson with my 2016 Camaro SS and Mike actually tuned my car before I went to work for the in 2018. I did tech support and customer service until March 2020 and I wasn't in Vegas so not sure what happened there. I worked remote and went to a lot of races in the mid west setting up the booths and talking to customers or potential customers. I know you guys have a great reputation and you add a lot to the forum which is appreciated so sometimes we'll disagree but have all the respect in the world for your company. These are some older picks when I had the 2300 but that my old Camaro and Trailer.