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Posted in this forum previously. 15 C7 with 57,000 miles throws this code cruising at highway speeds. Car has pro charger & tune for 2+years, 550 whp. Ran flawlessly prio to throwing code on weekend road trip.
Fired parts cannon at it- replaced everything - cam position sensor, crank position sensor VVT cam phaser, hydraulic solonoid, magnet solenoid everything. Nothing fixed. Broke down took it to dealer who opened a case with GM tech support. They have dealer checking end play in crank suspecting internal wear or other issue causing excessive end play which is allowing reluctor wheel to misalign with crank position sensor.
Symptoms are that car is not commanding timing advance at low rpm. Car runs great at higher rpm high power demands, but at low, there is a slight miss and slightly rough idle due I guess to not enough timing advance, that is tripping CEL.
Any speculation as to the odds the crank end play is the issue? I am dreading throwing $20k at this thing to replace engine, when it runs rather we'll except at idle and low speeds. Seems crazy.
Wow !!…you sure did fire the parts canon !!…your next mistake was taking it to a dealership for diagnosis…dealerships have NO idea on diagnosing their cars…they don’t do scope testing…I’ve been saying it here for years…you need to find a “DIAGNOSTIC SHOP” in your area…not a general repair shop or a dealership…a diagnostic shop will have a scan tool and scope and if they are good will know how to do incylinder pressure analysis…incylinder analysis will tell you definitely if you have a timing issue without having to take the engine apart…if the dealership used this testing they would not have to physically check end play…they only have to look at a waveform…I do this advanced testing and I’m just a DIY’er…LOL !!…I don’t even want to guess what your fix may be. A Tech like Bernie Thompson below is the Tech needed to fix this…best diagnostic tech in the country !!
Posted in this forum previously. 15 C7 with 57,000 miles throws this code cruising at highway speeds. Car has pro charger & tune for 2+years, 550 whp. Ran flawlessly prio to throwing code on weekend road trip.
Fired parts cannon at it- replaced everything - cam position sensor, crank position sensor VVT cam phaser, hydraulic solonoid, magnet solenoid everything. Nothing fixed. Broke down took it to dealer who opened a case with GM tech support. They have dealer checking end play in crank suspecting internal wear or other issue causing excessive end play which is allowing reluctor wheel to misalign with crank position sensor.
Symptoms are that car is not commanding timing advance at low rpm. Car runs great at higher rpm high power demands, but at low, there is a slight miss and slightly rough idle due I guess to not enough timing advance, that is tripping CEL.
Any speculation as to the odds the crank end play is the issue? I am dreading throwing $20k at this thing to replace engine, when it runs rather we'll except at idle and low speeds. Seems crazy.
Thoughts or ideas?
So I'm fucked. Dealer is out of options. GM tech support wants them to now pull the cam and measure bearings. They have replaced the cam phaser, verified it's in time, cam and crank sensors replaced,.crank end play verified in spec. $4000 MORE to pull cam and measure ****. OR $18k to replace the engine. This thing is essentially totaled. I plan to take all performance stuff off and see if CarMax or carvana will buy it with the CEL. I'm broken hearted. I loved this car. California has basically run all the tuner guys out of business so in Northern California anyway it seems I am out of options. $4000 and no answers, no diagnosis no nothing. I am beyond devastated.
Dealerships as I have said do not diagnose...they replace parts...your tuner doesn't know how to diagnose cars...they tune cars...find yourself a shop that knows how to use a scope...ask the dealership after they replaced the cam/crank sensors if they verified it's operation with a scope and looked at the cam/crank waveform and compared yours to a known good...they didn't because they don't use scopes...there can be an electrical issue with any of the sensors that were replaced...good luck !!
I don't really understand what the cam bearings have to do with this particular situation. I personally dealt with this issue. In my particular case I found that where the connector on the driver side of the timing cover that joins to the rest of the harness had corrosion inside of it. The corrosion wasn't visible by disconnecting it. I had to disassemble the connector and inside I found it. This was causing that fault in my case. I cleaned each individual pin and the plastic. After I reassembled and that solved my issue. It took a lot of electrical tracing to get to that point but by testing between the ecm and the connector to the cam position sensor I was able to isolate it. I really doubt you have a mechanical issue. Most likely it is electrical.
I will check the the wiring harness connectors at the cam position sensor.
Any advice on a shop in Northern California that can help me? I love this car and don't really want to dump it for salvage price, especially since I just paid it off.
Dealer suggested the pro charger that had been on it damaged internals. The car runs generally great - drove it back and forth to the dealership that worked on it two round trips of 150 miles each way, plus been driving it for the last 4-5 months since this code tripped the first time.
Dealer even suggested a new engine but couldn't even guarantee that.
If your "checking" of the CMP wiring harness is visual well that's not good enough...the sensors are 3 wire Hall Effect sensors...a 5 or 12 volt reference...yours is 5 volts...a signal and a ground...now you can check the 5 volt ref and ground and checking ground is done with a 12 volt test light connected to battery positive and probing the CMP brown wire...or can be done with a DVOM…should be less than 100mv’s with engine running…the 5 volt ref is Gray/Light Blue...to check the signal without a scope the best thing is to check for continuity between the sensor and the ECM...you don't have any CMP DTC's so I think that's probably not the issue...you can also do a “frequency test” if your DVOM has that setting…back probe the signal wire at the ECM or at the sensor…as RPM increases your frequency will increase…now you said you changed the camshaft position actuator solenoid but did you check the wiring to it...just 2 wires...power and a low ref (ground)..if your DVOM (Fluke DVOM) can show “duty cycle” the duty cycle should increase with RPM…normally when you have a mechanical issue such as a skipped tooth on the chain or slack or a reluctor wheel issue the timing is normally retarded and never advanced...like I had said you really need to put a scope on this thing and check the cam/crank relationship
…I see a Martins Integrity Auto Diagnostics and Repair in West Sacramento...give them a call and ask if they use a SCOPE in their diagnostics…they should if they call their shop a "diagnostic" one...to me if they use a scan tool that's not a diagnostic shop..ALL shops should be using a scan tool AND a scope without exception…if the shop has diagnostic equipment like I use in my picture below they are “loaded for bear”…my scope is my #1 diagnostic tool…LOL
!!…Does your scan tool have bi directional capability ??...if so that can help you diagnose the car. 2 part Video below that's pretty good...a scope was most helpful in the diagnosis…BTW, did you use OEM sensors when they were replaced ??…anything that has the word sensor in it on a Corvette should be OEM if replaced !!…I’ve seen too many bad new parts being installed on this Forum and for myself personally especially electrical components.
Exactly as c5 diag states is what needs to happen. I may have over simplified what I had to do in my explanation of how I found the corrosion. It wasn’t t by just “looking.” It was by using a DVOM and running through the wiring isolating where there seemed to be an issue.
Exactly as c5 diag states is what needs to happen. I may have over simplified what I had to do in my explanation of how I found the corrosion. It wasn’t t by just “looking.” It was by using a DVOM and running through the wiring isolating where there seemed to be an issue.
EXACTLY !!…diagnosing isn’t just reading a code and changing that part…way more difficult than that…a lot of time and research to find these issues…something a dealership isn’t equipped to do or want to do !!
EXACTLY !!…diagnosing isn’t just reading a code and changing that part…way more difficult than that…a lot of time and research to find these issues…something a dealership isn’t equipped to do or want to do !!
The crazy part is this is mostly true. Some dealerships are equipped but even fewer people are knowledgeable enough to use what’s available to them. I actually work in the service department at a dealership (Volkswagen) and we have the knowledge and abilities. We also apply them when many stores won’t. We get sent cars from other vw’s throughout the state by the manufacturer because of this. You may be able to find a Chevy dealer that operates the same but it’s few and far between. As mentioned by c5 if there is a specialty diagnostic shop even remotely close to you that would be the best fit.
The crazy part is this is mostly true. Some dealerships are equipped but even fewer people are knowledgeable enough to use what’s available to them. I actually work in the service department at a dealership (Volkswagen) and we have the knowledge and abilities. We also apply them when many stores won’t. We get sent cars from other vw’s throughout the state by the manufacturer because of this. You may be able to find a Chevy dealer that operates the same but it’s few and far between. As mentioned by c5 if there is a specialty diagnostic shop even remotely close to you that would be the best fit.
Are you Tech ??...if so do you guys use scopes on a daily basis ??
Are you Tech ??...if so do you guys use scopes on a daily basis ??
I run the service department but we do use scopes. It’s not on a daily basis. Tbh probably not even on a monthly basis. Really only when necessary. We have a lot of cool tech and tools available to us which is nice.
I run the service department but we do use scopes. It’s not on a daily basis. Tbh probably not even on a monthly basis. Really only when necessary. We have a lot of cool tech and tools available to us which is nice.
Wow !!…I use my scope on about 90% of the cars I look at…if it’s a MAF DTC for instance the scope is on it !!…you HAVE to verify it’s not an electrical issue…on anything ignition related it’s automatic…I don’t want to guess if it’s a plug, plug wire, or coil pack..try to get it right on the first shot.
Wow !!…I use my scope on about 90% of the cars I look at…if it’s a MAF DTC for instance the scope is on it !!…you HAVE to verify it’s not an electrical issue…on anything ignition related it’s automatic…I don’t want to guess if it’s a plug, plug wire, or coil pack..try to get it right on the first shot.
A lot of our stuff is coil on plug but we can usually narrow it down pretty quickly depending on the situation without the need for a scope. There are situations where we need that but the VW's give us a lot of information just with our factory scan tool and the test plans are pretty good. We do run into electrical issues but our harnesses are pretty accessible and have other tools that are pretty cool when it comes to that too.
Posted in this forum previously. 15 C7 with 57,000 miles throws this code cruising at highway speeds. Car has pro charger & tune for 2+years, 550 whp. Ran flawlessly prio to throwing code on weekend road trip.
Fired parts cannon at it- replaced everything - cam position sensor, crank position sensor VVT cam phaser, hydraulic solonoid, magnet solenoid everything. Nothing fixed. Broke down took it to dealer who opened a case with GM tech support. They have dealer checking end play in crank suspecting internal wear or other issue causing excessive end play which is allowing reluctor wheel to misalign with crank position sensor.
Symptoms are that car is not commanding timing advance at low rpm. Car runs great at higher rpm high power demands, but at low, there is a slight miss and slightly rough idle due I guess to not enough timing advance, that is tripping CEL.
Any speculation as to the odds the crank end play is the issue? I am dreading throwing $20k at this thing to replace engine, when it runs rather we'll except at idle and low speeds. Seems crazy.
08-25-2022, 11:44 PM
P0016 crank cam coorelation death code
